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  #41  
Old 09.02.2015, 22:09
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Re: Separation with a baby

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Reread the OP's first post then. Isn't "fighting all the time" (I hope only arguing ) a form of emotional abuse? During the time of hormonal adjustment in a new mom, it can be ever more stressful.

In any case, the OP has to know all her options so she can make an informed decision.
If arguing as parents is emotional abuse the whole world would be in the dock!!
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  #42  
Old 09.02.2015, 22:09
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Re: Separation with a baby

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On behalf of adoptive parents everywhere: yes.
Yes, forgive my choice of wording, it is not a slur on adoptive parents. Adoptive parents seek a child to love and cherish.


A single mother finds a boyfriend, marries him - or settles with him - he does not particularly want a child, he wants the mother. Mother finds herself (possibly) "obeying" him or deferring to him in the care of her child - to the detriment of the child. The child is simply an "attachement" of the mother. Not his own child.


NOT the same as adoptive parents!


I hope you can understand what I`m trying to say here.
  #43  
Old 09.02.2015, 22:18
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Re: Separation with a baby

OP, the lawyer's choice of words, assuming you've quoted correctly, is misleading. Yes, Switzerland now has joint custody except in special cases. But that doesn't mean he can do what he likes - nor can you. What it means is that major decisions regarding the child have to be made with the agreement of both parents. So yes, you cannot just up and leave the country - nor can he with the child. But you can go to court to set up things like visitation rights with him, maintenance payments, etc.

There's more here:

https://www.ch.ch/en/divorce-parental-authority
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  #44  
Old 09.02.2015, 22:26
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Re: Separation with a baby

The OP says (or said) that they aren't married, so I am not sure to what extent Swiss divorce law necessarily applies.

edit: found a more applicable link:
https://www.ch.ch/en/parental-author...rried-parents/
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Old 09.02.2015, 22:26
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Re: Separation with a baby

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You seem to be a little manipulative and who breast feeds babies until 2 years old in the developed world ?
More people than you might think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRqGXS6RmKs

It seems to be a growing trend.
  #46  
Old 09.02.2015, 22:27
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Re: Separation with a baby

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who breast feeds babies until 2 years old in the developed world ?
Me!
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  #47  
Old 09.02.2015, 22:32
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Re: Separation with a baby

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OP, completely editing your original post has rendered this thread completely confusing, except for the fact that it has been quoted by smoky in post #16.

If you don't want your question to be here, you should ask the moderators to delete the thread rather than obliterating the original post.
OP's original words have been restored and the thread will stay open for a bit. Please share helpful advice and links - both to assist this OP and anyone in the future who doesn't understand how custody arrangements work in Switzerland. Keep in mind not all our members speak English as a first language. Thanks.
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  #48  
Old 09.02.2015, 22:34
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Re: Separation with a baby

"I didn't want to debate my situation, just to have some legal advice or numbers I could call for that purpose."

mundoplath, if you are still reading this thread, you could try:
https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/sd/de/i...a/english.html
(advice for immigrants, including legal advice - a service provided by the City of Zurich)

https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/sd/de/i...r/english.html
(advice for mothers and fathers of babies and small children - a service provided by the City of Zurich)

https://www.zav.ch/en/fuer-rechtssuc...tsstellen.html
(free legal advice - a service provided by the Zurich Bar Association)

I expect that, if you approach any of these three services, you will be asked many of the questions you've been asked on this thread, and probably encounter some of the same challenging views, or even perhaps be interviewed to see whether you understand the consequences of any choices you make, and maybe questioned to see how much you can contribute to the best interests of your child.

Even though you have read many responses on this thread which felt unhelpful or unfriendly to you, I hope you can see that by knowing that such varied views do exist in the world, (including the opinions you don't like, or don't agree with) you can be better prepared for the conversations you are most likely to have in such an advice centre (and/or later in court).

In all legal matters with regard to divorce, separation, custody, rights of access to the child, maintenance payments, etc., etc., the prime focus in Switzerland is always The Best Interests Of The Child.... even if this is to the personal disadvantage of the mother or to the personal disadvantage the father.

That's a perspective that is not upheld in the legal system of all countries, and is a relatively recent paradigm shift in Switzerland. Every step you take, every move the father of your child makes, the authorities will be watching you... to ensure that both you and he are doing the best for the child. It's a very serious responsibility.

As some others have said, if you might be
a) perhaps suffering from any form of post-natal depression, or
b) healthy, but simply exhausted from caring for your baby, as many mothers feel,
and especially if you and your baby are not in danger (only you know that)
then I'd suggest you try to find ways to get more sleep, more rest.

I mean this in the sense that everything you enquire about, and everything you decide, will be done by you (and the father of your child) more clearly, if you are not exhausted and frazzled.

Sometimes churches, or neighbourhood help organisations http://www.nachbarschaftshilfe.ch/
can find a volunteer who might come to your home to cook a meal, or do a load of laundry, and entertain Baby, while you can finally lie down on the sofa and rest.
Also http://www.lotse.zh.ch/service/detail/500074

Of course, I don't know your situation at all, and I don't know how you are feeling, nor anything about your health, so I am not claiming or implying anything about you, okay? It is just a fairly common circumstance for any mother of a baby to feel worn out from trying to do the right thing, and trying to juggle shopping, feeding, cleaning, etc. The father of the child might be feeling that way, too, especially if he (and/or you) is/are also working, as in employed for money. That's why I'd advise... as I guess I would for anyone who is fed up with, or overstretched by their present situation, to make sure you get enough rest, enough sleep, and enough nourishment, and some fresh air, before you take your very big decisions.

I hope that some of these ideas or links help you!
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  #49  
Old 09.02.2015, 22:41
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Re: Separation with a baby

Even though it seems daunting, it is often better for a couple to separate if things are this bad rather than stay together in a toxic situation.

The baby can sense negativity and his / her development could be affected if there is a bad relationship between the parents.

50 / 50 custody is not likely to hurt the child unless one of the environments (mom or dad's house) is not healthy.
  #50  
Old 09.02.2015, 22:41
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Re: Separation with a baby

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Me!
And me
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  #51  
Old 09.02.2015, 22:45
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Re: Separation with a baby

Once again.. huge amount of misinformation because most posters don't appear to know the difference between custody (i.e. the legal 'responsibility' for the child.. from 2014 set at 50/50 as per most of EU) and primary care and visitation (i.e. where the child lives) ... to be discussed between the parents and.. if no agreement is reached.. decided by the court..
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Old 09.02.2015, 22:52
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Re: Separation with a baby

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Hello there, I would like to have some advice about my rights here in Switzerland.
I went to a lawyer, a woman, to ask for legal advice and she told me that with the new law approved in June 2014, I basically cannot leave the country and the father can do whatever he wants (like 50% custody, which would be devastating for such a young baby that co sleeps with mama and still breastfeeds a lot throughout the day). Is that true? No protection for the mama and the child?
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I didn't want to debate my situation, just to have some legal advice or numbers I could call for that purpose.
Maybe you don't agree with the laws here, but you have had legal advice.
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  #53  
Old 09.02.2015, 22:53
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Re: Separation with a baby

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Please, can any moderator delete this thread? I give up with trying to find cheerful comments in this community.
It seems to me that by 'cheerful comments' you mean ones that agree with your opinions. If you ask a question on a public forum you are bound to get a range of different opinions. There is some useful advice quoted. It would be best if you took time to read all of the replies again and consider all of the options and potential outcomes for each of them.

As Odile said, unless violence is involved, try to resolve your differences with your partner so that your baby can grow up in a stable family relationship.
  #54  
Old 09.02.2015, 23:10
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Re: Separation with a baby

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Once again.. huge amount of misinformation because most posters don't appear to know the difference between custody (i.e. the legal 'responsibility' for the child.. from 2014 set at 50/50 as per most of EU) and primary care and visitation (i.e. where the child lives) ... to be discussed between the parents and.. if no agreement is reached.. decided by the court..


ipoddle, yes, I'm sure you are right that many people don't know the difference, nor the legal distinctions.... are you able to post links, please, setting out the situation in Switzerland?
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Old 09.02.2015, 23:18
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Re: Separation with a baby

The 50/50 % can be on several models. The child can have its main living quarters at one of the parents, of share, either half the week at one, and half at other, or for longer periods at one then the other. But it has to be agreed with both parents- or a Judge will decide with the best interest of the child at heart.

Above the short version of this link, in French:

La garde de l’enfant (articles 133 CCS, 273 CCS)

Dans le cadre d’une procédure en divorce mais également dans le cadre d’une séparation de corps ou lors de mesures protectrices de l’union conjugale, il faudra déterminer où et avec qui va vivre l’enfant mineur. En principe, s’il y a plusieurs enfants, ils ne devront pas être séparés. Signalons ici que la requête commune et la convention de divorce ou de séparation est toujours transmise au service de la protection de la jeunesse (service de la protection des mineurs) qui vérifiera que le bien des enfants est préservé.
Dans la plupart des familles, les parents décident que seul l’un d’eux aura la garde des enfants. Cela signifie que l’autre parent bénéficiera quant à lui d’un droit de visite. Toutefois, il est possible, à certaines conditions et pour autant que les parents le souhaitent, de choisir une garde partagée ou alternée (article 298a CCS). Cela signifie que l’enfant habitera chez chacun de ses parents, de façon alternée.
Dans tous les cas, il faudra déterminer le domicile de l’enfant. Le domicile de l’enfant est le lieu de domicile du parent qui a la garde. Dans le cadre d’une garde alternée il est nécessaire que les père et mère déterminent le lieu de domicile de l’enfant. Il faudra donc choisir chez qui l’enfant aura son domicile au sens légal.

Garde attribuée à un seul parent :


Les père et mère choisissent d’attribuer la garde soit à la mère, soit au père. Ce choix dépend de la situation personnelle et professionnelle des parents, de l’âge de l'enfant et d’autres critères encore. L’essentiel est que le bien et l’intérêt de l'enfant soit pris en compte. Rappelons que l’enfant peut à ce titre être entendu. Lorsque l'enfant est en bas âge, les parents conviennent dans la majorité des cas que la garde est attribuée à la mère qui est considérée comme le parent le plus à même de s’occuper de l'enfant. Signalons toutefois qu’aujourd’hui, dans certaines situations, les parents choisissent d’attribuer la garde au père qui peut être le parent le plus disponible par exemple. Dans tous les cas, le juge du divorce vérifiera que le choix des parents est conforme à l’intérêt et au bien de l’enfant.

La garde partagée ou alternée :


L’enfant va vivre alternativement chez les deux parents, par exemple, une semaine sur deux chez chacun de ses parents ou encore du dimanche au mercredi chez l’un et du mercredi au dimanche chez l’autre. La répartition du temps de garde peut être diverse et fonction de la disponibilité des père et mère. Ce type de garde est concevable dans des situations particulières et exige qu’un certain nombre de conditions soient remplies. Les parents doivent conserver une excellente communication, avoir des domiciles suffisamment proches pour que l’enfant puisse se rendre par exemple à l’école sans grandes difficultés. Les père et mère doivent également être en mesure d’avoir une disponibilité égale et ont l'obligation de déterminer de manière claire et précise la répartition des frais concernant l’ enfant. Le juge vérifiera que le choix des parents est conforme à l’intérêt de l’enfant et que la convention de divorce ou de séparation règle de manière claire et précise l’organisation de ce type de garde ainsi que la prise en charge et la répartition des frais. L’expérience montre que si la garde alternée peut être idéale dans certaines situations, elle implique toutefois un large investissement de la part des père et mère, tant au niveau de la disponibilité en temps que pour l’aspect financier. Signalons ici que la notion du bien de l’enfant joue un rôle primordial dans le choix de ce type de garde. On a pu constater que l’enfant peut subir une pression due aux aller et retour et doit s’organiser de semaine en semaine, ce qui implique pour lui une lourde responsabilité.

Last edited by Odile; 09.02.2015 at 23:37.
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Old 09.02.2015, 23:29
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Re: Separation with a baby

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Bye, bye, you are lovely peaceful and supportive people. Bye.
Oh come on! I understand you are in a very emotional state over this issue and its normal but listen also all the great advices. People here talk from experiences.

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Bullock is a male cow with no dangly bits my dear, bollocks, the word you were looking for is the bits that hang down between rear legs of male cow who has his dangly bits still attached !!
Apple autocorrect for you!
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  #57  
Old 09.02.2015, 23:55
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Re: Separation with a baby

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You seem to be a little manipulative and who breast feeds babies until 2 years old in the developed world ?

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More people than you might think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRqGXS6RmKs

It seems to be a growing trend.
Growing trend ? I breast-feed #2 son until he was two and half.... and that was thirty years ago. Most of my generation were the same, Breast is Best was hammered into expectant mums in the UK in the seventies and I felt a total failure for having to bottle feed #1 son.
Second son latched on okay, but hadn't read the books about weaning so figured he'd just keep on demanding. Or screaming.
And I know which I prefered.
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Old 10.02.2015, 00:19
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Re: Separation with a baby

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Maybe I didn't express myself properly... But, honestly, everyone knows that under 3 years old a baby should live with the mother, for his emotional development. This doesn't mean, of course, that he is not seeing the father. It is very important as well his presence, and their relationship, but these 3 first years are essential for the emotional healthy development of the child. 50% would be too chaotic.. two houses, two different schedule... no way!!!

The father can see the child a lot, of course, but 50% under 3 years old should be forbidden. Attachment theory, Bowlby. The closer the baby is to the mother during his first 3 years, the better for his emotional and psychological resilience.

Swiss law makers don't have a clue about child psychology... and it seems that many of the commenters either. No offense.

I didn't want to debate my situation, just to have some legal advice or numbers I could call for that purpose.
Honestly, you're an idiot.

I've read some amount shit on the net, I have to say that's right up there with the best of it.

Here's some helpful advice, take your selfish head out your ass and realise that your child deserves as much time with its father ad it does with you.
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Old 10.02.2015, 00:42
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Re: Separation with a baby

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Honestly, you're an idiot.

I've read some amount shit on the net, I have to say that's right up there with the best of it.

Here's some helpful advice, take your selfish head out your ass and realise that your child deserves as much time with its father ad it does with you.
So let's all gang up on the OP even though she's apologized and is in a tough situation.

Not cool nor helpful.
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Old 10.02.2015, 00:47
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Re: Separation with a baby

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And somehow, I thought you both were men.

I'll go to bed less stupid tonight.
Roegner, OK, but IM has always clearly been a woman.

Tom
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