Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Family matters/health
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06.05.2015, 10:49
RTN RTN is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Uetikon am See
Posts: 1,102
Groaned at 11 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,141 Times in 517 Posts
RTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond repute
Children beyond discipline-Family crisis

We have a family crisis our two boys aged 5 and 8 can not be in the same room without annoying each other which ends in a fight and one of them getting hurt. No amount of discussion, disciplinary action (yes we have tried - naughty chair, time out, go to your room, taking away toys/privileges and finally a smack on the butt) or punishment makes any difference in the immediate or long term. It is destroying our family and our relationship. Short of sending one son to live with his grandparents in Australia we are at our wits end as to what to do.


Some background.
The older one has ADHD and is taking medicine which helps at school but mornings and evenings are a nightmare when it wears off, the fact that the effects of this medication wears off about 5 or 6 in the evening suggests the dosage (15Mg) is correct. Any more and he can not sleep and his appetite is gone which leads to a lack of energy and associated problems. He also resents having a brother and blames him for all the problems he creates, he has always been and is violent towards his smaller brother. He also has problems with fine motoric skills which is being treated as well as seeing a psychologist from time to time.
The younger one adores his brother regardless of the beatings he gets from him and will not at times give his older brother any peace or space. In growing up with an older brother like this he mimics the behaviour thinking it is normal, which is our main concern. Again seeing his brother ignoring or not responding to our requests (e.g sit at the table for dinner now please) on the first or second time he thinks it is okay for him to do so as well.
After a bad episode when things quiet down they appear remorseful and apologise normally without prompting. When they are visiting their friends homes we always get good reports that they are polite and well mannered.


We have little or no family support here, their grandparents can only manage one at a time which means we get no breaks or time together alone. By the time they are in bed (7.30/8.00) we are both exhausted and on edge before we get to sit and discuss the day.


Anyone here have any suggestions on how to stop this sibling rivalry when one child has a disability and the other one is jealous of the supposed extra attention needed to manage this?
Has anyone experience of some sort of family intervention (thinking super nanny) which has helped?
Any other alternate treatments or actions (from Feng Shui to brain mapping) you have tried personally which have had a positive effect? We have nearly exhausted every normal medical and psychological approach known to man.


And for others, we almost never go to restaurants as they are too feral so when you see kids out of control spare a thought for the parents who need to live with them.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank RTN for this useful post:
  #2  
Old 06.05.2015, 12:20
Dragon5's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Wolfhausen
Posts: 92
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 45 Times in 35 Posts
Dragon5 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Children beyond discipline-Family crisis

Hi RTN

I can understand your situation, have you tried talking to professionals about your family problem. There is, very conveniantly, a good praxis in Uetikon ...
http://www.bahnhof5.ch/
Who can also speak english, if that helps.

Good luck, PM me if you want more info.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Dragon5 for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 06.05.2015, 12:48
neddy's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Geneva
Posts: 1,246
Groaned at 15 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 1,564 Times in 667 Posts
neddy has a reputation beyond reputeneddy has a reputation beyond reputeneddy has a reputation beyond reputeneddy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Children beyond discipline-Family crisis

To me reading your comments I am thinking they are behaving as boys do, Territorial, fighting for supremacy, older one jealous of younger one or vice versa. The ADHD is a focus for you but the issues don't come from that. Ours had 5-6pm hypers too. End of the day, they are tired, hungry etc. Younger one wants to do what older one is doing - normal.
Can one go to stay at a friends for the night while the other goes to the grand parents? Do they have separate bedrooms?
Sounds like they are going to bed at a reasonable hour & that you are doing well however hard it seems right now. The hardest is not to argue between yourselves with one letting them get away with things while the other is strict.
Reply With Quote
The following 11 users would like to thank neddy for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 06.05.2015, 13:02
annie's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Basel/Valais
Posts: 298
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 335 Times in 131 Posts
annie has an excellent reputationannie has an excellent reputationannie has an excellent reputationannie has an excellent reputation
Re: Children beyond discipline-Family crisis

This sounds so difficult and I understand completely the exhaustion from lack of family support.

Could you organise a baby sitter for the younger child when the older child is with the grandparents?

Maybe try to look for any positive behaviour and praise that and ignore the negatives where you can. It takes patience as it is easier to say where a child has gone wrong than telling them what action they did was good and why. Try it for a day/evening if you can. You might as well as it isn't working at the moment and it wouldn't do harm.

Maybe do some team things where they are on the same team v mum and dad.

Have you spent the day in class with your child to see how he responds to the teachers and maybe copy how they manage him? I spent the day with one of my children and was surprised at how tired we both were by lunchtime. I then understood how they needed to have a longer break at lunch before doing half their homework and going back to school instead of me trying to get them to start earlier and complete it.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06.05.2015, 13:04
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Grisons
Posts: 288
Groaned at 5 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 202 Times in 105 Posts
banadol has earned some respectbanadol has earned some respect
Re: Children beyond discipline-Family crisis

i just read an article somewhere (some science mag, respectable, other stuff i don't read) about neurofeedback helping kids with ADHD. might be worth looking into.

probably family therapy would also help as you are all in it together. helping the older one understand his triggers and helping avoid them etc. is a joint effort i would think.

remember you are not alone with this! there will be some support group out there that can help you more, if you have not found one already.

good luck!
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank banadol for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 06.05.2015, 14:31
Amanda D's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Jura
Posts: 155
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 163 Times in 63 Posts
Amanda D is considered knowledgeableAmanda D is considered knowledgeableAmanda D is considered knowledgeable
Re: Children beyond discipline-Family crisis

Hey you just described me and my brother when we were kids. We both have ADHD, but being the male, my brother was more prone to violence and eratic behavior. we couldn't be in the same room together without some sort of fight or argument breaking out. He hated me.

The solution was for us to not be together. We had chairs on opposite ends of the room, be weren't allowed to play together and we couldn't play with each other's toys. Maybe it wasn't the best solution for the long term, but it worked in the moment.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Amanda D for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 06.05.2015, 14:54
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,467
Groaned at 7 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 2,231 Times in 824 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Children beyond discipline-Family crisis

Oh, RTN, I feel for you! You sound so tired of the struggle!

And yet I also admire you, since you are really trying to do it right, and you are managing to ensure that your children get enough sleep, and that, in itself, is a HUGE achievement when everyone's nerves are frazzled.

Here are some ideas, though granted, written without any direct experience of your situation.

Have you and your partner tried out all the permutations of people? E.g. you and older child going out, younger child and husband staying at home. Then the other way around, you with younger child, out. Your husband with both children at home, with you out. Your husband with both children out, with you at home, etc. etc. There might be a subset which works to calm everyone down... even if for half an hour. If you also have the fortune (if that's what it is) to involve the grandparents who are here, (especially if they don't live very far away), you might discover some unexpected match, e.g. you and father-in-law walk around the block twice, while husband stays at home helping older child supervising homework and mother-in-law gives younger child a bath.

There might also be some very specific activities which set them off more than others. If it is the Lego or the Playstation that they're seemingly "always" fighting over, perhaps you could just quietly confiscate that item. Don't threaten them, don't tell them you've removed it because they were bad, just tell them that the Lego (like you do, too) needs a rest, and so the Lego won't be playing with them for the next while. Here, however, is x and y and z with which they could play instead.

Sometimes, stress situations can de-esclalate with a relatively short intervention. Yes, I know, ideas like changing the permutations won't solve the overall problem, but something like that could perhaps make one particular afternoon or evening seem less of an ordeal. Especially if you can implement annie's suggestion of praise, you could then remind yourself, your children and husband each evening of what went well, what made us all (or even just you) feel better, how nice it was for those ten minutes when we did x or y.

If you can muster the energy, you might start a family Happy Book, a kind of diary in which you write about, or stick pictures of, things that were good. Just please don't let yourself get caught under some illusion of a yoke of obligation: you won't have "failed" if you manage to make an entry only sporadically. If the Happy Book catches on, (I mean that in the lucky, lucky sense of "if they come to love it") might find that, with time, you can call out: "Right, that's enough noise! Stop! Let's sit down and have a look at the Happy Book!" And even if the children won't look at it, you could page through it from time to time, just to remind yourself that some things did work and were enjoyable.

Another idea:
have you tried a lot of physical touch? Gentle but strong holding, rocking, stroking? One thing you most likely still have is physical superiority over both children. Can you introduce a cuddle time for each child? Or for you (and your husband) and them, all heaped together but NOT as a jumpy castle exercise, on your bed? Or better still, on a pile of mats and cushions in THEIR bedroom (if they share one) or in the living-room. A time to breathe (you could do the whole counting thing... breathe in, two, three, and they may or may not be able to follow you in that) and anyway just hugging them and keeping them physically near your body warmth, while you breathe deeply and slowly, may help. Especially if you can get them to sustain it for at least 5 minutes. More chance of success if another adult will help you, at least your partner, or perhaps a friend or or both of the grandparents.

The grandparents might think this sort of thing very strange, but they must know by now that you feel frazzled. You could say clearly that you are now trying out different suggestions, and ask for their help.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 06.05.2015, 16:23
RTN RTN is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Uetikon am See
Posts: 1,102
Groaned at 11 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,141 Times in 517 Posts
RTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Children beyond discipline-Family crisis

Quote:
View Post
Hi RTN

I can understand your situation, have you tried talking to professionals about your family problem. There is, very conveniantly, a good praxis in Uetikon ...
http://www.bahnhof5.ch/
Who can also speak english, if that helps.

Good luck, PM me if you want more info.
We know this one but have not used it, who do you recommend there?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06.05.2015, 16:39
RTN RTN is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Uetikon am See
Posts: 1,102
Groaned at 11 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,141 Times in 517 Posts
RTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Children beyond discipline-Family crisis

Separation helps but is not a solution when we are forced to be together. Apart with one on one they are both angelic, my wife took one for a weeks holiday and I took the other, we all had a great time. They missed each other and 24hrs later back to crisis central!!

They do get lots of cuddles from both of us and for boy they really enjoy it and need it. It is hard to reconcile that this sweet little boy was trying to kill his brother 15 minutes before. This is the hard thing of being strict but not too hard so they have time to come down from their "tantrum", easier for me than my wife.

Thanks for all the tips.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank RTN for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 06.05.2015, 17:14
amaraya's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: lausanne
Posts: 2,237
Groaned at 20 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 2,845 Times in 1,204 Posts
amaraya has a reputation beyond reputeamaraya has a reputation beyond reputeamaraya has a reputation beyond reputeamaraya has a reputation beyond reputeamaraya has a reputation beyond reputeamaraya has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Children beyond discipline-Family crisis

first thing is that you must put your relationship as a priority- it sounds funny being that the kids are the focus because of the behavior but i think it's really vital that you re-establish some kind of partnership between you two in order to put a strong family head of power and love in place. just my two cents there.

secondly, i have also heard interesting things about bio-feedback may be worth looking into.

also, what about (as if you aren't busy enough) giving your 'difficult' (i don't love that word but how else can i distinguish- you know what i mean) son an activity of his own after school during the difficult time. swimming, art, pottery, music, whatever. he's occupied during the bewitching hour and his energy goes to something positive- if he has this pent- up energy that is constantly labeled as negative it may give him a bit of confidence, hope, pride to have that same energy focused on something productive during the sensitive times. also, maybe find something different (another activity) for the younger one to do at the same time. they each have their own thing and they don't need to fight for attention in the same arena.

also, remember it's not anyone's fault that this is a bumpy time. not yours, not his. but- it's not what you want the younger one to start to become used to. if you are getting frustrated (who wouldn't????!!!!) that's not helping and he's feeding off it in a way. does he/you/the family see a therapist? if not, that's a must. good luck and make sure to make you two a must. i'm a firm believer that a loving and strong united couple can be a great healer in kid issues- you need to be more than just referees
__________________
'there isn't enough of anything as long as we live.
but at intervals a sweetness appears and, given a chance prevails'
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank amaraya for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 06.05.2015, 17:46
swisspea's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: From one side of lake Zurich to the other...
Posts: 5,511
Groaned at 33 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 5,042 Times in 2,436 Posts
swisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Children beyond discipline-Family crisis

5 and 8 are pretty tough transition points too.

Do you have the support of a Paediatrician, Psychologist or psychiatrist?

Are the kids doing really well at school...do they get additional support or are there things that could be better for them?

Within the school system, the kids could get referrals for psych assessment, psycomotorik therapy or other psych therapy if needed.

If you really think it is a problem of medications wearing off quite abruptly, you could speak with your psychiatrist (i am assuming the diagnosis and medication are under the care of a specialist paedatric psychiatrist)...

The other 'track' (or a combination of both) is to ask for a longer than normal appointment with your children's general paediatrician to determine the severity of the behavioural issues, and talk through the parenting and discipline dynamic. They should be able to make some suggestions of where to go for more support.

The red cross provide an 'emergency' babysitting service and it may be worth contacting them... I have heard that they may be able to provide trained and suitable babysitters for kids with additional needs...

School holidays are over now...and anyone who knows me has heard me say that it takes to 'week 3' after school holidays to feel like things are back to normal again.

I can highly recommend the kinder-jugend-paare therapy centre (psychologie) of the university in zurich. They were able to provide us with a very supportive psychologist who made specific interventions/therapy and support but had a wholistic and to my understanding an extremely up to date awareness of current psychological methodology (my sister just completed a PhD in Dev Psych and I am pretty aware of what is out there).

Last edited by swisspea; 06.05.2015 at 17:49. Reason: Correction
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06.05.2015, 17:56
swisspea's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: From one side of lake Zurich to the other...
Posts: 5,511
Groaned at 33 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 5,042 Times in 2,436 Posts
swisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Children beyond discipline-Family crisis

This is the psychology/clinic I can recommend:

http://www.psychologie.uzh.ch/fachri...z/btz-kjf.html

Unfortunately, it is quite expensive. In our case, the health insurance covers a proportion (maybe half?) and the rest of the cost of therapy for our children was covered by our Gemeinde - the referral was made via the school to the 'schule psychologie dienst' and from there they sourced the therapist initially and the psychologist then made a follow up recommendation and an agreement was made for a set number of therapy appointments for the individual child, but the therapist did a combination of individual therapy sessions and parent-discussions. We are very greatful that the Gemeinde paid.

The health insurance will pay some, and I would expect that a referral from the Paediatrician would help.

Another place to try is the 'KJPD' - kinder-jugend-psychiatrie-dienst
They generally do the testing/assessments on referral from the paediatrician or school psychologist...
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank swisspea for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 11.05.2015, 03:13
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,467
Groaned at 7 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 2,231 Times in 824 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Children beyond discipline-Family crisis

Hi RTN
it's been a few days... how are you, your wife and your sons coping now?


Do you know this service? http://www.elternnotruf.ch/
Although the website is in German and in French, you may find someone there who speaks English, if you need that. This is the equivalent of a children's emergency helpline, but for parents who are at the end of their tether, and just can't stand the situation any longer.

Last edited by doropfiz; 11.05.2015 at 03:17. Reason: adding link
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 11.05.2015, 17:54
Today only's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,933
Groaned at 487 Times in 297 Posts
Thanked 4,319 Times in 2,111 Posts
Today only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Children beyond discipline-Family crisis

When i was younger , my brother had red and white lego, i had yellow and blue to avoid punchups.

We still don't have much of a relation which is a pity, but now i guess it is too late to go forward.

Is there anything you can do with them that they both like doing apart from boxing lessons ?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Today only for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 11.05.2015, 18:22
RTN RTN is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Uetikon am See
Posts: 1,102
Groaned at 11 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,141 Times in 517 Posts
RTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Children beyond discipline-Family crisis

The weekend from hell.
We are trying to separate as much as possible. It's not that they don't like each other it is more that every thing is a competition to win at any costs. We just can't seem to find a way to get them to think through the consequences. No amount of punishment or privilege removal has any effect and then results in a screaming match with both blaming each other. We are looking at some sort of family therapy but tough to find in English.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank RTN for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 11.05.2015, 21:17
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,467
Groaned at 7 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 2,231 Times in 824 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Children beyond discipline-Family crisis

RTN
Please feel free to throw my ideas straight out the window if they don’t seem appropriate or applicable, okay? That's fine, since you know your situation and I don't.
With that preamlbe...

Could it be that you and your wife are, perhaps, suffering over some aspect of your children’s struggle that doesn’t actually bother THEM as much as it bothers YOU? That is, you both, or only you or only your wife?

For example, if the boys scream at each other, then could it be that THEY don’t feel that to be hell, necessarily, while for the adults the noise in itself is a strain? If so, would it help to wear some sort of ear-plugs? Not, of course, those which would block out their cries altogether, as you and they need the connection, but something which could dampen the upper piercing range of their screams?

If they are physically violent, is there a real risk of damage (as in broken skin or bones), in which case separating them is essential, or do THEY seem to think/feel that that was just a bit of fisticuffs? One way to determine this (apart from asking them, if they can articulate it) is to see how quickly they reconcile. Is either boy truly afraid of the next encounter with the other?

Is there a certain duration that they can be reasonably calm (even if that is something like 10 seconds) before all hell breaks loose? If so, is there any way to tell them that we liked the way it felt during that short time, and we’d like more of that condition, interaction, emotional climate (yes, I know, big words for little children)?

It seems to me essential, now, that you and your wife can each, separately, and also together, get some rest. You sound really, really tired.

I'd like to encourage you: it IS possible to teach the children that the next short interval (start with 10 seconds) belongs only to Mommy for herself, and to Daddy for himself, because everyone needs his or her own time.

To do this, both parents need to agree on the moment. Then, together, scan the horizon, since you as parents know the tell-tale signs of any immediate needs (food, dry clothing, toilet) and provide those things. Next, tell the boys that they now have time to ask for any help they need (getting a toy down from the top shelf, opening a box), and you and Mommy will help them, so that they are settled, because very soon it will be Mom’s time and Dad’s time. Then, interruptions aren’t possible. While Mom’s time and Dad’s time is happening, anything they need – except for emergencies (you will have to define “emergency”) – will just have to wait. Really, it'll have to wait. Invite them to ask you for specific things. If they don’t, fine.

Then both of you must be very, very disciplined and each sit or lie down, ideally with a hat or newspaper over your head so that it lat least ooks as if you are sleeping/resting, and then both count (slowly and inaudibly) to some number you’ve agreed on. Let’s say: 30, to start with.
Promise each other that unless it feels like the house is burning down, you will endure that “rest” and will not move away and will NOT attend to anything the children do, until you touch each other to indicate that “30” has been accomplished. When “30” has been reached, thank each other for the courage and discipline, and thank the children for having let you have your special Mom’s time and Dad’s time.
Be warned: this concept works only if the adults are in complete agreement, and neither will buckle under the noise of the children (except, naturally, in emergencies!).

I know of several families in which this method worked, because the children actually do learn that this is their moment to ask and to receive freely, and after that, they will really, really, really have to wait.
And the adults learn to extent their count of 30, bit by bit, until they actually do get a few moments peace, to read or think. As the children get older, you can explain to them (or show them) what Mom will be doing in her time (filling out the tax form, painting a picture, doing her German homework) or Dad in his (cleaning his shoes, uploading photos, practicing the violin).

I could imagine that it may feel like a far-off dream… but you could try it for just that count of 30, and it would give you, at the very least, a moment to breathe. If you practice this once each evening, and on weekends 3x per day, at least you'll breathe a bit now and again.

And once again, you could try the Eltern Notruf, even in English.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 11.05.2015, 22:00
RTN RTN is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Uetikon am See
Posts: 1,102
Groaned at 11 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,141 Times in 517 Posts
RTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Children beyond discipline-Family crisis

That is a great idea. If we could keep it to yelling it would be okay but it often ends up with one of them getting hit on the head with what ever is around. It is a vicious circle of trying to let them find their own way and constantly observing when to step in. I just do not know where their lack of respect comes from and the older one especially does not seem to care. Maybe it is an ADD thing.
We had a meeting with his doctor today who was not that helpful but with things like this you need to work with someone in the system to get support and with someone else to actually work on the issues.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12.05.2015, 09:12
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,467
Groaned at 7 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 2,231 Times in 824 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Children beyond discipline-Family crisis

Oh, dear, RTN... not a very helpful doctor. Sorry to hear that.

I thought about what you wrote: about their hitting each other on the head... and then your words "with whatever is around". That phrase made me think of some of the absolute measures used in other contexts, such as isolation rooms in psychiatric clinics, which, horrible as they are, are padded and in that sense physically safe, or, put more pleasantly, like a bouncy castle (you know, one of those huge inflatable toys sometimes put up at fairs, for children to jump all over). There are also special wall cushions for some sports. And about softer spaces, like meditation rooms for adults.

Would it be possible for you to clear out the smallest room in your home of everything? Make it absolutely empty? Then add only soft mats on the floor?

If such a measure were possible (or perhaps you could use a bathroom or cellar in this way, if you designed a clever system of foam rubber cushions to cover over the bath, toilet, etc.) then you could try your 30 seconds Mom's and Dad's time in there. With the boys. If you and your wife lay in the middle of the floor space, providing a physical barrier, one boy could be placed on your side, and the other on her side. And then cover your eyes with your hats or newspaper (you can, of course, peep, but the children don't need to know that) and try to count to 30. If the boys, as they probably will, climb over you or crawl or run around to get to each other, well then, so be it.
There simply will be no "whatever" lying around (since the room is otherwise empty, and everyone barefoot) with which they can hit each other, besides of course their own physical strength. Once you get to 30, and you and your wife signal to each other that the "Mom's time and Dad's time" is over, then you could roll over and grab them and physically separate them and turn the exercise into a laughing roll-around-together-on-the-floor.

This may sound far-out and inaccessible. Perhaps it sounds like a lot of work (emptying a whole room) just for an experiment which might not work anyway, and for only as long as it takes to count to 30. I'm suggesting it based on the notion that if you and the boys can find something that works, that feels better than your jangled nerves right now, if only for a few moments, then that feelgood time might well be able to be replicated and expanded.

If you would even consider such an exercise, but don't have the energy to rework your home right now, yet might be interested in trying it, and if you'd like information about access to a safe, happy room of this kind in Zurich, please feel free to PM me.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 12.05.2015, 21:07
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 2,170
Groaned at 36 Times in 34 Posts
Thanked 2,212 Times in 1,125 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Children beyond discipline-Family crisis

Quote:
View Post
I just do not know where their lack of respect comes from and the older one especially does not seem to care.
You are dealing with a 5 year old and 8 year old, what do you expect??? As kids myself and my brother were at war for years and yes we used whatever was handy - spades, sand buckets, rules you name it we used it! And then one day it was over and no one knew why. Thats how boys are and yours are far too young to be expected to fall into line like little adults.

In a few years you 5 year old will be old enough to appreciate the situation with his older brother, but for now you just have to accept it. And your 8 old needs a break from the rules and regulations of the day, so go easy on him, let most of it slide and keep one or two absolute musts. Choose the path of least resistance for the moment and in a few years they will be old enough to understand what you are trying to teach them. But for the moment you just got to suck it up.

I have a 17 year old teenager with Asperger's Syndrome and we had similar issues when he was growing. After failing with all the advise gurus, I eventually took the above advice from my grandfather who had raised 13 children! And it worked out fine!
__________________
"There is no passion to be found playing small - in settling for a life that is less than the one you are capable of living." - Nelson Mandela
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Jim2007 for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 12.05.2015, 21:10
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 19,708
Groaned at 396 Times in 294 Posts
Thanked 22,657 Times in 10,230 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Children beyond discipline-Family crisis

Recently read 'the incident of the dog in the nightime' about a teenager with Aspergers and his relationships with others (no sibblings though) and it was really an eye opener. I'd say a must for anyone with children with ADHT or Aspergers.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Children/family photo session kasia.p Commercial 0 20.12.2013 21:40
Adding children to your family policy eireann Insurance 2 01.03.2013 17:17
Family Activities with Children Sbrinz Travel/day trips/free time 0 23.03.2012 18:46
The YWAM in Lausanne / Family crisis Kygos Family matters/health 10 14.04.2010 16:24


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 14:33.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0