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  #61  
Old 04.01.2015, 20:11
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Re: Urologist for Vasectomy

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Did you even look at the post you quoted, or just saw a picture of a eunuch and decided to take offence?

I despair for this forum sometimes.
Castration (voluntary or not) and vasectomy aren't even close to being the same thing.

Or has you knowledge of the English language dropped a few levels recently?

Tom
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Old 04.01.2015, 20:14
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Re: Urologist for Vasectomy

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Castration (voluntary or not) and vasectomy aren't even close to being the same thing.
Gosh, it's a good job we have experts like you to help us, isn't it?

Really, people, use your frickin brains!
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  #63  
Old 04.01.2015, 20:23
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Re: Urologist for Vasectomy

Some things are just no funny, however you put it, sorry. Would you make sick jokes on this thread about female genital mutilation of young girls? for instance?

Over and out.
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  #64  
Old 04.01.2015, 20:35
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Re: Urologist for Vasectomy

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Some things are just no funny, however you put it, sorry. Would you make sick jokes on this thread about female genital mutilation of young girls? for instance?

Over and out.
You know what? If it upsets po-faced guardian readers and halfwitted offence seekers, I very well might.
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  #65  
Old 04.01.2015, 20:51
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Re: Urologist for Vasectomy

Well, leave it at that. Perhaps says more about you than the elusive Grauniad reader, though.
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Old 04.01.2015, 21:01
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Re: Urologist for Vasectomy

Do you have vasa deferentia?

Check your privilege! This is a "safe space" for people with vasa deferentia!
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  #67  
Old 04.01.2015, 21:05
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Re: Urologist for Vasectomy

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But I just read your sentence the opposite way round in my head - "only real women / those comfortable with their sexuality can happily consider getting their tubes tied" - and I think you'd agree that that's nonsense. Do I need to be more comfortable with my sexuality to get my tubes tied than I do to get an IUD fitted? More comfortable with my sexuality to get my tubes tied than to take the pill? I don't get the connection.
Well, there is no pill for men, and for may women it's a problem.

Same with IUD.

Comparing a vasectomy to tubal ligation is idiotic, I know that you are more intelligent than to do such a thing, so why?

One is out-patient surgery, the other is major (though less so when done after a birth).

Tom
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  #68  
Old 04.01.2015, 21:14
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Re: Urologist for Vasectomy

Is it Swiss "missing the point" day today?
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Old 04.01.2015, 21:18
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Re: Urologist for Vasectomy

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Is it Swiss "missing the point" day today?
Isn't that every day?
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Old 04.01.2015, 21:20
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Re: Urologist for Vasectomy

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Well, there is no pill for men, and for may women it's a problem.

Same with IUD.

Comparing a vasectomy to tubal ligation is idiotic, I know that you are more intelligent than to do such a thing, so why?

One is out-patient surgery, the other is major (though less so when done after a birth).

Tom
I think you've missed my point pretty comprehensively. It's that my sexuality - and my level of comfort with my sexuality - has nothing to do with which kind of birth control my partner and I use, any more than it has to do with what we eat for breakfast.

Again: It doesn't "take a real man" or a "real woman" to opt for some particular form of birth control instead of another form. Those two things are not linked.
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Old 04.01.2015, 21:22
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Re: Urologist for Vasectomy

Indeed totally different. And having an IUD or take the pill are not permanent and irreversible, are they?!

It's also a question of sharing and fairness in a couple- a man cannot choose to take over the child bearing and birth- and therefore many men- having seen what their partners went through (and of course some births are more traumatic than others to witness)- will say, as mine did 'You've done your bit, thanks- my turn for a little bit of inconvenience, especially as it would be much more dangerous for you to do so'. Not saying all should react this way- but I was mighty proud mine did- and it did really make us stronger as a couple.

I was still quite young- and the thought of worrying about contraception, the inconvenience, and the dangers of the pill or IUD- for another 25+ years, didn't bear thinking about. We discussed all eventualities and decided we would never attempt to 'replace' a child if ever disaster struck- nor have more children should anything happen to either of us, for all sorts of reasons. I have to say, I do wonder how I would have felt if he had said 'tell you what, you've ahd so many serious ops in last few years and so many major anesthetics, you might as well have another one and be done with it. You don't mind luv, do you?' - great I married the right man, pheeew.

Posts crossed MN- and I totally disagre with you on this one. Making a permanent decision about child-bearing has an awful lot to do with one's sexuality and how secure one is with the decision. Not relevant, i agree, with choosing the pill versus IUD, etc.
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  #72  
Old 04.01.2015, 21:32
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Re: Urologist for Vasectomy

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Posts crossed MN- and I totally disagre with you on this one. Making a permanent decision about child-bearing has an awful lot to do with one's sexuality and how secure one is with the decision. Not relevant, i agree, with choosing the pill versus IUD, etc.
OK, try this for size, and see if you can finally see the point:

Only real women have babies.

Can you understand why some people might take issue with your suggestion that "only real men" have vasectomies?
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  #73  
Old 04.01.2015, 21:37
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Re: Urologist for Vasectomy

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Vasectomy is a ( generally) irreversible method of contraception.
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It is the information a doctor will give you when carrying out the procedure.

They may be reversible but it is by no means guaranteed and is much more complicated than the initial procedure. Nobody should consider a vasectomy as a temporary means of contraception even if the successful reversal rate has improved over the years. No competent doctor will ever recommend a vasectomy unless the person is absolutely sure that they don't want more children.

The longer ago the procedure was carried out the lower the chances of a reversal being successful.
So it is a reversible procedure, so your first post was shit information.

A doctor will tell you it is reversible but he will also tell you that it is not guaranteed to work, however the percentage of it working is higher than it not working and he will give you his verdict on the %.

What did your doc say to you when you had yours done?
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  #74  
Old 04.01.2015, 21:58
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Re: Urologist for Vasectomy

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Posts crossed MN- and I totally disagre with you on this one. Making a permanent decision about child-bearing has an awful lot to do with one's sexuality and how secure one is with the decision. Not relevant, i agree, with choosing the pill versus IUD, etc.
No. No, it doesn't. Or shouldn't. Not in this day and age.

Isn't that the whole point of reliable birth control? For the first time ever in human history it's possible to disentangle sexuality and procreation... and now you want to keep those wires crossed unnecessarily.

Wanting to be a parent, or wanting not to be a parent, has nothing to do with sexuality. We agree on this much, right?? People who don't want children aren't in any way more or less "real", more or less comfortable in their sexuality, than people who do.

So wanting not to be a parent is not a sexual decision. You can decide that, and be confident in your decision, while being either comfortable or uncomfortable with your own sexuality. You don't have to be peculiarly "comfortable in your sexuality" (whatever that even means, I've typed it so often it's starting to look like gibberish!) in order to be confident that you don't want any/more kids, not now not ever.

Look, I get what you're saying, that to previous generations, where procreation was accepted as the rightful purpose of men and women, a vasectomy could have been - at least in some circles - seen as emasculating. That a man was valued by his ability to father children (and tough luck for the infertile, the homosexual or the unphiloprogenitive). But the way to counter one set of outdated stereotypes is to counter them, not to raise up an opposite set that's just as unfair.
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Old 04.01.2015, 22:01
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Re: Urologist for Vasectomy

no need for anyone to apologize. I'm secure with my decision and just wanted to maybe help others who are contemplating this. I initially started this thread looking for a recommendation and since I am pleased with the result felt it only fair to provide one myself.

We actually read a lot of first hand accounts. What's crazy to my GF is that some women, despite encouraging their spouse to go through with it so they can be done with birth control once and for all, suddenly found themselves turned off post-op due to their man no longer being able procreate. but that is not a physical response, there is nothing different -it doesn't look different, doesn't feel different, how you perceive it is up to you really.

The men I know who have had it done are very happy with it and do not feel any less masculine as a result. From an anatomical perspective there is no question of masculinity or sexuality behind the decision. It is a rational decision made by 1 or 2 mature and rational people. The only time sexuality or masculinity enters into it is when the person considering it allows it to. For us it was a practical thing to do. If someone is struggling mentally with their sexuality or masculinity, being snipped or having penis enlargement/testicle implant surgery is not going to help them. the problem is in their head. the bigger one, not the one between their legs.

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When the decision was made, the surgeon told us that the only men who he was aware of had had psychological issues after vasectomy (and he was on an international research panel) were those who were insecure in their own sexuality or with poor self-esteem, often macho types, and who felt psychologically emasculated by it, despite the fact that it made no difference whatsoever to their physical ability to 'perform'. The majority of men who have seen their wives go through difficult childbirth, and experienced the joys, but also exhaustion and difficulties of their childrens' upbringing- felt a real surge os sexuality- freed from the worry about future pregnancies, and so did their wives. We certainly did Lots and lots of research and publications confirming this.

Again, apologies Backtoch- and well done to both of you. Over and out.
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  #76  
Old 04.01.2015, 22:24
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Re: Urologist for Vasectomy

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So it is a reversible procedure, so your first post was shit information.

A doctor will tell you it is reversible but he will also tell you that it is not guaranteed to work, however the percentage of it working is higher than it not working and he will give you his verdict on the %.

What did your doc say to you when you had yours done?
Nope because I didn't say it wasn't irreversible even in my first post but it us generally considered to be the case. My post was realistic.

I know people who've had successful reversals and others who haven't and nobody should have a vasectomy based on the premise that it's reversible because there's a good chance it won't be.

What did the doc tell you when you had yours done?
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Old 04.01.2015, 23:38
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Re: Urologist for Vasectomy

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I'll take your word for it, didn't even get a chance to view the thread.
I was the first to answered DB's thread and I can assure you nothing was made as trolling. He just wrote a single sentence mentioning the split with this thread to start a conversation on the real man thing or not. That's all.

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Since Nil got away with it - I'll also have a go - a real parent is one who absolutely does not cut or sexually abuse any child and certainly not their own. A real woman and a real man are evolved enough persons to decide for themselves what exactly the definition of either of those terms are.
Why the hell do you put me into this? What's the connection with me?
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Old 04.01.2015, 23:50
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Re: Urologist for Vasectomy

@MathNut Reading you is like taking an intelligent well-structured class !


Back on topic
There's a very big difference between not wanting children and not being able to give life.

I couldn't figure out why this thread irritated me this morning..
A decade + ago in my early thirties, due to a medical emergency, I lost the very cherished ability to create life. I remember waking up and thinking: I'm useless.
It didn't matter in the least that I was already very busy with my son and wasn't thinking of having another child, it was the fact that I no longer could. The loss of potential maternity seemed to obliterate sexiness, femininity and self-image.

I can only guess that a man might feel the same about his masculinity.
Even if it's voluntary it really is not a light decision. A person feels different.
Nature wires us to procreate, it's visceral.
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Old 04.01.2015, 23:53
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Re: Urologist for Vasectomy

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Even if it's voluntary it really is not a light decision. A person feels different.
Nature wires us to procreate, it's visceral.
Like giving up my US citizenship, it was one of the happiest days of my life.

Neither eliminated problems, but both eliminated the problem of future problems.

Tom
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Old 04.01.2015, 23:55
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Re: Urologist for Vasectomy

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What's crazy to my GF is that some women, despite encouraging their spouse to go through with it so they can be done with birth control once and for all, suddenly found themselves turned off post-op due to their man no longer being able procreate.
My GF's big question (now wife) was whether it affected the taste.

Tom
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