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Old 06.06.2015, 17:20
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Hospital Doctors: very long working hours

I am sure the same situation exists in your home countries, doctors are over worked, and cannot function well with long working hours.

The Swiss law states it is a maximum of 50 hours, but most hospitals are ignoring this. Would you be happy to be diagnosed and treated by a very tired person?

There is a petition you can sign and protest against the long working hours expected of doctors.

************************************************** *******************************

Please sign up here: http://spital-illegal.ch/protestaktion/unterschreiben.html

The protest petition translated:

Dear Mr. Federal Councillor Schneider-Ammann

For 10 years,assistant medical officers subject to the the labor law - but this is not complied with for 10 years.
That is unhealthy for the affected doctors in the hospital. And it's dangerous for patients.

Also, I must expect to be treated in a hospital stay of revised and sleep-deprived doctors. That gives me a stomach ache.

They are available as economy minister in charge of the State Secretariat for Economic Affairs SECO, which has oversight of compliance with labor law in the hospitals.

I urge you, therefore, to take appropriate measures and sanctions to ensure that the labor law is finally adhered to in hospitals.

kind Regards
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Old 06.06.2015, 17:30
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Re: Hospital Doctors: very long working hours

but if you sign it, don't complain about health insurance cost increase or lack of doctors.
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Old 06.06.2015, 18:34
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Re: Hospital Doctors: very long working hours

Why should I complain? The extra 20 hours of work per week per doctor, compared to everything else is peanuts. And who will be paying to correct the mistakes by the over worked doctors? The insurance companies.... There are plenty of European doctors wishing to come & work here.
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Old 06.06.2015, 18:46
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Re: Hospital Doctors: very long working hours

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but if you sign it, don't complain about health insurance cost increase or lack of doctors.
I agree with Sbrinz. I have encountered grouchy overworked doctors recently in an emergency room in Germany. My husband did not get the right care and ended up suffering needlessly due the incorrect diagnosis. I know it is a stressful job but no one should work these hours and have to make life or death decisions.
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Old 06.06.2015, 19:20
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Re: Hospital Doctors: very long working hours

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Why should I complain? The extra 20 hours of work per week per doctor, compared to everything else is peanuts. And who will be paying to correct the mistakes by the over worked doctors? The insurance companies.... There are plenty of European doctors wishing to come & work here.
Then you basically move the problem to another country. Where will they get the doctors they need as a replacement?
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Old 07.06.2015, 01:35
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Re: Hospital Doctors: very long working hours

For years the Swiss have not trained enough doctors, and they continue to take in foreign doctors. Recently most have come from Germany, but the open racism towards Germans here is persuading many to return home.

Very soon many of the general doctors will retire, and I wonder how the Swiss villages and towns will attract fresh doctors from abroad?

Switzerland needs to start training their own doctors immediately.
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Old 07.06.2015, 07:49
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Re: Hospital Doctors: very long working hours

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For years the Swiss have not trained enough doctors, and they continue to take in foreign doctors. Recently most have come from Germany, but the open racism towards Germans here is persuading many to return home.

Very soon many of the general doctors will retire, and I wonder how the Swiss villages and towns will attract fresh doctors from abroad?

Switzerland needs to start training their own doctors immediately.
Have you checked lately how many from the school kids make it to the gymnasium here, let alone Medicine School later on? I'm afraid it's not that simple. And I would dare saying the situation is not even that grim compared to other similar places. (France for instance)
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Old 07.06.2015, 08:09
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Re: Hospital Doctors: very long working hours

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IWould you be happy to be diagnosed and treated by a very tired person?
If the alternative is ever-increasing queues and month-long waits to see a doctor, yes, I'd rather have a somewhat tired doc diagnosing me.

This *sounds* like another idiotic attempt to outlaw the problem rather than engineer a solution. Worry about the working hours if you must after you've done something to correct the supply of doctors; enforcing a time cap won't do anything to help that.
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Old 08.06.2015, 00:00
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Re: Hospital Doctors: very long working hours

So it's legal for the hospital to make a doctor work over 50 hours, while a taxi driver on duty longer (Not always driving) than 50 hours will be fined heavily.
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Old 08.06.2015, 00:04
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Re: Hospital Doctors: very long working hours

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So it's legal for the hospital to make a doctor work over 50 hours, while a taxi driver on duty longer (Not always driving) than 50 hours will be fined heavily.
Yes. Don't forget that you compare a highly paid job to a lowly paid job.
Top managers and politicians work long hours too. Is anybody concerned about their working times?
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Old 08.06.2015, 05:01
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Re: Hospital Doctors: very long working hours

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Then you basically move the problem to another country. Where will they get the doctors they need as a replacement?
And why would I care?

Your line of argument is
a) "hiring enough doctors is too expensive, so the ones we have got to deal with their 70 hour weeks" - There is a reason for labour laws and I don't understand why a truck driver can have more stringent rules to follow to not endanger traffic than a surgeon. But that's just me... I am fine to pay more for that.

b) "hiring doctors from abroad is unethical as they will be missed in their home countries" - There has been a brain drain in many other fields and Switzerland never had an issue to hire foreign experts. My current GP moved from India to Singapore as the quality of life is better. If doctors want to move to Switzerland and could ease the situation of the existing ones to the point that hospitals can actually fulfill the labour laws are they hardly a competition to the locals... and if their home countries want to keep them do they simply need to offer a better job in a free market.
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Old 08.06.2015, 23:50
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Re: Hospital Doctors: very long working hours

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open racism towards Germans here is persuading many to return home.
Sometimes, it's when they discover the hidden differences between local and imported doctors that Germans refuse to be treated any differently... What i know of has mostly to do with wage...
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Old 09.06.2015, 00:00
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Re: Hospital Doctors: very long working hours

Welcome to the world of shift workers
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Old 09.06.2015, 00:07
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Re: Hospital Doctors: very long working hours

Please name a country where doctors are not overworked.

Tom
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Old 09.06.2015, 00:14
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Re: Hospital Doctors: very long working hours

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Please name a country where doctors are not overworked.

Tom
Cuba?
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Old 09.06.2015, 00:16
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Re: Hospital Doctors: very long working hours

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Please name a country where doctors are not overworked.

Tom
North Korea? But is this relevant to our own health care in Switzerland?
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Old 09.06.2015, 00:38
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Re: Hospital Doctors: very long working hours

So, you think lowering the required work week is a good thing, but it's not so clear.
Here's a study from a few years ago
http://www.massgeneral.org/about/pre...e.aspx?id=1550

in the US, medical residents have an 80 hour work week. Am i understanding that it's 50 here? It is possible that 50 hours might not be enough time to complete tasks, thus causing more stress. Also, lots of surgeons believe that you need to practice techniques over and over again to get them right.

It's a tough call...you need enough time to get your work done, enough experience that many tasks are second nature, but not so much time working that you are a zombie.
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Old 09.06.2015, 06:22
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Re: Hospital Doctors: very long working hours

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Also, lots of surgeons believe that you need to practice techniques over and over again to get them right.
Are you seriously suggesting that it takes an 80 hour week to be efficient as a surgeon?

Honestly - fixing broken legs is not exactly Shaolin Kung Fu...
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Old 09.06.2015, 10:15
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Re: Hospital Doctors: very long working hours

Certainly just cutting doctors hours to 50 would not solve the shortage in the short-term though, would it? There are so many issues at play here- and one of the main issues at the mo in Switzerland is the fact all the baby boomers are retiring all at once- including a huge proportion of GPs- and young doctors do not want to become GPs, and certainly not in rural areas.

Many young doctors, once trained, do not wish to work long-hours, many choose to go part-time for all sorts of reasons.

But Edot has put the finger on another issue- that of practice and experience. OH used to train young GPs, and the fact they worked less than half the number of hours their 'elders' did- means they are just not getting the necessary exposure and experience. His Practice/office went from 5 doctors to 11 after the older guys retired, for the same number of patients and without night and week-end duty- Go figure. Just signing a petition to cut hours to 50 will solve very little, and cause havoc. I know that was sheer madness, and almost impossible, but OH worked 135-140 hrs when a junior doctor in London in 1970- so hours have been cut dramatically since then.
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Old 09.06.2015, 10:28
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Re: Hospital Doctors: very long working hours

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Are you seriously suggesting that it takes an 80 hour week to be efficient as a surgeon?

Honestly - fixing broken legs is not exactly Shaolin Kung Fu...
There's much more to being a surgeon than fixing broken legs you know.
In fact most broken legs are not even fixed by surgeons.

Cardiac bypass or brain surgery on the other hand.......... I wouldn't really want a trainee doing that on me.
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