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Old 27.09.2015, 22:21
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Inheritance right / Apartment ownership / is a will necessary in this case?

Hi, a question to which I will anyway ask a notary for an answer but maybe someone has some experience?

- I’m going to purchase an apparent, and I will be the (only) owner of this apartment.

- I’m in a registered partnership, with the default “régime matrimonial” which is “separation of property”, meaning that between me and my partner there is no common property, everything is either mine or his. In case of divorce, mine is mine and his is his, there is nothing to divide.

- On the other hand, as registered partner, we are treated in the swiss civil code the same way as married couple in term of inheritance/next of kin (regardless of the régime matrimonial).

- We do not have child. I have my parents still alive, but no brothers or sisters.

From what I understand from swiss law. If I decease:
- If my parents are still alive, then all my properties (e.g. the apartment) will be ˝ to my partner, and ˝ to my parents.
- If my parents are no longer alive, then all my properties will belong entirely to my partner.
Is my understanding correct?

This is also exactly what I wish in case if I decease. So it seems to me that I do not need to make a will or something to make it explicit, as it is already implied by the law?

I have this question because today one of my friends (who is an avocat) advised me to make a "pacte successoral" as I'm about do an important investment (the apartment). But I doubt if it is necessary.
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Old 27.09.2015, 22:28
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Re: Inheritance right / Apartment ownership / is a will necessary in this case?

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Hi, a question to which I will anyway ask a notary for an answer but maybe someone has some experience?

- I’m going to purchase an apparent, and I will be the (only) owner of this apartment.

- I’m in a registered partnership, with the default “régime matrimonial” which is “separation of property”, meaning that between me and my partner there is no common property, everything is either mine or his. In case of divorce, mine is mine and his is his, there is nothing to divide.

- On the other hand, as registered partner, we are treated in the swiss civil code the same way as married couple in term of inheritance/next of kin (regardless of the régime matrimonial).

- We do not have child. I have my parents still alive, but no brothers or sisters.

From what I understand from swiss law. If I decease:
- If my parents are still alive, then all my properties (e.g. the apartment) will be ˝ to my partner, and ˝ to my parents.
- If my parents are no longer alive, then all my properties will belong entirely to my partner.
Is my understanding correct?

This is also exactly what I wish in case if I decease. So it seems to me that I do not need to make a will or something to make it explicit, as it is already implied by the law?

I have this question because today one of my friends (who is an avocat) advised me to make a "pacte successoral" as I'm about do an important investment (the apartment). But I doubt if it is necessary.
Yes this is correct, almost.

The marital regime only appies in case of divorce.

In case of death, everything is split by law.

However, if you have no children, half will go to your parents, or, lacking those, the closest relatives, the other half to your spouse.

With a will, you can give 1/4 to whomever, and the rest is split by law, i.e. give 1/4 to spouse, then the other 3/4 is split as above, such that the spouse gets 3/8, and the relatives 3/8.

That's why my friend had his first kid at 60, as he hates his sister, all will go to his son (as he's not married).

Tom
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Old 27.09.2015, 22:36
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Re: Inheritance right / Apartment ownership / is a will necessary in this case?

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Yes this is correct, almost.

The marital regime only appies in case of divorce.

In case of death, everything is split by law.

However, if you have no children, half will go to your parents, or, lacking those, the closest relatives, the other half to your spouse.

With a will, you can give 1/4 to whomever, and the rest is split by law, i.e. give 1/4 to spouse, then the other 3/4 is split as above, such that the spouse gets 3/8, and the relatives 3/8.

That's why my friend had his first kid at 60, as he hates his sister, all will go to his son (as he's not married).

Tom
Well, for me, in case of death, if my parents are still alive, then 1/2 to my parents and 1/2 to my partner; otherwise, 100% to my partner. This is what I want and is implied by the law. So I do not see the point why I should do something to make it explicit.

My lawyer friend told me that I should do either:
- a notarised will, or
- a "pacte successoral"

And I did not know what is a "pacte successoral". It seems a different thing much more complex than a will. Why make it so complex...
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Old 27.09.2015, 22:52
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Re: Inheritance right / Apartment ownership / is a will necessary in this case?

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Well, for me, in case of death, if my parents are still alive, then 1/2 to my parents and 1/2 to my partner; otherwise, 100% to my partner. This is what I want and is implied by the law.
Nope.

If they have any other cousins, even 2nd, 3rd, etc., the part of the parents goes to them.

Sorry, but it DOES work that way, and not just in CH, Italy as well, France, etc.

For example, my wife's great-grand-mother-s brother had no children, but was married.

When he died, half went to his wife, half to my wife's grandmother, however the great-great-aunt had usofrutto. Upon her death, ALL went to my wife's grandmother, despite attempts to leave it her (the gggm-s) lover.

The only way to leave ALL to your spouse is to track down all possible heirs, and get them to renounce their share.

Sorry, just the way it works.

Tom
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Old 27.09.2015, 22:57
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Re: Inheritance right / Apartment ownership / is a will necessary in this case?

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Nope.

If they have any other cousins, even 2nd, 3rd, etc., the part of the parents goes to them.

Sorry, but it DOES work that way, and not just in CH, Italy as well, France, etc.

For example, my wife's great-grand-mother-s brother had no children, but was married.

When he died, half went to his wife, half to my wife's grandmother, however the great-great-aunt had usofrutto. Upon her death, ALL went to my wife's grandmother, despite attempts to leave it her (the gggm-s) lover.

The only way to leave ALL to your spouse is to track down all possible heirs, and get them to renounce their share.

Sorry, just the way it works.

Tom
I thought that, in case of no parents/child, no brothers/sisters, only spouse, then by default 100% goes to the spouse. My cousins or other relatives here have nothing to do as long as my spouse is alive... Cousins and other relatives only play a role if no spouse/child/parents/siblings are presnt. Isn't that true?
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Old 27.09.2015, 23:21
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Re: Inheritance right / Apartment ownership / is a will necessary in this case?

There is not only the apartment but also your 2nd pillar, bank accounts, and other possible valuables.

How will it get split 50:50? (By law each of them get a half of the apartment, and half of the money, etc.)
What if your parents have no interest in the apartment?
Who has the right to live in the apartment?
Who has the duty to pay the mortgage and what happens if one side defaults?
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Old 27.09.2015, 23:26
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Re: Inheritance right / Apartment ownership / is a will necessary in this case?

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I thought that, in case of no parents/child, no brothers/sisters, only spouse, then by default 100% goes to the spouse. My cousins or other relatives here have nothing to do as long as my spouse is alive... Cousins and other relatives only play a role if no spouse/child/parents/siblings are presnt. Isn't that true?
If there is no offspring, no mother nor father, no brother nor sister, no nice nor nephew, no grand nice or grand nephew etc. Then all goes to the partner.

https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...ndex.html#a462
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Old 27.09.2015, 23:58
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Re: Inheritance right / Apartment ownership / is a will necessary in this case?

st2lemans and ASwissintheUSA brought up an important point that you need to address. If the apartment is split between your partner and your parents, your parents can force the sale of the apartment to get their money unless you specify that your partner can live there until he/she passes. This is the concept of "usufruct" or "life interest" in English. In French it is called "usufruit".

Here is a link in FR about the concept. http://www.generations-plus.ch/?q=ma...-testamentaire

Hence the need to put this stuff down in writing via a Notary so things are clear for everyone concerned.
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Old 28.09.2015, 00:00
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Re: Inheritance right / Apartment ownership / is a will necessary in this case?

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If there is no offspring, no mother nor father, no brother nor sister, no nice nor nephew, no grand nice or grand nephew etc. Then all goes to the partner.

https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...ndex.html#a462
Unless your spouse dies first, then it all goes to your hated distant cousin.

Tom
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Old 28.09.2015, 00:04
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Re: Inheritance right / Apartment ownership / is a will necessary in this case?

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st2lemans and ASwissintheUSA brought up an important point that you need to address. If the apartment is split between your partner and your parents, your parents can force the sale of the apartment to get their money unless you specify that your partner can live there until he/she passes. This is the concept of "usufruct" or "life interest" in English. In French it is called "usufruit".
Actually, when we bought our place last year, this was brought up and included by our attorney/notary (same person), BUT we are co-owners.

OP is sole owner, so not quite the same, and he really needs to check with a lawyer.

Tom
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Old 28.09.2015, 00:21
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Re: Inheritance right / Apartment ownership / is a will necessary in this case?

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Unless your spouse dies first, then it all goes to your hated distant cousin.

Tom
Or just spend it having fun
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Old 28.09.2015, 09:35
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Re: Inheritance right / Apartment ownership / is a will necessary in this case?

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This is also exactly what I wish in case if I decease. So it seems to me that I do not need to make a will or something to make it explicit, as it is already implied by the law?
. . .
My suggestion: write a will anyway. It will minimise the risk of leaving disputes behind you. Ensure that the format is valid for Switzerland (handwritten, signed, dated etc.). Think about who you want to appoint as executor (Ger: Willensvollstrecker). Lots of firms (Banks, Notars etc.) offer this service because they can milk 3-5% out of the estate for very little effort, however this can also minimise the scope for disputes amongst your next of kin.
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