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Old 02.09.2015, 23:04
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Divorce or legal annulment?

A friend married a young woman from the Philippines. They had the marriage in the Philippines and they are residing here in Switzerland.

The couple is having problems and my friend now feels that the spouse only married for money and the Swiss residence.

It appears that they can file for a divorce in either Switzerland or the Philippines, but may have to live legally separated for 2 years before it is legally finished.

Switzerland laws also talk about annulment of a marriage on certain grounds. Swiss Civil Code, Art. 105 specifies various grounds, including number 5, "one of the spouses has no intention of living with the other, but wishes to circumvent the provisions on the admission and residence of foreign nationals."

Can one of the spouses apply for an annulment on that basis or does a legal action have to be initiated by the authorities? How difficult is it for a spouse to prove that their partner was not sincere? If they have been married for a number of years without having children, does it make a stronger case for annulment on these grounds?
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Old 02.09.2015, 23:06
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Re: Divorce or legal annulment?

First post by username legalannulment, starts with My friend...

Really? Why don't you have the courage to say it was you? Or you found out that she is actually a he?!
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Old 02.09.2015, 23:13
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Re: Divorce or legal annulment?

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First post by username legalannulment, starts with My friend...
i had the same impression.
hope it was not like: he was 50 and single, she was 22, love at first sight etc.
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Old 02.09.2015, 23:17
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Re: Divorce or legal annulment?

Does any of that matter though?

Don't you think there may be more than one person reading here who may be interested in the same issue?
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Old 02.09.2015, 23:18
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Re: Divorce or legal annulment?

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Does any of that matter though?

Don't you think there may be more than one person reading here who may be interested in the same issue?
No I don't really think so, there cant be so many stupid people of EF at the same time.
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Old 02.09.2015, 23:24
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Re: Divorce or legal annulment?

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No I don't really think so, there cant be so many stupid people of EF at the same time.
It's on EF at the same time
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Old 02.09.2015, 23:49
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Re: Divorce or legal annulment?

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my friend now feels that the spouse only married for money and the Swiss residence.
No shit, Sherlock. Next you'll be telling us that she thinks your friend only married her for cheap sex with a submissive and easily exploited woman.
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Old 03.09.2015, 00:09
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Re: Divorce or legal annulment?

How long have they been married? I believe if they divorce within 5 years, the foreigner is sent home.
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Old 03.09.2015, 08:59
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Re: Divorce or legal annulment?

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How long have they been married? I believe if they divorce within 5 years, the foreigner is sent home.
Persons from non-EU/EFTA states
A divorced spouse’s or child’s existing residence permit may be extended provided:
  • the marriage lasted at least three years in Switzerland and the spouse / family lived together,
  • the persons concerned were successfully integrated in Switzerland (reputation, knowledge of the language, willingness to work) or
  • important personal circumstances make it necessary to continue living in Switzerland (e.g. persecution in their home country).


https://www.ch.ch/en/divorce/
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Old 03.09.2015, 09:09
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Re: Divorce or legal annulment?

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If they have been married for a number of years without having children, does it make a stronger case for annulment on these grounds?
No, that makes it weaker.

How many years?

Go for the divorce.

Tom
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Old 03.09.2015, 09:21
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Re: Divorce or legal annulment?

Of course there are some nasty people who marry a foreigner, decide that they want a more submissive and/or younger model, and then try the "just married for residency" card in order to dispose of the troublesome spouse.
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Old 03.09.2015, 09:35
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Re: Divorce or legal annulment?

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A friend married a young woman from the Philippines. They had the marriage in the Philippines and they are residing here in Switzerland.

The couple is having problems and my friend now feels that the spouse only married for money and the Swiss residence.

It appears that they can file for a divorce in either Switzerland or the Philippines, but may have to live legally separated for 2 years before it is legally finished.

Switzerland laws also talk about annulment of a marriage on certain grounds. Swiss Civil Code, Art. 105 specifies various grounds, including number 5, "one of the spouses has no intention of living with the other, but wishes to circumvent the provisions on the admission and residence of foreign nationals."

Can one of the spouses apply for an annulment on that basis or does a legal action have to be initiated by the authorities? How difficult is it for a spouse to prove that their partner was not sincere? If they have been married for a number of years without having children, does it make a stronger case for annulment on these grounds?
WOould it not be an idea for him to create an account and post himself instead of you doing it as an intermediary? Maybe that will make the facts clearer.

Last edited by Richdog; 03.09.2015 at 10:47.
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Old 03.09.2015, 09:55
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Re: Divorce or legal annulment?

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Does any of that matter though?

Don't you think there may be more than one person reading here who may be interested in the same issue?
Probably not as interested as you...............
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Old 03.09.2015, 10:12
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Re: Divorce or legal annulment?

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Of course there are some nasty people who marry a foreigner, decide that they want a more submissive and/or younger model, and then try the "just married for residency" card in order to dispose of the troublesome spouse.
... not meaning that the "just married for residency" doesn't exist.
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Old 03.09.2015, 10:27
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Re: Divorce or legal annulment?

Quote:
A divorced spouse’s or child’s existing residence permit may be extended provided:
I don't think my friend really cares whether or not her permit is extended. Once they are split, that is none of his business anyway. He is just looking at how he can go about finding a partner who is more serious about starting a family and if he finds the right person, whether it is now or in 3 or 4 years, he wants to be able to fully commit to that and not have this prior relationship hanging over him forever.

A lot of these comments about submissive foreign wives are really far from the truth of the situation too. The woman in question isn't some farm girl who doesn't speak any of the local languages here, it is just over 5 years they are married and living here together. 1 in 3 marriages are failing in most western countries and it is for many reasons. There are also many people who start a marriage with somebody who is from a different country or income level and fully enjoy whatever it is they choose to do together as adults. It is actually quite disparaging to women to suggest that they don't know what they are getting into.
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Old 03.09.2015, 10:47
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Re: Divorce or legal annulment?

Married for over five years and thinking of an annulment?

Forget it, divorce is the only legal option.

Tom
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Old 03.09.2015, 12:04
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Re: Divorce or legal annulment?

The Catholic church has been granting annulments to people even if they were married for longer and had kiddies along the way.

The criteria for the annulment (either legal or church) doesn't appear to be based on the amount of time that passed, at least, it is not written that way in the Swiss Civil Code.

The question is about what the spouses intended on the day they wed: hypothetically, if the foreign spouse wrote a letter to a bridesmaid a week before the wedding stating "I don't really like this guy but I'm going to marry him for a visa" then any time in the future, any number of children later, if the guy got his hands on that letter, couldn't he request annulment rather than divorce?

If such a letter does not exist though, what other evidence would potentially help a spouse obtain an annulment?

Two of the other things that come up in church annulments are mental health (such as a spouse who was abused as a child and can't fully commit to making kiddies) and ongoing contraception or abortion. Does such evidence have any role in a civil/legal annulment under Swiss law?
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Old 03.09.2015, 12:09
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Re: Divorce or legal annulment?

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The Catholic church has been granting annulments to people even if they were married for longer and had kiddies along the way.

The criteria for the annulment (either legal or church) doesn't appear to be based on the amount of time that passed, at least, it is not written that way in the Swiss Civil Code.

The question is about what the spouses intended on the day they wed: hypothetically, if the foreign spouse wrote a letter to a bridesmaid a week before the wedding stating "I don't really like this guy but I'm going to marry him for a visa" then any time in the future, any number of children later, if the guy got his hands on that letter, couldn't he request annulment rather than divorce?

If such a letter does not exist though, what other evidence would potentially help a spouse obtain an annulment?

Two of the other things that come up in church annulments are mental health (such as a spouse who was abused as a child and can't fully commit to making kiddies) and ongoing contraception or abortion. Does such evidence have any role in a civil/legal annulment under Swiss law?
To my knowledge these are the reasons for annulment:

Bigamy - either party was already married to another person at the time of the marriage
Forced Consent - one of the spouses was forced or threatened into marriage and only entered into it under duress
Fraud - one of the spouses agreed to the marriage based on the lies or misrepresentation of the other
Marriage Prohibited By Law - marriage between parties that based on their familial relationship is considered incestuous
Mental Illness - either spouse was mentally ill or emotionally disturbed at the time of the marriage
Mental Incapacity - either spouse was under the influence of alcohol or drugs at the time of the marriage and was unable to make informed consent
Inability to Consummate Marriage - either spouse was physically incapable of having sexual relations or impotent during the marriage
Underage Marriage - either spouse was too young to enter into marriage without parental consent or court approval


but I do not know whether these all apply in Switzerland (and mind, a church annulment is not the same as a legal annulment

Last edited by roegner; 03.09.2015 at 12:10. Reason: Grammar/adding
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Old 03.09.2015, 12:10
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Re: Divorce or legal annulment?

You can divorce any time - but if the other party disagrees you'll have to wait 2 years.

2 years will pass you can then can file for divorce - and then spend x number of years going back and forth until you agree.

Disposing of a wife is, unsurprisingly, a little more difficult than paper or cardboard.
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Old 03.09.2015, 12:14
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Re: Divorce or legal annulment?

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The Catholic church has been granting annulments to people even if they were married for longer and had kiddies along the way.

The criteria for the annulment (either legal or church) doesn't appear to be based on the amount of time that passed, at least, it is not written that way in the Swiss Civil Code.

The question is about what the spouses intended on the day they wed: hypothetically, if the foreign spouse wrote a letter to a bridesmaid a week before the wedding stating "I don't really like this guy but I'm going to marry him for a visa" then any time in the future, any number of children later, if the guy got his hands on that letter, couldn't he request annulment rather than divorce?

If such a letter does not exist though, what other evidence would potentially help a spouse obtain an annulment?

Two of the other things that come up in church annulments are mental health (such as a spouse who was abused as a child and can't fully commit to making kiddies) and ongoing contraception or abortion. Does such evidence have any role in a civil/legal annulment under Swiss law?
Are you really stupid?
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