Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Family matters/health
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 12.05.2015, 23:44
RTN RTN is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Uetikon am See
Posts: 1,087
Groaned at 11 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,125 Times in 512 Posts
RTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Children beyond discipline-Family crisis

Quote:
View Post
You are dealing with a 5 year old and 8 year old, what do you expect??? As kids myself and my brother were at war for years and yes we used whatever was handy - spades, sand buckets, rules you name it we used it! And then one day it was over and no one knew why. Thats how boys are and yours are far too young to be expected to fall into line like little adults.

In a few years you 5 year old will be old enough to appreciate the situation with his older brother, but for now you just have to accept it. And your 8 old needs a break from the rules and regulations of the day, so go easy on him, let most of it slide and keep one or two absolute musts. Choose the path of least resistance for the moment and in a few years they will be old enough to understand what you are trying to teach them. But for the moment you just got to suck it up.

I have a 17 year old teenager with Asperger's Syndrome and we had similar issues when he was growing. After failing with all the advise gurus, I eventually took the above advice from my grandfather who had raised 13 children! And it worked out fine!
Yep sounds like me and my brother but we had rules of engagement or we got told off or some other punishment. The problem we are having is the older one does not respond or learn from any form of discipline and we have tried a lot. The younger one logically says well it is okay for him, it is okay for me.
Part of the problem lies in the isolation of our family here, when I was growing up you pretty much got the same message from lots of uncles, aunties and grandparents so this would eventually get through to you. Cultral differences as well, in Australia in a group situation the responsible adult is the one closest to the action, here tell someone else's child to chill out and you face the firing squad!!
We will do a family therapy session on Saturday and I will give you feedback on the results of that.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 13.05.2015, 00:12
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 19,355
Groaned at 368 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 22,366 Times in 10,062 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Children beyond discipline-Family crisis

Re your last paragraph, must say I have been wondering whether you would not be better to go back home, where the children may feel more 'at home' speak their own language and where you would have close friends and family support to deal with all this.

Perhaps not what you want to hear and I have been holding this comment back- but as you mention family and extended family support- I thought I should actually vocie this.

Really hope the family session will help you all find ways to survive this and improve your family and personal lives. Bonne chance.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Odile for this useful post:
  #23  
Old 13.05.2015, 00:30
RTN RTN is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Uetikon am See
Posts: 1,087
Groaned at 11 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,125 Times in 512 Posts
RTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Children beyond discipline-Family crisis

Quote:
View Post
Re your last paragraph, must say I have been wondering whether you would not be better to go back home, where the children may feel more 'at home' speak their own language and where you would have close friends and family support to deal with all this.

Perhaps not what you want to hear and I have been holding this comment back- but as you mention family and extended family support- I thought I should actually vocie this.

Really hope the family session will help you all find ways to survive this and improve your family and personal lives. Bonne chance.
I wonder the same thing sometimes and we have discussed it between ourselves quite a lot. The support for treatment and schooling is better here for ADHD than home. But a bigger support group is something we need to work on, my wife has been the primary earner here so she feels she has missed out on a lot (despite working 3 days a week) so is reluctant to give them up. They are now both at the age where sleepovers are not complicated so it is an item we will discuss on the weekend.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 20.05.2015, 20:47
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,466
Groaned at 7 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 2,227 Times in 823 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Children beyond discipline-Family crisis

Quote:
View Post
....
We will do a family therapy session on Saturday and I will give you feedback on the results of that.
How did it go, RTN? Anything useful come from that session?
How are you all doing this week?
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 20.05.2015, 21:06
Longbyt's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 7,307
Groaned at 55 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 10,912 Times in 4,089 Posts
Longbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Children beyond discipline-Family crisis

Quote:
View Post
Part of the problem lies in the isolation of our family here, when I was growing up you pretty much got the same message from lots of uncles, aunties and grandparents so this would eventually get through to you. Cultural differences as well, in Australia in a group situation the responsible adult is the one closest to the action, here tell someone else's child to chill out and you face the firing squad!!
I think you are dead right here. Mum and Dad are just kill-joys who want to prevent the children doing anything they like doing and constantly enforce stupid rules.
When our girls were quite young and went off to stay with their respective Godparents for a few days, they were both quite surprised to find that the o so patient Godmother or Godfather had rules set up too, and they were not so very different from the ones they found so unnecessarily harsh at home. Did them a world of good. We spoke English and German at home, but one Godfather's family was French speaking. The first bit of French that our younger one came home with was 'That's enough of that!'

I hope you find a good solution and tactics which bear fruit. It is very, very hard to be with youngsters who fight constantly.
__________________
Longbyt
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Longbyt for this useful post:
  #26  
Old 20.05.2015, 22:02
MusicChick's Avatar
modified and reprogrammed
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 9,714
Groaned at 87 Times in 70 Posts
Thanked 11,202 Times in 5,565 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Children beyond discipline-Family crisis

It sounds you are absolutely exhausted. I think priority 1st - secure them. Exhaust them. Then one can actually discipline. Provided you have enough energy, I think you guys need an emergency back up and rest first, then focus on treating the boys. Invest in your bond with your partner, it's a reserve you both and the boys recharge from. I work with very agitated kids, for whatever reasons. Rule number one has always been - zero violence tolerance. Occupying them before troubles occur (even if it means running a few kms with them every evening, will do wonders for testosterone too high) and most of all, consistency. I think the little one might really feel ignored, needs tlc. Time the older started to feel responsible for his little brother's wellbeing. Empathy and solidarity are learned, acquired skills.They won't just happen. Kids feeling empathy are less prone to selfish rivalry. Competition is useless, and isn't sought after if kids feel good about themselves (self respect and self worth) without needing to compare themselves with others. Teach them to focus together on making the other one and the parents feel good, instead of themselves. Selfishness is a part of child's perspective, it's natural, but has to be controled when it starts to hurt others. And hang in there, really. Sounds really an emergency, acute situ. Thumbs up for sharing here!
__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H.Pestalozzi

Last edited by MusicChick; 20.05.2015 at 22:16.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
  #27  
Old 04.06.2015, 21:04
CathHarmony's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Best City, Greatest Nation
Posts: 1,301
Groaned at 192 Times in 106 Posts
Thanked 1,072 Times in 591 Posts
CathHarmony has a reputation beyond reputeCathHarmony has a reputation beyond reputeCathHarmony has a reputation beyond reputeCathHarmony has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Children beyond discipline-Family crisis

I do feel for you and your younger son.

Have you tried changing your son with adhd's diet, there seems to be some evidence food can contribute to behavioural problems.

Have you tried exercising them (one or the other) till they are exhausted , so they are too tired to fight? that old saying 'a tired dog is a good dog'.

Hope things get easier, just think how good you will feel when you find a workable solution, I'm sure its out there.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 04.06.2015, 22:23
slammer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lummerland
Posts: 3,657
Groaned at 79 Times in 58 Posts
Thanked 5,773 Times in 2,128 Posts
slammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Children beyond discipline-Family crisis

Quote:
View Post
I do feel for you and your younger son.

Have you tried changing your son with adhd's diet, there seems to be some evidence food can contribute to behavioural problems.

Have you tried exercising them (one or the other) till they are exhausted , so they are too tired to fight? that old saying 'a tired dog is a good dog'.

Hope things get easier, just think how good you will feel when you find a workable solution, I'm sure its out there.
Ha, ha ha ha ha, that one cracked me up, I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that you will be exhausted far, far, and I mean waaaaaay far ahead of the kids.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank slammer for this useful post:
  #29  
Old 04.06.2015, 22:32
CathHarmony's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Best City, Greatest Nation
Posts: 1,301
Groaned at 192 Times in 106 Posts
Thanked 1,072 Times in 591 Posts
CathHarmony has a reputation beyond reputeCathHarmony has a reputation beyond reputeCathHarmony has a reputation beyond reputeCathHarmony has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Children beyond discipline-Family crisis

har har, pity you can't put them on a leash and go for a bike ride (you on an electric bike)
Maybe sit by a pool every evening shouting encouragement, thats not too exhausting
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 05.06.2015, 15:16
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Geneva
Posts: 1,060
Groaned at 15 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 1,243 Times in 551 Posts
neddy has an excellent reputationneddy has an excellent reputationneddy has an excellent reputationneddy has an excellent reputation
Re: Children beyond discipline-Family crisis

Not to mention that exhausted kids behave far worse.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank neddy for this useful post:
  #31  
Old 05.06.2015, 16:48
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 8,970
Groaned at 140 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 12,250 Times in 5,009 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Children beyond discipline-Family crisis

Quote:
View Post
Not to mention that exhausted kids behave far worse.
Not if they're truly exhausted.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 05.06.2015, 16:59
slammer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lummerland
Posts: 3,657
Groaned at 79 Times in 58 Posts
Thanked 5,773 Times in 2,128 Posts
slammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Children beyond discipline-Family crisis

Quote:
View Post
Not if they're truly exhausted.
Probably need a pyramid building scheme, hand crafted by kiddies for that, and then I rather doubt a positive outcome.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 05.06.2015, 18:19
GreenAvocado's Avatar
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Zurich
Posts: 20
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
GreenAvocado has no particular reputation at present
Re: Children beyond discipline-Family crisis

There's a reality-documentary type show on ITV4, called 'Born Naughty'. It's repetitve but interesting and informative about ADHD, autism and other childhood behavioural challenges. It's also available to watch online. The doctors recommended a private space for one child to help calm him down and it seems to have worked.
TV to reality - Separation and acknowledging personal space seems to work very well. I know a child who was very hyperactive, confrontational and attention seeking, but once he was encouraged to build a fort under the dining table his outbursts were significantly reduced and he played happily. The simplicity of the solution is baffling, but it worked. The whole family respected his boundaries - the fort - and he reciprocated by respecting his siblings and parents too. He told them the rules of his fort and they told him the rules of the household....of course, no more dinner at the dining table unless he gives them permission!
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 06.06.2015, 19:03
CathHarmony's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Best City, Greatest Nation
Posts: 1,301
Groaned at 192 Times in 106 Posts
Thanked 1,072 Times in 591 Posts
CathHarmony has a reputation beyond reputeCathHarmony has a reputation beyond reputeCathHarmony has a reputation beyond reputeCathHarmony has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Children beyond discipline-Family crisis

this is interesting, is it possible to cycle to school?

http://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2014/ex...ptoms-in-kids/

Are there any boarding schools that he can be enrolled in that could give you a break, it sounds like you are spending a lot of time firefighting and some free time to come up with a plan of action might help.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 07.06.2015, 12:05
FriendlyKiwi's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Shoppinzentrum
Posts: 1,712
Groaned at 17 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 832 Times in 515 Posts
FriendlyKiwi has a reputation beyond reputeFriendlyKiwi has a reputation beyond reputeFriendlyKiwi has a reputation beyond reputeFriendlyKiwi has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Children beyond discipline-Family crisis

Buy a trampoline (worth the cost)

When the kids fight, send one out to the trampoline to do 100 jumps
Give them different goals: jump - sit - jump - sit, 100 times

Another thing to do is send the battle outside
No wars were ever won inside!

Consider getting one to join a clud, scouts, Cevi, etc.
Or soccer.
Anything to get them out and doing physical exercise

Expending energy through exercise rather than fighting will give double benefits (fitness, tiredness and avoiding the fights)

Plus you get time out.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank FriendlyKiwi for this useful post:
  #36  
Old 08.06.2015, 22:21
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Englisch has no particular reputation at present
Re: Children beyond discipline-Family crisis

Hi RTN,
Your post is rather old but I am new on the forum and looking where I can contribute.
ADHD is often a label doctors put on our children when they are themselves overwhelmed.

There is a wonderful book I recommend on parenting from Aletha Solter who's a Swiss American psychologist with over 20 years of working with children. It is called Attachment Play and she describes many games to play with children that avoid carrot/stick approach. The idea is to enter in a zone where neither you nor your kids are loosing and you build together a very strong relationship.
Likewise, she recommends "crying in arms" which is a way to accompany the child in releasing emotional stress through crying in loving arms.
If you are interested, I can share more details.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 08.06.2015, 22:35
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 646
Groaned at 21 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 421 Times in 196 Posts
sam ali has earned the respect of manysam ali has earned the respect of manysam ali has earned the respect of many
Re: Children beyond discipline-Family crisis

Remember the days when our parents would spank us when we were out of
Line. We turned out fine. Just saying.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 08.06.2015, 23:13
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Englisch has no particular reputation at present
Re: Children beyond discipline-Family crisis

Hello Sam, I am glad your turned out fine
I have to say me too as you say and I have done a lot of work on myself to not be "just fine". Shoot for the stars!
Have a nice evening
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Englisch for this useful post:
This user groans at Englisch for this post:
  #39  
Old 09.06.2015, 12:00
RTN RTN is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Uetikon am See
Posts: 1,087
Groaned at 11 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,125 Times in 512 Posts
RTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Children beyond discipline-Family crisis

Thanks to everyone for their contributions.

We are taking action on a number of new fronts. We have started family therapy with a great guy who has a daughter with ADD so great knowledge about our situation. He had a great talk at the first meeting to the boys about how families are like football teams, there are rules, penalties and mum and dad are the coaches, they took it all in and now we have yellow and red cards for certain behaviors. The other thing he rightly suggested was to have one or two specific bad habits to change and concentrate on them, once mastered it is not so difficult to add another good behavior to the list.

The older one has had extensive blood tests to detirmine levels of hotmones and amino acids present, despite a healthy diet and appetite there are shortfalls in this area. From this he will get a tailor made medication to suppliment these. Which brings us to diet, a friend has had remarkable results with her children going to a gluten free diet, he had bad reflux problems as a baby which extended to toddler years so we know this is an area of concern but did not associate this with his ADD which only showed up when he started Kindski. So this is the next step but boy does he love his bread and pasta so we will have to search out alternatives and test them before a complete change. No point choosing a diet or food kids won't eat but generally they are not fussy eaters although the younger one is not so open to new things.

Separation helps, the older one has started Boy Scouts and loves it, great group of role models there amongst the young leaders which he really looks up to. Male role models are critical for boys this age but our circumstances are such that this is a bit lacking. I do breakfasts with the boys so now I feed one while the other is upstairs, this helps but at dinner we all sit together until everyone is finished, no negotition on this as it is one of our core rules. Perceived inequality is an issue for them but two wrongs don't make it right just don't seem to get through to them but we are working on not responding to this.

Trampolines are another great idea which we will get but please make sure they have a spring guard. We had a trip to the hospital last week for stitches as my BIL and SIL were too miserable to fork out 100 chuffs to replace theirs and one ended up face first into the springs. Yes it is our fault for not protecting them but they were all having such a great time and playing nicely we discussed it but did not want to stop them.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank RTN for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Children/family photo session kasia.p Commercial 0 20.12.2013 21:40
Adding children to your family policy eireann Insurance 2 01.03.2013 17:17
Family Activities with Children Sbrinz Travel/day trips/free time 0 23.03.2012 18:46
The YWAM in Lausanne / Family crisis Kygos Family matters/health 10 14.04.2010 16:24


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:18.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0