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  #61  
Old 11.04.2016, 16:06
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Re: Vaccine Question

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I do keep an eye on the scientific evidences of course, but apparently the anti-vaxx are based on scientific evidences too....
I very much doubt it. Any references, from peer-reviewed journals rather than personal anecdotes of 'doctors'?
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  #62  
Old 11.04.2016, 16:07
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Re: Vaccine Question

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I do keep an eye on the scientific evidences of course, but apparently the anti-vaxx are based on scientific evidences too....
Care to share some with us?
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  #63  
Old 11.04.2016, 16:10
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Re: Vaccine Question

Most things have a risk factor:


http://www.darwinawards.com/


Why take unnecessary ones? I personally get very twitchy if Little Rufus is in a close environment with a un-vaccinated child.


Question - do you have a dog, JulianaW? If so, has he/she got all the necessary jabs etc or is that a risk too?
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  #64  
Old 11.04.2016, 16:17
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Re: Vaccine Question

There was that Appenzeller who said, "What, me getting a flu shot? I'm not that stupid. Toni Sonderegger over in Heiden, the blacksmith, you know, had a flu shot, and four weeks later he went bankrupt."

Last edited by Captain Greybeard; 11.04.2016 at 16:33. Reason: Can't even correctly spell a Swiss name!
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  #65  
Old 11.04.2016, 16:19
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Re: Vaccine Question

You can always choose to make up your own mind:

Aegis Austria

Impuls magazine download

You'll actually read articles written by doctors, not tree hugging, scarf wearing weirdos.
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  #66  
Old 11.04.2016, 16:20
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Re: Vaccine Question

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Question - do you have a dog, JulianaW? If so, has he/she got all the necessary jabs etc or is that a risk too?
this is EF. You can get away with not vaccinating your child but beware if you do the same with a dog
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  #67  
Old 11.04.2016, 16:25
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Re: Vaccine Question

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I do keep an eye on the scientific evidences of course, but apparently the anti-vaxx are based on scientific evidences too....
The scientific evidence should be your only source of information, more than just 'keeping an eye on it'. If you're not able to understand scientific publications (no shame there), organisations such as the NHS or CDC present the science in more layman-friendly terms on their websites. Notice that legitimate sources of information on vaccines readily admit that there is a (tiny) chance of side effects. If a website is claiming that a vaccine WILL give your child some horrible condition or WON'T work as intended then it's almost certainly bull. The anti-vax crowd repeatedly claim that their view is based on science, but repeatedly cite studies with poor methodology (or fabricated results!) that have been heavily criticised by mainstream scientists.

On a different note, don't forget that every time you and your family get on a plane, there is a non-zero risk that it will crash with potentially catastrophic consequences. I'm sure that no matter how many pictures you see of crash sites or testimonies you read from people who've lost loved ones, you will still decide that the benefits of fast air travel outweigh this tiny risk, and that you sufficiently trust the expertise of the pilots and engineers. Such a risk/benefit analysis that is so highly skewed towards benefits is exactly the situation with vaccines, yet for some reason people who wouldn't think twice before getting on a plane lose their minds over vaccines.

Last edited by Cornetto; 11.04.2016 at 16:28. Reason: Added an extra point to make my argument clearer.
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  #68  
Old 11.04.2016, 16:27
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Re: Vaccine Question

We had a little scariness with our youngest, one of first vaccinations in the UK - NHS**, caused her to swell up and change colour, she was taken to hospital and they said it was some kind of reaction - but in nutshell she recovered pretty quickly and no real investigation was ever done there. They said she should be vaccinated in the hospital next time because the reaction could be worse..or serious..

Fast forward a month to moving to CH and registering with the pediatrician here. She did some research and a set of blood tests, decided it was a white cell thing which caused the problem, gave her an anti-histamine injection first and job done, no bad reactions to the further vaccinations.

But we didn't really consider not continuing with further vaccinations.

**The service in the UK was terrible.. When she reacted to the vaccination the doctor said '..hmm I've never seen this before, you should probably take her to hospital now..looks quite serious..' Just what you want to hear.

The paed here was quite the opposite, '..sounds like alergy, lets research and test for it..it'll be fine..'
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  #69  
Old 11.04.2016, 16:27
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Re: Vaccine Question

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this is EF. You can get away with not vaccinating your child but beware if you do the same with a dog

Actually, no. There are people who cannot vax their dogs because of health issues. Some of them might even be on EF. But those of us who can vax our dogs do so to preserve herd immunity.
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  #70  
Old 11.04.2016, 16:33
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Re: Vaccine Question

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I do keep an eye on the scientific evidences of course, but apparently the anti-vaxx are based on scientific evidences too....
They claim to be. However, if you are unable to determine whether their claim is valid or not, the sensible, safe, rational approach is to go with the consensus
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  #71  
Old 11.04.2016, 17:04
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Re: Vaccine Question

Anti-vaxxers who are able to vaccinate their children (e.g. vaccinations are not medically contraindicated) choose not to, and are thus then dependent upon the herd immunity provided by the individuals who are vaccinated.

This is an irony that completely incenses me. That level of arrogance is simply staggering.
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  #72  
Old 11.04.2016, 17:08
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Re: Vaccine Question

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Also if you're looking beyond the "vaccines are safe" dogma and check the prescription of a vaccine, you would find lot the side effects including death.
Here's a list of adverse reactions/side effects:

Cardiovascular risk
- an increased risk of serious cardiovascular thrombotic events, myocardial infarction, and stroke, which can be fatal.

Gastrointestinal risk
- an increased risk of serious gastrointestinal adverse events including bleeding, ulceration, and perforation of the stomach or intestines, which can be fatal.

Serious side effects
- chest pain, weakness, shortness of breath, slurred speech, problems with vision or balance;
- black, bloody, or tarry stools, coughing up blood or vomit that looks like coffee grounds;
- swelling or rapid weight gain;
- urinating less than usual or not at all;
- nausea, upper stomach pain, itching, loss of appetite, dark urine, clay-colored stools, jaundice (yellowing of the skin or eyes);
- fever, sore throat, and headache with a severe blistering, peeling, and red skin rash;
- bruising, severe tingling, numbness, pain, muscle weakness;
- severe headache, neck stiffness, chills, increased sensitivity to light, and/or seizure (convulsions).

Less serious side effects
- upset stomach, mild heartburn, diarrhea, constipation;
- bloating, gas;
- dizziness, headache, nervousness;
- skin itching or rash;
- blurred vision;
- ringing in your ears.

The above is a list of the potential side effects for ibuprofen. You may know this as Advil, or maybe Nurofen. I hope you do your research really thoroughly next time you have a headache.

Please see PaddyG's earlier post for an explanation of adverse reactions. And please do vaccinate your children, firstly for their benefit, and secondly to help protect those children around yours who are too young or too ill to be vaccinated, or whose parents are too stupid or too selfish to afford them the protection they too could receive from vaccination.
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  #73  
Old 11.04.2016, 17:10
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Re: Vaccine Question

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Anti-vaxxers who are able to vaccinate their children (e.g. vaccinations are not medically contraindicated) choose not to, and are thus then dependent upon the herd immunity provided by the individuals who are vaccinated.

This is an irony that completely incenses me. That level of arrogance is simply staggering.
Arrogance?

That's a funny way to spell "stupidity"...
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  #74  
Old 11.04.2016, 17:10
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Re: Vaccine Question

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You can always choose to make up your own mind:

Aegis Austria

Impuls magazine download

You'll actually read articles written by doctors, not tree hugging, scarf wearing weirdos.
Oh come off it; Aegis is a notorious anti-vaccine organisation, dressed-up as a seemingly well-infomed vaccine information resource. It used to exist in Switzerland until a few years ago until its founder died from an as-yet undisclosed condition.
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  #75  
Old 11.04.2016, 17:12
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Re: Vaccine Question

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I do keep an eye on the scientific evidences of course, but apparently the anti-vaxx are based on scientific evidences too....
My Shaman, Dr. Baron Samedi is quite scientific too, you should see the way he shakes the chicken bones, casts out all the bad Juju in one sitting.
It´s true
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  #76  
Old 11.04.2016, 17:17
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Re: Vaccine Question

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Anti-vaxxers who are able to vaccinate their children (e.g. vaccinations are not medically contraindicated) choose not to, and are thus then dependent upon the herd immunity provided by the individuals who are vaccinated.

This is an irony that completely incenses me. That level of arrogance is simply staggering.
What I find ironic are the anti-vaxxers who claim that vaccines don't work but then say that if I'm vaccinated I should feel no danger from an unvaccinated person.
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  #77  
Old 11.04.2016, 17:22
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Re: Vaccine Question

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Or, put another way....

If you're gonna trust Dr. Google, at least be adamant about getting a second opinion immediately and from a REAL doctor.
And Dr. Google and emergencies do not mix - at all.

Unfortunately, for some, Dr. Google is the only trusted source of info - until it is too late.
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  #78  
Old 11.04.2016, 17:25
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Re: Vaccine Question

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What I find ironic are the anti-vaxxers who claim that vaccines don't work but then say that if I'm vaccinated I should feel no danger from an unvaccinated person.
They shift the goalposts constantly; you know you've got them into a corner when they mention "Big Pharma conspiracy" or "shill". They truly are hateful, dangerous people.
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  #79  
Old 11.04.2016, 17:28
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Re: Vaccine Question

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Old 11.04.2016, 17:35
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Re: Vaccine Question

Can't we end it or merge it or set it on fire and purge it?

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