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Old 01.12.2015, 11:45
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Sleep, Blue Light, White Light, SAD, Depression

Ok, another one for the great minds on EF.

i'm really enjoying my Lifx wakeup light.

While looking into the whole wakeup light simulation thing, these blue and white lights came up in the searches as beneficial when used with the (for example) philips sunrise wake up light.

Does anyone have any thoughts on these, even if you dont suffer from sad or depression?

along with iron deficiency, i was also low on vit D and was given some bottles of vit D from the doctor, the ingredients are alcohol and some sugars i dont want to eat so I wonder if the light might kill a few birds with one stone

- getting enough light (and vit d) in winter, you can go to and from work and not see daylight for 5 months here! (correction these lights dont help with vit d-)
- might improve energy levels and why not.
- would fit into my lifestyle, turn it on during a 15 minute coffee every morning
- on internet it says some people have them at work?

These seem the most reviewed on amazon, but to be fair many the 4-5 star reviews are from the 'vine free device to review' people.

the blue lights are the smaller more portable dont take up a lot of space ones. the white seem quite large.

Any success stories with these?

Crazy bonus question, but do they help with pms?

Philips goLITE BLU Light Therapy Device
from Philips


sleep-blue-light-white-light-sad-depression-blight1.jpg

Philips GoLITE BLU Energy Light, Rechargeable
from Philips


sleep-blue-light-white-light-sad-depression-bluelight2.jpg

Philips GoLITE BLU Energy Light
from Philips


sleep-blue-light-white-light-sad-depression-blight3.jpg

Aura Light Therapy Lamp. 10,000 Lux of White Light, UV FREE

sleep-blue-light-white-light-sad-depression-wlight1.jpg

Philips Hf3318/60 Energylight, White
from Philips


sleep-blue-light-white-light-sad-depression-wlight2.jpg

Last edited by CathHarmony; 01.12.2015 at 12:13.
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Old 01.12.2015, 13:42
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Re: Sleep, Blue Light, White Light, SAD, Depression

We were just talking this morning about maybe getting a happy light, so I'd be interested hearing people's general experience with them too.
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Old 01.12.2015, 13:53
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Re: Sleep, Blue Light, White Light, SAD, Depression

Wear less clothes! I notice people totally wrapped up with hardly any skin showing, hats, scarves, gloves .. When it's like 12-14 degrees!!

Me .. Shorts and t-shirt all year if I'm just around the village, local shops, kids to school etc. Plus my head acts a good solar panel.

Yeah I dress appropriately for the skiing etc .. but really people wrap do completely hide from the sun all year.
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Old 01.12.2015, 13:55
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Re: Sleep, Blue Light, White Light, SAD, Depression

In Aldi, at the moment they have some multi-colour and effect changing lights for not too much money.

I think these are supposed to be 'mood' lights and come with a remote control.

Two sorts of lamp, that come with one bulb, each (globe or table lamp) , for 39,90, or two bulbs only (without lamp, but also with remote) for 59,90.

Brand is Müller iDual : http://www.mueller-licht.de/idual/ play the video, to see.

(although I prefer my more cost effective method ...... place an upturned goldfish bowl over a table lamp fitted with a halogen bulb and fill the goldfish bowl with moths and butterflies, then switch on)

Last edited by TiMow; 01.12.2015 at 14:06.
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Old 01.12.2015, 14:08
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Re: Sleep, Blue Light, White Light, SAD, Depression

Mood lights and those "healthy" ones in this thread are as I understand quite different. We have one of those remote controlled Philips light changing things and it is simply three color LEDs that can be leveled to produce any color like one giant piece of a TV screen.

THose health lights come at certain color temperatures and without UV light and are supposed to have a real health effect, not just turn your living room blue.

I just bought a wake up light. If this works for us will I consider the next thing...
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Old 01.12.2015, 17:32
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Re: Sleep, Blue Light, White Light, SAD, Depression

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Me .. Shorts and t-shirt all year
You're a Geordie, aren't you...?
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Old 01.12.2015, 22:31
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Re: Sleep, Blue Light, White Light, SAD, Depression

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You're a Geordie, aren't you...?
Further north than Geordie land!

Still haven't turned the heating on or closed the windows yet.
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Old 01.12.2015, 22:40
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Re: Sleep, Blue Light, White Light, SAD, Depression

Is it me or have other people suffered sleep problems because there seems to be less light pollution here? I swear I'm climbing the walls on a full moon, most of the places I lived in the uk just had a universal yellow glow at night and it never bothered me, but here and having a bit of insomina? oh yeah, the moon is out.
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Old 01.12.2015, 23:42
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Re: Sleep, Blue Light, White Light, SAD, Depression

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...Does anyone have any thoughts on these...?

Any success stories with these?

Crazy bonus question, but do they help with pms?
I can't comment on specific models, but I've had a wake-up light model for years. I don't need it any more (spouse wakes me up when he gets up) but when I was on my own it made a big difference. I woke up gradually as the light got brighter, as opposed to jumping at the sound of an alarm.

The light is also suitable for SAD treatment, and I still use it on horrible dark days here. Just 15 minutes makes a big difference.

I never took mine to work, but I had a colleague a few years back who kept one at her desk. She was always bubbly and cheerful so it must have helped!

Keep in mind you shouldn't use these in the evening, as part of the idea of light therapy is to keep you awake. No, they don't help you produce Vitamin D. I have no idea if it helps with PMS. You should not stare directly into the lights for any length of time. People with bipolar should check with their doctors, as supposedly light therapy can trigger manic episodes.

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Is it me or have other people suffered sleep problems because there seems to be less light pollution here?
I have to say the neighbor's flashing Christmas lights until midnight are far more bothersome than the full moon right now. But yes, we live in a rural area with very little light pollution and we struggle to sleep well when there's a full moon.
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Old 02.12.2015, 10:05
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Re: Sleep, Blue Light, White Light, SAD, Depression

Used to have serious depression problems, especially while living in Norway. Going from Montreal to a city close to the Artic Circle with 300 days of rain per year was a shock for the body and the soul.

I've been using a sunrise alarm clock for the last 10 years, and it really makes a big difference in my energy level and mood in the morning. Now even our son has one in his bedroom. In Norway it was downright essential in winter, otherwise I was grumpy all day. In the summer we don't need it, we use the real sun as an alarm. None of us needs a pitch dark room to sleep anymore.

I can even tell if I have had enough sleep by the way I wake up. If I wake up from the sunrise only, I've had enough sleep. If I wake up from the alarm noise coming from the Troll's bedroom (a cheerful cocorico), I know I went to bed too late or didn't sleep well. Most of the time we're all up before the sound alarm. Good sleep quality has been a key factor in improving my moods.

I've also had a white light lamp in my office in Norway. It was recommended to me by a colleague. I can't say it made any difference though, at least not that I could notice, and I didn't take it with me to Switzerland.

What I noticed has had a big impact on my overall well-being has been to be outside for a few hours at least once a week, either for hiking or skiing. Right now I'm experiencing a big energy slump which I'm sure is related to my in-between season status; I haven't hiked for a couple of weeks and haven't started skiing yet. I really feel sluggish.

Conclusion: the Troll family is a firm believer in sunrise alarm clocks, somewhat more reserved about special SAD lights and very enthousiastic about outdoor activities as a way to deal with depression symptoms.
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Old 02.12.2015, 10:19
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Re: Sleep, Blue Light, White Light, SAD, Depression

You (Original Poster, OP) raised some topics raised here. 1. Vitamin D deficiency. 2. Lights. 3. iron deficiency

You have vitamin D and iron deficiency, both will make you feel tired. plus winter darkness... thats a grind.

I am about to be a tad direct with you, so hang in there, and no offence intended.

1. On the Vitamin D deficiency.

Maybe reconsider the decision your point of view, before you really commit. You have an easy safe solution but are choosing not to take it. Why is this? We all over-use Dr Google, and some of us resist being told what to do, or dont like having to take stuff (accepting we're getting old, or need meds or help...etc), but I suggest you follow your doctor's orders, or raise your concerns with them, rather than deciding you know better than a medically trained professional because you read a label and didn't like what you read.

If you had an extra 10 minutes conversation with them, they would give you all the information needed to address your doubts and concerns, verses the significant risks of continued Vit D deficiency, and the long term health consequences for you.

I am not a doctor, but:

Your objection seems to be sugar and alcohol. Its very cheap to buy this stuff at the pharmacy, and you could ask for one without sugar. Like 3 or 4 francs a bottle. Assuming you have been given what i was given, Vi-De 3 Cholecalciferol drops (4500 U.I./ml) and told to take 20 drops per day, you will be drinking a tiny amount of alcohol. Pure ethanol tastes slightly sweet, and maybe the Vit D does too. I don't see sugar listed on the label of mine.

Put more precisely, in metric measurements, with a drop being rounded to 0.05 mL (that is, 20 drops per milliliter), you will get 1/2 a ML of alcohol, which is 1/60th of a "shot", so hardly anything. Add it to water and you'll barely taste it.

Vitamin D deficiency will make you tired, make your bones soft, increase your risk of colon cancer and heart disease, and screws with the functioning of a whole range of organs. There is no doubt this deficiency is bad for you as an adult (its not just rickets in kids).

If diet and sunlight don't give you enough, like me, you need to take the supplement. (I got a LOT of sun over summer and eat a LOT of fish and dairy and yet I recently found out I am deficient). Malabsorption (guts) and being overweight is also a cause (as the D produced in your skin gets sucked up into your fat and doesn't go to the bloodstream where it needs to be)

So, to me, taking the supplement, even with a few drops of alcohol to kick off the day, is a clear winner. For deficient people. Some researchers are saying all people should be on it, because of reduced morbidity/mortality.

Plus at the very least, it gives you a nice kick in the morning!

2. lights. There is good scientific evidence out there that light therapy helps mood, especially blue (but some evidence for green too).

As every little bit helps, and I never find indoor lights bright enough in Swiss winters, I have a desk light like the one 2nd from the bottom on my desk facing me all day, offset about 20 degrees from my screen, to simulate a longer span of daylight (form before it gets light until after it gets dark). The idea is to tell your brain, which detects this via your eyes, that it is daytime and to Wake the F. up, or in my case, Stay the F. awake!

For me it works.

I also have a phillips dawn simulating wake up light. Even if it did nothing for telling my brain that it is indeed dawn (which is the whole idea), a gentle increasing light in the room is a very gentle way to wake up, amazing and not jarring like an alarm, so i'd recommend it.

And the bright white light at my desk seems to help me feel awake in winter. Neither of my lights are blue, which apparently are even better.

You mentioned maybe sitting by a light while having your coffee - i think that would really only have an effect (in such a small amount of time) with one of those 100,000 lumen light boxes. These are more common in the latitudes waaay north.

3. iron and PMS. Sorry, cant help there.
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Old 02.12.2015, 10:35
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Re: Sleep, Blue Light, White Light, SAD, Depression

We have a philips sunrise light and love it - it does make waking up in the winter mornings much easier. You set the time you want sunrise to be, and for the half hour before that time it slowly slowly switches on til at full brightness at your set time.

I have to remember to set it to come on though every day, and the nights when I forget, the mornings are that much harder!!


Re the Vitamin D drops (with alcohol), having had kids here, we had to give Vit D drops when they were babies. The alcohol based drops taste disgusting and were a struggle. Until our paediatrician suggested an alternative. Vitamin D is a fat soluble vitamin, and there is a an oil based preparation that is much easier to palate, almost tasteless - it's generically called 'Oleovit D3', I believe. This is the one we had.
Maybe you could ask your doc for a new prescription for the oil based drops.

Last edited by jot; 02.12.2015 at 11:00.
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Old 02.12.2015, 10:41
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Re: Sleep, Blue Light, White Light, SAD, Depression

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The alcohol based drops taste disgusting and were a struggle.
...Or don't take it "straight" - add it to a mixer, like a small glass of water.
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Old 02.12.2015, 11:02
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Re: Sleep, Blue Light, White Light, SAD, Depression

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...Or don't take it "straight" - add it to a mixer, like a small glass of water.
Easier said than done with babies! But for adults, yes, dilution is also an option.
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Old 02.12.2015, 12:27
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Re: Sleep, Blue Light, White Light, SAD, Depression

About your question on Vitamin D and iron deficiency, if you aren't a vegetarian you should be able to sustain normal levels through your diet although if the deficiency is severe you would have to take supplements as prescribed by your doctors first.

Eating fatty fish (salmon, sardines, mackerel, tuna) 2-3 times a week does the job for most people. Bearing in mind that the day is much shorter there (up north the sun doesn't come up for a couple of months), sun isn't enough to sustain adequate Vit D levels, in Norway, the single food supplement recommended by doctors is cod liver oil. We do both in the winter, only the fish part the rest of the year. Combined with being outside as much as possible, it's more than enough.

But again, if you're really low and/or if you're a vegetarian, you might have to take supplements. Your doctor might be able to find a supplement without alcohol and sugar, otherwise keep in mind it's only for a short period and health should come before your nutritional credo.

For the iron deficiency, again, once it's been brought to a normal level using prescription supplements it should be possible to maintain it with food, although it's a bit more difficult for vegetarians (but far from impossible). You don't need that much meat to get there; we only eat meat once a week (not always red meat), and not even every week. It's all about combining the right food and planning a bit.

For the PMS, sorry I can't help. Mine went away when I quit the pill, along with a few other health issues. However, we did get a kid and not everyone wants that.
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Old 02.12.2015, 18:43
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Re: Sleep, Blue Light, White Light, SAD, Depression

i stopped taking the vit d and started recently again, i noticed i'd 'forgotten', it being winter prompted me to start again. i have all the bottles for the whole treatment, so not wanting to throw it away i'll suck it up so to speak. thanks for all the thoughts.

i too think the sunrise light really is wonderful, its transformed my mornings, and as a result also the rest of the day. i use it to get up at 5 to learn more german, this is nowhere near as bad as it sounds with a sunrise lamp.

i'm curious about the blue lights, sometimes in the evening, i feel like i'm only good for a few hours of couch potatoing, i'd like to get a bit more done and wondered if these might help, i think for that you have to use them in the evening.
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Old 02.12.2015, 19:27
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Re: Sleep, Blue Light, White Light, SAD, Depression

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...i'm curious about the blue lights, sometimes in the evening, i feel like i'm only good for a few hours of couch potatoing, i'd like to get a bit more done and wondered if these might help, i think for that you have to use them in the evening.
I'd balance it with your need for sleep. The blue lights are intended to wake you up and keep you alert. Great if you're getting up, but maybe not ideal if you want to wind down and go to bed soon. One of the most common tips to get a better night's sleep is to turn off your TV and computer because of the blue light.
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Old 02.12.2015, 21:13
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Re: Sleep, Blue Light, White Light, SAD, Depression

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I'd balance it with your need for sleep. The blue lights are intended to wake you up and keep you alert. Great if you're getting up, but maybe not ideal if you want to wind down and go to bed soon. One of the most common tips to get a better night's sleep is to turn off your TV and computer because of the blue light.
funny you should say that, have you seen f.lux software to make you life better ! (their words ), i downloaded it yesterday. it changes the mac light to a very pleasant warm colour if you want at sunset or at a time of your chosing.

It even works better than shades (which u can use to lower mac crazy bright mac screen in a dark room)

problem is it inteferes with shades and now i have to find a way to uninstall shades which is now corrupt, at least on el capitain. so if you are thinking of doing this, uninstall shades first.

this is the reasoning behind it from wiki

Efficacy
f.lux proponents hypothesise that altering the color temperature of a display to reduce the prominence of blue light at night will improve the effectiveness of sleep. Reducing exposure to blue light at night time has been linked to increased melatonin secretion,[4] but f.lux itself has not been scientifically tested to determine its efficacy. f.lux provides a list of relevant scientific research on their website.

Last edited by CathHarmony; 02.12.2015 at 21:19. Reason: added wiki
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Old 03.12.2015, 09:24
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Re: Sleep, Blue Light, White Light, SAD, Depression

I know the feeling.. I just came back from Australia to Geneva where the sun rises at 8! Thats way depressing...
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Old 04.12.2015, 13:09
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Re: Sleep, Blue Light, White Light, SAD, Depression

I am convinced Mark Givert has the fix for everybody - a Cocoon changes life in many ways you would never regret

http://www.get-fitt.com/
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