Hi all

I currently live in Sweden, but might relocate to Zurich within short.
If I make, say, 150 000 chf per year, would that be sufficient to support the entire family and a "normal" middle class lifestyle including weekend trips and holidays?

My apologies if being vague when asking, but the reason why I have to ask is this:

* In Sweden, a household will most definitely need two incomes to support a decent middle class life. Even if the husband is well paid, it wouldn't be enough to support the wife staying at home with the kids (after the maternity days are all used, that is!)

* Exceptions to the rule exist, but they aren't very common.

* Of course if a family is willing to make significant sacrifices regarding their lifestyle, it can be done

* Leaving your children in a day-care center from the age of 1 is not at all unusual, and is pretty much a necessity to "make the wheels go around" for a normal middle class family.

Maybe I should have use the term "upper middle class" throughout this post if that makes sense...I suppose many of you would understand the point I'm trying to make.

Thanks for all comments and advise.
Really great forum, by the way.

All the best
veggur

Yes. The median salary in Switzerland is about 75'000 CHF.

Yes, but please don't forget that these people are upper-middle class. You can't possibly compare them to the median!

'Kindercrippe' (Kindergarten) will cost you about 2100chf per month, some places charge just 80% for the second child etc.. So besides your rental of a place to live, this could be one of your biggest expenses.

Edit: The norm here is that the Wife does stay at home with the kids. This is changing but slowly. For example, kids are expected to go home for lunch etc.. By Law local Gemeinde's will have to provide supervised lunches and possibly before and after school supervision. I don't have all the details but maybe someone here can clarify this.

You can live quite well with 150K and a family if you know you
to live within your means.

If you send your children to international schools, eat out every night, drive a Porsche, etc., then 150K will not suffice.

If you live a normal live, then you will have a nice apartment, nice car,
eat out occasionally, and have your vacations on the Cote d'Azur.

[QUOTE=veggur;199665]Hi all

I guess with 150k, you could comfortably support your family. I earn 50k less than that, and we have a relatively decent life. It would make a great difference where you live as well. In Geneva or Zurich, living costs are much higher than smaller towns like Aigle or Sion or Monthey.
The key would be proper financial planning and you would be fine.
Good luck,
Dan

Doesn't Sweden have one of the highest tax rates/social security deductions in Europe? Maybe that has something to do with it?

This is all very confusing. Someone should develop a budget estimator to establish the kind of lifestyle you wish or have, and whether such a thing is achievable for a particular salary. Talking about middle-upper and lower-middle class doesn't help much.

RtHon Col Lord DaveA Flame-Retardant

You're right. And yes - of course it has a lot to do with the dual income question.

One of the persons replied "the norm here is still that the wife stays at home" ... This is amongst the thing I am trying to sort out when asking questions.

Thanks for taking the time to answer.

- veggur

Could we develop a new indicator for each forum user so that along with the user name, reputation, number of posts, location, thanks and groans, we can also see which social class they belong to? It would certainly make my life easier since as a general rule I like to avoid the working classes!

Vive La Revolution!

Like I said in my first post, my apologies if asking vague questions that could have many potential outcomes.

An excellent answer to to my question was "the norm is that the wife stays at home, but it is changing"...

another would be "no, that is not very common at all, if you want to drive a relatively new and comfortable family car and have a freshly renovated kitchen, then you'd most definitely need two incomes."

Then exactly how much financial freedom you get from 150 000 chf per year is of course up to each family.

- veggur

Don't worry, you should get by pretty good on 150,000 a year with a family (taxes are much lower here than in Sweden) but of course there are other things to consider like just how materialistic are the wife and kids..

As has been said - it ALL depends on where you'll be living. If you're looking for an apartment IN Zurich for the family (I'm assuming 2 children) you'll need a 4.5 - 5 room flat (3 bedrooms, living/dining room, maybe a study/guestroom). That'll cost you anywhere between CHF 2'500 to 3'500 per month, depending on standard & area. Outside of Zurich, but within acceptable commuting distance is probably about 10%-15% less. Feeding a family of 4 with more than just spaghetti will put you back another approx. CHF 300/350 per week (that's CHF 12/person/day... not a lot!). Otherwise, I can imagine that general costs (clothes, household goods etc.) will be similar to Sweden. I'd say that 150K for a family is good, but not exorbitant.

Thank you for identifying a good answer for me, that's not at all patronising. Why don't you put it as detail in the question ?

What you have to realise is these discussions have occurred many,many, many times on the forum, and you would be well advised either to provide a lot more detail about your circumstances or to spend more time searching the forum archives.

dave

Lots of wives stay home, and that is a big salary, I would think 120,000 would be a comfortable life if you don't want the biggest car or the biggest television etc.
Have a look at the house prices for rent, and then work out what you will have left, if its over 4000 then you will be very comfortably off.

chuckle not sure if I should read that, Retired, or Retarded?

I honestly knew that when I typed it that someone would ask that. You win the special prize.

dave

Dave,
I was merely trying to explain what I was trying to sort out in my question, I really didn't mean to be rude.

Prior to the post, I searched the forums. I found many posts about salaries but no one regarding the single income vs dual income questions that I would like to know about. And like I already said, I do not expect anybody to calculate my monthly budget by providing more details about my spending habits and preferences. In fact, that would be both rude and lazy.

Regards,
veggur

I believe that 150000 CHF should fit well enough in the upper-middle class category in Switzerland. So one such income should be enough to support the entire family.
Taxes are calculeted on the family income and in your case you will recieve brutto salary (since you are above 120000) and at the end of the year you will have make declaration and probably will have possibility to make some deductions.
In your case if you want to have higher quality life it would be much better to try to buy a property (appartment or house), if you can come up with initial deposit of 20%, than to pay a rent of 2000-3000 CHF (of course if you plan to stay here for longer time).
Just renting for such amount is a big expense without any return.