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  #21  
Old 11.06.2015, 10:02
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Re: Dentists

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While the dental services are highly expensive in Switzerland and people prefer to travel to nearby countries for cheaper services, my question is how the dentists earn money then?!!

You can wait for one person in a month and earn 1000CHF or you can see 5 people in a month and take 300CHF for each. Which one is preferred??!! This is an unrealistic example though....

I go to Dr dent POllak and his colleagues. Fair Prices and they even advise you to get cheap but excellent stuff in Konstanz for half what it costs here. They are near CENTRAL (tram 10 or simply HB) and so quite convenient. Konstanz sounds good, as Mum was out of a Family of Konstanz-SteinamRhein-Schaffhausen vintage
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  #22  
Old 11.06.2015, 10:44
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Re: Dentists

Trust and skill are the most important considerations to me. Price comes much farther down the list.

I would not consider going abroad, though. I want to see someone close to home, where when I am in pain I can be treated here, now - and where follow-through treatment is easily scheduled.

I am lucky to have an excellent dentist here, someone whose ethics and practices have earned my trust time and time again. He, too, tends towards the conservative approach, recommending less invasive options whenever possible. So when he tells me I need something done I trust his assessment, I know he would not do something not in my best interest.

And - I honestly don't think his prices are high. Certainly good value for the cost.

My dentist is close to retiring, though. I dread the day I have to find someone new, as I've heard many stories of... shall we say... differing ethics in the field.

Is it a generational thing? Granted, my sample set is highly unrepresentative , but talking to friends who are all happy with their dentist it seems that most of the 'trustworthy' practitioners are older, close to retirement. Many of those who are unhappy seem to have gone to younger dentists. Has there been a change in training?
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  #23  
Old 11.06.2015, 11:05
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Re: Dentists

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My dentist is close to retiring, though. I dread the day I have to find someone new, as I've heard many stories of... shall we say... differing ethics in the field.

Is it a generational thing? Granted, my sample set is highly unrepresentative , but talking to friends who are all happy with their dentist it seems that most of the 'trustworthy' practitioners are older, close to retirement. Many of those who are unhappy seem to have gone to younger dentists. Has there been a change in training?
The training philosophy hasn't changed much; for generations it has been mainly technologically oriented. When dentists gather experience in the course of practical work, they either begin to understand that the latest technology not always is the only possible way to go, or they just stick to the most profitable route because it is -- erm -- most profitable.
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Old 11.06.2015, 11:14
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Re: Dentists

I went for my bi-annual dental check-up two weeks ago. My teeth were cleaned/scaled, polished and 2 x-rays taken. In all, I was in my dentist's surgery for about 45/50 minutes. Cost? CHF 164. Dr S has been my dentist for over 30 years - I do so hope he does not retire soon!
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Old 11.06.2015, 13:27
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Re: Dentists

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Roughly the same, depending on the size of the filling.
Having been charged 440 for a composite filling on Monday in Zurich I would have to respectfully disagree.

How any dentist can justify such blatant gouging for a consultancy that took 30 mins is beyond me.
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  #26  
Old 11.06.2015, 15:02
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Re: Dentists

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Having been charged 440 for a composite filling on Monday in Zurich I would have to respectfully disagree.

How any dentist can justify such blatant gouging for a consultancy that took 30 mins is beyond me.
There is no composite filling (other than externally made inlays) that costs 440. There must be other items too.
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  #27  
Old 11.06.2015, 15:03
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Re: Dentists

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There is no composite filling (other than externally made inlays) that costs 440. There must be other items too.
or the Dentist just charged a lot?
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Old 11.06.2015, 15:25
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Re: Dentists

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There is no composite filling (other than externally made inlays) that costs 440. There must be other items too.
On the invoice the ancillary items that went in to the procedure were billed per line item; initial exam, x-ray, sensitivity test etc but these were all less than a hundred all told. The line item for the filling itself was 350.

Bottom line is that there can be no justification for charging such an outrageous amount for what was a straightforward procedure.
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Old 11.06.2015, 16:14
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Re: Dentists

Since you obviously are an expert, you might be interested in buying my practice for a token amount and run it to make oodles. I'm game.
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  #30  
Old 11.06.2015, 18:47
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Re: Dentists

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On the invoice the ancillary items that went in to the procedure were billed per line item; initial exam, x-ray, sensitivity test etc but these were all less than a hundred all told. The line item for the filling itself was 350.

Bottom line is that there can be no justification for charging such an outrageous amount for what was a straightforward procedure.
Now that looks somewhat different, doesn't it? I mean, 350 is not the same as 440, right?

But even 350 for a single filling is a very rare occurrence. It's the absolute top range of composite fillings, the bottom range being below 100, median around 135.

Looks like a molar with all four cusps damaged. I thought that degree of decay was an up to 1970 thing. I see such a case maybe once every other year.
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  #31  
Old 11.06.2015, 18:58
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Re: Dentists

The average cost for a large white filling in the UK (private) is £150.

Last edited by Odile; 11.06.2015 at 19:53.
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Old 12.06.2015, 08:58
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Re: Dentists

I always go to my trusty dentist in the UK and Mama G goes to hers. Both of us in the last 12 months have had cause for emergency dentistry in Zug and neither of us have anything positive to say about Swiss dentist.

My wife has been to 2 different ones, the 1st would be more suited to road drilling than teeth, and he presented her with a a bill than was more painful than his treatment. She had a better experience the 2nd time with a different dentist, but neither where as good or cost friendly as her UK dentist.

Me, I went to the same practice as the 2nd dentist she used in Zug and the treatment is ongoing, and suffice to say I wish I'd hopped a flight to my dentist in the UK.

My UK dentist doesn't have piped music, 50" lcd tv's liberally scattered about, or premises so bright and modern they could be from Star Wars... but he does a bloody good job and infinitely better than my (limited granted) experience here, and I had a week in Blighty inc flights, car hire and a hotel did a bit of shopping and spent less than I'm being charge here for for the same treatment... just more pain, and wallet lightening.. and really I don't care if there is a coffee machine worthy of Starbuck, a choice of TV channels, or a technology array that would stump Scotty, I just want a good, trust inspiring dentist, without crazily inflated prices.
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Old 12.06.2015, 11:42
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Re: Dentists

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The average cost for a large white filling in the UK (private) is £150.
My local dentist's charges £32-60 for a composite white filling privately....so there must be some REALLY expensive on the other end of the scale to average this to £150!
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  #34  
Old 12.06.2015, 12:49
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Re: Dentists

"My local dentist's charges £32-60 for a composite white filling privately....so there must be some REALLY expensive on the other end of the scale to average this to £150!"


Porsch1909,


At CHF 50 per composite filling your dentist is below variable cost, unless he uses some really budget adhesives and compounds. This is the price for a composite filling you will pay in Eastern Europe and they will use materials that have been on the market for a long time and are now significantly cheaper. But if you want a composite filling, particularly filling material that will blend to the color of your teeth, you will not be in this price point unless you dentist wants not only to work for free, but pay for your materials as well. And if you are looking for materials - for a front tooth for example - that can be polished perfectly and will stay there for a long time, you are DEFINITELY beyond this price point regardless where you are at.


Now, many people don't really care how their teeth look. If you are in the group that only wants teeth to chew on food, then it really doesn't matter to you what materials are being used for the composite filling, as long as it is cheap. That's perfectly fine. Hey, some people drive Yugos, others prefer a Porsche. You can't get a Porsche for the price of a Yugo.
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  #35  
Old 12.06.2015, 13:20
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Re: Dentists

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"My local dentist's charges £32-60 for a composite white filling privately....so there must be some REALLY expensive on the other end of the scale to average this to £150!"


Porsch1909,


At CHF 50 per composite filling your dentist is below variable cost, unless he uses some really budget adhesives and compounds. This is the price for a composite filling you will pay in Eastern Europe and they will use materials that have been on the market for a long time and are now significantly cheaper. But if you want a composite filling, particularly filling material that will blend to the color of your teeth, you will not be in this price point unless you dentist wants not only to work for free, but pay for your materials as well. And if you are looking for materials - for a front tooth for example - that can be polished perfectly and will stay there for a long time, you are DEFINITELY beyond this price point regardless where you are at.


Now, many people don't really care how their teeth look. If you are in the group that only wants teeth to chew on food, then it really doesn't matter to you what materials are being used for the composite filling, as long as it is cheap. That's perfectly fine. Hey, some people drive Yugos, others prefer a Porsche. You can't get a Porsche for the price of a Yugo.
This is in the UK not Switzerland so will be cheaper.

http://www.millhilldentist.co.uk/fees.shtml

This is a dentist in London that will be more expensive than where I am with the price starting at £68.

http://www.dentaldental.co.uk/fees.html

Here is one in Chiswick that will be on the high end of prices starting at £110

http://www.whitburndental.co.uk/whit...-whitburn.html

One in a small town starting at £45.

http://www.blueskydental.org/private.html

From £50-£100 here.
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  #36  
Old 12.06.2015, 13:23
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Re: Dentists

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"My local dentist's charges £32-60 for a composite white filling privately....so there must be some REALLY expensive on the other end of the scale to average this to £150!"


Porsch1909,


At CHF 50 per composite filling your dentist is below variable cost, unless he uses some really budget adhesives and compounds. This is the price for a composite filling you will pay in Eastern Europe and they will use materials that have been on the market for a long time and are now significantly cheaper. But if you want a composite filling, particularly filling material that will blend to the color of your teeth, you will not be in this price point unless you dentist wants not only to work for free, but pay for your materials as well. And if you are looking for materials - for a front tooth for example - that can be polished perfectly and will stay there for a long time, you are DEFINITELY beyond this price point regardless where you are at.


Now, many people don't really care how their teeth look. If you are in the group that only wants teeth to chew on food, then it really doesn't matter to you what materials are being used for the composite filling, as long as it is cheap. That's perfectly fine. Hey, some people drive Yugos, others prefer a Porsche. You can't get a Porsche for the price of a Yugo.
You can dress it up how you chose, but the average Joe really won't care, they will want a good job done end of... Now if the dentist sat down and explained material specs and cost it would be a choice, Porsche version cost X Yugo version cost Z, most just present a bill at the end of treatment, so Joe often would be clueless on what material is used or it's cost... something that represents good value is not always the cheapest.

Further, the office the funky decor, the big TV's, and bigger coffee machine, is being paid for by Mr Joe, and that has got nothing to do with whatever material is used for the filling, be it state of the art, last years state of the art... or a bit of recycled Yugo..... and for the cynical how could the tell.
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  #37  
Old 12.06.2015, 13:34
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Re: Dentists

Papa Goose,

Looking for a dentist when you are in emergency is a terrible time for selection. You are pretty limited to 'who can see you NOW.'

Let us all be happy that there are choices - much worse when there is none, or just ONE. So, big TVs in every room not your thing? Sure, plenty of dentists that don't have them. I happen to completely agree with you, so I will not allow my wife to get a TV at our practie; my philosophy is that the patient should be seated within 5 min of the given time slot. Sure, unexpected things happen and procedures can take longer, but as a general rule patients should not be made to wait so a TV becomes purposeless.

I am partial to bright, clean and orderly environments though. Good sunlight not only kills germs, it soothes and calms. Clean and orderly … well, I bet those are on everyone’s list of criteria for a dental office.

You have found a good dentist in the UK. You have had a poor experience here so far. The opposite could have been as easily the case as well. There are probably a 100,000 dentists in the UK. Do you think every one of them is great? I seriously doubt it, given that the UK has shortage of dentists and doctors, and has relaxed, compared to the EU, its criteria for admitting foreign-educated dentists. But you have found a good one, so continue seeing him (her) for non-emergency situations. Then spend the time finding one you can trust here for those procedures that cannot wait until you head to the UK. J
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Old 15.06.2015, 16:12
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Re: Dentists

Porsch1909,

We, Americans, invented the 'starting at X' pricing! Not sure if the meaning has caught up on the Isles... just teasing you, don't get worked up. Peace.

Based on the starting prices you have provided in your post, our price is comparable to the price in London, even with currently strong Swiss franc. Price of 110 pounds is about the same as CHF 180, which is our starting price (using our point factor of 3.3 and the SSO point guideline). These are starting prices, both in London and here, for the composite filling only.

But let's be a bit more exact. How about a composite filling for a chipped front tooth? As I was curious, I called the Chiswick dentist whose link you provided to enquire on the cost of such procedure. So, they will have to do an exam on the tooth – cost is 54.57 pounds (CHF 5 more than the CHF 75 we charge). They said it will likely need an x-ray (13.26 pounds for one, which is about 1 CHF higher than the CHF 19 we charge). And yes, if the composite filling is small (one surface), it will be 110 pounds, increasing if there are more surfaces involved to 185 pounds (both within a 10 CHF difference compared to our prices).

Ok, our point factor at 3.3 is somewhat below the 3.5 average for Switzerland, and below the average of 4.5 for Zurich, so your bill at those averages will be a bit higher compared to ours, but within a 100 CHF difference in total. Can you be overcharged here for procedures that were not done or were not necessary? Yeah, it has happened at some places. But same can happen in the UK as well. Is the price difference significant to justify a special dental trip to the UK? Well, if you have to pay for a hotel, restaurant meals and airline ticket I cannot see how it will make sense cost-wise. But, if you are going to the UK anyway and you are staying with your relatives for free, then the costs are comparable and you can do a bit cheaper outside of London.
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Old 15.06.2015, 16:47
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Re: Dentists

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Porsch1909,

We, Americans, invented the 'starting at X' pricing! Not sure if the meaning has caught up on the Isles... just teasing you, don't get worked up. Peace.

Based on the starting prices you have provided in your post, our price is comparable to the price in London, even with currently strong Swiss franc. Price of 110 pounds is about the same as CHF 180, which is our starting price (using our point factor of 3.3 and the SSO point guideline). These are starting prices, both in London and here, for the composite filling only.

But let's be a bit more exact. How about a composite filling for a chipped front tooth? As I was curious, I called the Chiswick dentist whose link you provided to enquire on the cost of such procedure. So, they will have to do an exam on the tooth – cost is 54.57 pounds (CHF 5 more than the CHF 75 we charge). They said it will likely need an x-ray (13.26 pounds for one, which is about 1 CHF higher than the CHF 19 we charge). And yes, if the composite filling is small (one surface), it will be 110 pounds, increasing if there are more surfaces involved to 185 pounds (both within a 10 CHF difference compared to our prices).

Ok, our point factor at 3.3 is somewhat below the 3.5 average for Switzerland, and below the average of 4.5 for Zurich, so your bill at those averages will be a bit higher compared to ours, but within a 100 CHF difference in total. Can you be overcharged here for procedures that were not done or were not necessary? Yeah, it has happened at some places. But same can happen in the UK as well. Is the price difference significant to justify a special dental trip to the UK? Well, if you have to pay for a hotel, restaurant meals and airline ticket I cannot see how it will make sense cost-wise. But, if you are going to the UK anyway and you are staying with your relatives for free, then the costs are comparable and you can do a bit cheaper outside of London.
So you're comparing a high end Chiswick dentists to a low end Swiss one and saving 100CHF? Thanks for that.

But my point was more Odile saying the average cost for a white filling being £150 which is obviously not true.
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Old 15.06.2015, 17:01
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Re: Dentists

Odile: £150 on average for a large filling.

Porsch: starts from £110.

Apples and oranges.
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