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Old 15.07.2015, 13:42
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medical leave for family/work related burnout

Hi all - is it possible to take a medical leave from work due to the long standing burnout caused by a compound of family and work problems? If so, for how long and what are the options? Dear friend working for a pharmaceutical company in Basel urgently needs help but is dead worried about losing job. Any and all recommendations and experiences are much appreciated.
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Old 15.07.2015, 13:52
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Re: medical leave for family/work related burnout

I am not an expert but know of people who have been through the process. Your friend should talk through the situation a medical doctor about it. Based on the situation, that doctor can write a person off indefinitely (I believe, but am not sure....maybe it's limited to 6 months or so) and you do NOT have to give your employer a great amount of detail about why. It's common practice here and I believe the job is protected during this time. Good luck.
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Old 15.07.2015, 13:54
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Re: medical leave for family/work related burnout

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Hi all - is it possible to take a medical leave from work due to the long standing burnout caused by a compound of family and work problems? If so, for how long and what are the options? Dear friend working for a pharmaceutical company in Basel urgently needs help but is dead worried about losing job. Any and all recommendations and experiences are much appreciated.
In CH you can't be fired if you ill, well not for a couple of years.

Get signed off work is the first step.
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Old 15.07.2015, 19:23
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Re: medical leave for family/work related burnout

6 months actually.

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In CH you can't be fired if you ill, well not for a couple of years.

Get signed off work is the first step.
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Old 15.07.2015, 19:41
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Re: medical leave for family/work related burnout

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In CH you can't be fired if you ill, well not for a couple of years.

Get signed off work is the first step.
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6 months actually.
Neither one or the the other is entirely correct.

You can be fired.

There is a short period of protection which is dependant upon the length of time you have worked for the company at the moment they terminate your contract, it also depends on your company, as some contracts offer better conditions than others.
Some companies though do not respect this and fire employees willy nilly during illness periods without thinking there will be any consequences for them.

The period of protection could be anything from 1 week, 1 month, 3 months, 6 months or a full year. This is how much time your company has to wait before issuing you with a termination of contract letter.

Nevertheless it may not make much difference to you financially in the long run when you are fired during a long period of illness since* ...

Ordinarily if you are fired whilst you are off sick, 100% unfit to work, then after the termination of your contract your firm's insurance company will take over paying your salary, from that point on you deal with them directly. They typically pay out up to 720 days continual sick leave (or approximately 2 years), including the time you were still employed. The entire time you are off sick but still employed is officially paid sick leave.

Again depending on your contract, once this has ended, you might only be paid 80% of your salary during the first year you are off sick and again 80% or possibly less, during the second year. However some firms offer insurance policies for these situations with better conditions and you might receive 100% of your salary for the first year or even for the full two years.

* Having said that however, after your contract has been terminated and you are in receipt of sick pay from an insurance company, your retirement pension contributions are not being paid, so you are liable to pay the at least the minimum amount, I believe Fr.504.-- per annum, payable pro rata, based on the time you are not working and officially still off sick simultaneously. This will be invoiced to you by your canton at a later stage, in my case it took more than a year for this invoice to reach me.

more here: Unemployment after sick leave

Last edited by plumtree; 15.07.2015 at 21:55. Reason: adding
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Old 15.07.2015, 21:12
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Re: medical leave for family/work related burnout

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Hi all - is it possible to take a medical leave from work due to the long standing burnout caused by a compound of family and work problems? If so, for how long and what are the options? Dear friend working for a pharmaceutical company in Basel urgently needs help but is dead worried about losing job. Any and all recommendations and experiences are much appreciated.
Hi,
The answer is yes but he will need a doctor's certificate which needs to be renewed every 2 months approximately. With a medical certificate there is then a down-time (180 days?) before the firm can fire him. This 180 days will be counted in addition to the notice period. The doctor may also be involved in discussions as to the extent of the working ability (typically 0-50%) and subsequent reintegration into the company.
Hope this helps
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Old 21.07.2015, 14:24
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Re: medical leave for family/work related burnout

Thank you all for the responses! I'm happy to report that my friend has taken a first step and consulted a doctor.
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Old 22.07.2015, 11:12
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Re: medical leave for family/work related burnout

One other possibility is that the employer may refer your friend to AI / IV for an "early detection" process. I don't know too much about it as I'm going through the ordinary AI process, but my understanding is that the aim is to identify problems at an early stage and work with employer and employee to find solutions so that the employee can stay employed rather than waiting and possibly having the situation degenerate so that the employee ends up on invalidity pension. But as I said, don't know too much about it except that it can happen but should be taken as a sign employer is keen to keep employee and work with them. Although the process (in French at any rate) is known as as "denouncement", it is not a negative thing.
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Old 05.08.2015, 22:23
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Re: medical leave for family/work related burnout

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One other possibility is that the employer may refer your friend to AI / IV for an "early detection" process. I don't know too much about it as I'm going through the ordinary AI process, but my understanding is that the aim is to identify problems at an early stage and work with employer and employee to find solutions so that the employee can stay employed rather than waiting and possibly having the situation degenerate so that the employee ends up on invalidity pension. But as I said, don't know too much about it except that it can happen but should be taken as a sign employer is keen to keep employee and work with them. Although the process (in French at any rate) is known as as "denouncement", it is not a negative thing.
But after how long does this 'early detection' process begin and what does it exactly entail? Is it successful to any extent?

Where I worked for example (a larger company), everyone who was off sick for a more than a couple of months (7 of us at that time) was simply referred to AI/IV and then all fired in any case, as an insurance company took over the payment of the monthly salary... the employer sees it as a chance to get rid of the old and tired existing and expensive employees, to bring in the new...
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Old 08.08.2015, 10:44
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Re: medical leave for family/work related burnout

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One other possibility is that the employer may refer your friend to AI / IV for an "early detection" process. I don't know too much about it as I'm going through the ordinary AI process, but my understanding is that the aim is to identify problems at an early stage and work with employer and employee to find solutions so that the employee can stay employed rather than waiting and possibly having the situation degenerate so that the employee ends up on invalidity pension. But as I said, don't know too much about it except that it can happen but should be taken as a sign employer is keen to keep employee and work with them. Although the process (in French at any rate) is known as as "denouncement", it is not a negative thing.
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But after how long does this 'early detection' process begin and what does it exactly entail? Is it successful to any extent?

Where I worked for example (a larger company), everyone who was off sick for a more than a couple of months (7 of us at that time) was simply referred to AI/IV and then all fired in any case, as an insurance company took over the payment of the monthly salary... the employer sees it as a chance to get rid of the old and tired existing and expensive employees, to bring in the new...
I'm afraid I don't know... as I said, this is something I have no experience in. However you can read more about it here: http://www.aivd.ch/index.php?option=...d=64&Itemid=76 and here: http://www.aivd.ch/index.php?option=...d=65&Itemid=77

The idea is to keep the person in work, either with adaptations or by training them to do a new role in the same company. So not what your old employer was doing.
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Old 09.08.2015, 10:19
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Re: medical leave for family/work related burnout

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The idea is to keep the person in work, either with adaptations or by training them to do a new role in the same company. So not what your old employer was doing.
Exactly, employers who do what mine did are generating massive burdens and costs with these cases for AI/IV as well as for social welfare, basically offloading 'costs' onto society.
However in part, they are essentially 'shooting themselves in the foot' as they end up paying out again to employees who do not get back on their feet within the 2-year pay-out time frame of the sick pay insurance policy, as once this has run out they (the employer) have to start paying the now-former employee (which they thought they had got rid of!) again in the form of AI/IV.
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Old 10.08.2015, 18:09
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Re: medical leave for family/work related burnout

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I'm going through the ordinary AI process
How long is that process taking?
The other process (initiated by employer), generally takes around a year for the decision to come through. I know this from my own experience and that of colleagues and acquaintances.
By 'ordinary' do you mean you applied it for yourself and/or through your doctor?
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Old 10.08.2015, 20:56
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Re: medical leave for family/work related burnout

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How long is that process taking?
The other process (initiated by employer), generally takes around a year for the decision to come through. I know this from my own experience and that of colleagues and acquaintances.
By 'ordinary' do you mean you applied it for yourself and/or through your doctor?
"Ordinary" AI = not détecttion précoce. My psychiatrist referred me.

I've been in the process for 5 years now... but my case is very complex. To be honest, I don't really want to go into details. And me going into details won't help the OP I'm sure.
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Old 10.08.2015, 21:29
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Re: medical leave for family/work related burnout

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"Ordinary" AI = not détecttion précoce. My psychiatrist referred me.

I've been in the process for 5 years now... but my case is very complex. To be honest, I don't really want to go into details. And me going into details won't help the OP I'm sure.
I fully understand that you do not want to into the details here (and am not asking you to!), and from having read some of your posts from the past years, I can see the case must be complex and impossible to explain properly here.

I didn't realise that a decision could take so long from AI/IV. I could only assume/deduce that the claim for AI/IV was rejected or only partially granted and you appealed or started a new application after the original one was closed. But of course I may be way off the mark.

I had thought that the decision has to be given within one year, or exceptionally if there are possibilities for work reintegration etc. then a maximum of two years.

As I previously mentioned, there were 7 of us who were fired whilst off sick where I was working; 3 of us used up the entire 2 years of sick pay and were granted IV/AI in the meantime, all within a year, the employer, one the two years of sick pay from the insurance company were up, then had to start paying us again! In my case, since I had worked in 3 other countries as well as Switzerland, those 3 countries benefits systems were also involved (although not in the decision itself for entitlement to the Swiss incapacity benefit).

I find the AI/IV extremely slow. For instance, I have a 'Renterevison', which has been ongoing now for over 18 months, and it's not nice not knowing what the decision is going to be, even if I know whatever the outcome, if it is not right for me, I can appeal. But to appeal you also need the energy!

Had you worked previously in the U.K.?

Whatever you are going through with AI, you have my understanding and sympathy, I hope it all works out for you.

Last edited by plumtree; 10.08.2015 at 21:53. Reason: minor edit
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Old 10.08.2015, 22:26
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Re: medical leave for family/work related burnout

I was talking to one of the senior HR bods at one of the pharmaceutical companies in Basel. Apparently burn-out among staff and managers is becoming increasingly a problem for them.

I'm glad your friend is seeking help. It's important to get a perspective on things - your health is more important than your employment status. There's not much to be gained by being employed right up until your drop dead from a heart attack brought on by stress.
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