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  #21  
Old 12.07.2016, 21:29
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Re: Giving birth in Switzerland, did you get pain medicine ?

[QUOTE=neddy;2622560]
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What did your doctor/obstetrician say??
/QUOTE] Once she heard I was going to the cantonal, she didn't want to know. Handed me an envelope with my notes & said goodbye.

"If the head midwife didn't take it over and called the head chief of the department, my husband would have been a widow and childless."
Nil, that's exactly how it was for me too.

I get quite irritated by this feel the flower opening, breathe through the pain BS. OK great if you pop them out like peas but let's not pretend it's a piece of cake for everyone however many party sessions you do with midwives & pretty theories. I did not at the time consider myself "unlucky" in that I would be dead if I had attempted to expel the beast in a country that didn't have an emergency team on hand. We both trod the fine line. And my beast is gorgeous after a very rough start with lots of physio & medical appointments.
I'd never, ever tell someone to 'breathe through the pain'; giving birth is bloody painful and anyone who tells you different has either not had children or is out and out lying! Give me drugs any day.
I was simply lucky with #2, I'd been on my feet all day showing family around Geneva Old Town and apparently gravity had already done a lot of the work.... #1 on the other hand was a nightmare, 'only' eight hours but I felt every minute of those hours as the epidural didn't work and neither r did the opiated based pethidine they eventually resorted to in an atemot to shut me up. That was in Oxford though, the OP was asking about Switzerland.

Nothing wrong with having a c-section if it's necessary either, and I'm surprised that you (and Nil) were left to suffer for so long without help and had such terrible experiences. Again, I've met several people here who've had them and not had anything like that happen to them.
Many gynecologists and obstetricians don't have privileges at the cantonal hospitals, if yours doesn't they will get copies of the hospital birthing notes, etc. and then usually just pick up your care after you go home.

Having said that, my gynecologist basically did the same to me when I needed a hysterectomy and my insurance wouldn't cover me for the private clinic where she was shadowing the house surgeon. I was relieved really, I had the distinct feeling that if she couldn't practice her surgery skills on me she wasn't at all interested. As it was the head of clinic at HUG operated and afterwards I found myself an older gyni who makes me feel like she actually cares!

Hopefully you found a more sympathetic doctor to replace the idiot who treated you with such contempt, and I'm glad 'the beast' is now thriving!!
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  #22  
Old 12.07.2016, 22:17
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Re: Giving birth in Switzerland, did you get pain medicine ?

My co-worker's wife recently gave birth to a daughter, their first child. They both wanted it to be as natural as possible (wanted to go to the Delphi birth-house, but ended up in Richterswil because of some small complications).
Apparently, she pulled it through without any medication (and with very little help from the doctor and the mid-wife).
She trained with an Epi-No and was physically fit.
They have no car and rode the bus to the hospital (while she was already in mild labor - they also didn't want induced labor). Strange looks from co-passengers included ;-)

From what he told us, his wife almost passed out several times from the effort, the pain and the various endorphins her body produced in the process.
Individual anatomy probably also plays a large part in just how horrible it gets.

There are studies that suggest that physically fit women have (statistically) less painful births and healthier kids.

I would certainly not try to persuade my wife to go for a full-out natural birth without having her full buy-in. And even then, I'd be quite certain she'd have a change of mind once the pain would start....
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  #23  
Old 12.07.2016, 23:42
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Re: Giving birth in Switzerland, did you get pain medicine ?

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She trained with an Epi-No and was physically fit.
She was also lucky. Although stamina will surely play a role in long births, 'ease' of birth depends mostly on size and position of the baby. There is no evidence that 'training' with the Epi-no has any benefits, either on ease of birth nor birth trauma.
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  #24  
Old 12.07.2016, 23:53
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Re: Giving birth in Switzerland, did you get pain medicine ?

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She was also lucky.

That, too, undoubtedly.

Still, takes some balls to do that. They're not stupid or reckless and my co-worker has a basic medical education (certified first-aider or what it's called).

I would guess they made sure that everything was OK beforehand.
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Old 13.07.2016, 00:09
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Re: Giving birth in Switzerland, did you get pain medicine ?

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Yes, a more natural approach to childbirth is encouraged, in that a vaginal delivery is considered the best for both mother and child; there are proven physical, hormonal and psychological advantages.
In fact, a planned CS at term is the safest way for a baby to come into the world. The small risk of respiratory problems is outweighed by lower risk of intrapartum oxygen deprivation and stillbirth. There is little evidence for the advantages you mention although women who had to have a CS could be more prone to psychological problems as they are made to feel like failures in our culture where giving birth naturally has become a personal achievement and C-sections are demonized without supporting evidence.
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  #26  
Old 13.07.2016, 00:34
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Re: Giving birth in Switzerland, did you get pain medicine ?

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In fact, a planned CS at term is the safest way for a baby to come into the world. The small risk of respiratory problems is outweighed by lower risk of intrapartum oxygen deprivation and stillbirth. There is little evidence for the advantages you mention although women who had to have a CS could be more prone to psychological problems as they are made to feel like failures in our culture where giving birth naturally has become a personal achievement and C-sections are demonized without supporting evidence.
What utter tosh.
It's a major operation with all the perils that involves for mother and child alike.
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  #27  
Old 13.07.2016, 01:04
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Re: Giving birth in Switzerland, did you get pain medicine ?

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What utter tosh.
It really is not.
'.... existing data suggests that elective cesarean delivery is associated with greater risk of neonatal respiratory morbidity and fetal laceration, and potentially decreased risk of brachial plexus injury, neonatal sepsis, intracranial hemorrhage, intrapartum asphyxia, and neonatal encephalopathy. Though neonatal deaths may be increased among infants delivered via elective cesarean, overall perinatal mortality may be reduced due to prevention of antepartum stillbirts...'

For the mother CS indeed is more dangerous. Therefore you might also claim it takes balls to accept the risks of a major operation for the sake of the safety of your baby
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  #28  
Old 13.07.2016, 01:09
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Re: Giving birth in Switzerland, did you get pain medicine ?

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In fact, a planned CS at term is the safest way for a baby to come into the world. The small risk of respiratory problems is outweighed by lower risk of intrapartum oxygen deprivation and stillbirth. There is little evidence for the advantages you mention although women who had to have a CS could be more prone to psychological problems as they are made to feel like failures in our culture where giving birth naturally has become a personal achievement and C-sections are demonized without supporting evidence.


Bullcrap.


A C section is major abdominal surgery and has a lot of associated risks: not least the fact that recovery time can be longer than a vaginal birth. And in the UK at least you can't drive for around 6 weeks after.


Giving birth is an achievement - however the hell you do it.


For the record, I was adamant I didn't want an epidural but I had to for reasons I shan't bore you with, although by the time I was all ready to "go" it had worn off and they couldn't top up. Everything else had worn off too - cocodamol; pethadine, the gas and air, the bacon sandwiches...


Not the most fun I've ever had, but Little Rufus is pretty fabulous.
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  #29  
Old 13.07.2016, 01:15
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Re: Giving birth in Switzerland, did you get pain medicine ?

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Bullcrap.


A C section is major abdominal surgery and has a lot of associated risks: not least the fact that recovery time can be longer than a vaginal birth. And in the UK at least you can't drive for around 6 weeks after.

I said 'for the baby'
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Old 13.07.2016, 01:27
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Re: Giving birth in Switzerland, did you get pain medicine ?

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I said 'for the baby'




Still don't agree. Show me the studies. Actually, I'll bet 75 rappen and a stick of gum that there are equally weighted arguments for both sides.


If C-Sections were actually the best option, then surely us ladies should have been fitted with zips shortly after the Big Bang.*












*Pun intended.

Last edited by RufusB; 13.07.2016 at 02:03.
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  #31  
Old 13.07.2016, 01:47
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Re: Giving birth in Switzerland, did you get pain medicine ?

You can click on the link I posted 3 posts above It is a meta-analysis of several studies. I know, I was also surprised to read this as it is not widely disseminated, in particular not during midwife-led prenatal courses Some gyneacologists do openly discuss this though e.g. here: http://www.villarsgyn.ch/sectiowunsch.htm [sorry, in German]. Another logical reason why planned CS could be safer is that it prevents an emergency CS, that is definitely less safe because, well, it is an emergency and unplanned
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Old 13.07.2016, 10:22
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Re: Giving birth in Switzerland, did you get pain medicine ?

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However a handful of midwives did try to discourage her and recommended her crazy stuff, including herbal tea, at which point I though my wife was going to smash the midwife right through the window.
This was our experience, too. My wife was offered a nice cup of herbal tea, at which point she glared at the midwife and said "give me my f'ing epidural." At which point, the anesthesiologist arrived and administered the epidural without delay.

Last edited by Village Idiot; 13.07.2016 at 11:26.
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  #33  
Old 13.07.2016, 11:00
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Re: Giving birth in Switzerland, did you get pain medicine ?

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It is a meta-analysis
Sorry, it is actually a review.
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  #34  
Old 13.07.2016, 12:40
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Re: Giving birth in Switzerland, did you get pain medicine ?

Ok couple Points. Alot of birthing outcomes (pain medication, vaginal birth, vs. c-section) is a function of the birthplan, parent's desires, and the Support of a mid-wife who is there to serve as your advocate.


The article sums of the birth experience well but I would not say the hospitals promote "natural birth" but rather "safe" birth. Remember Pain medication maybe good for the mother but if systemically given and if an Opioid like medication, then you're asking for Baby who will be cognitively "dim" at birth and will Need extra-Monitoring for respriatory Depression, i.e. linking to poor 02 statuation ext.(the latter is a risk).


The other issue is that from a c-section perspective, there is probably a push to wards this more so that probably requested in the interest of safety and probably $$ paid by insurance (same as US in that for-profite regard, more Money from what is really a huge abdominal surgery contary to what any non informed idiot may think). When we were looking for birthing hospitals we definately asked the c-section rate as it gave insight into who fast the move to that. We found that c-section rates can be in the range of 30 to 40% - at Baden Hospital it was 30%. At a private clinic in Zurich it was 40% (but the latter due to foreign Folks wishing to schudule a birth in CH).


The reality is that when you start introducting medication, you start a cycle that has a higher risk to Baby and to a c-section, so called vicious cycle. If you are an empowered women who wants to experience the Beauty (an pain, which can be be managed) of a vaginal birth then you will be wary of this and will have a birth plan that will help you acheive this Goal. A decision to take a c-section is also empowering provided its your decision and not medical staff pushing you there right way (this is why a birth plan is key).


There are other hospitals that are best suited to These types of desires, such as Paracelsus in Richterswil - where the midwives ,pending your desirses are there to help you minimize a medicated birth. On the on the other Hand, if you have a Birth Plan, and you have a midwife and husband who are clear on your desire and you want early pain medication (i.e. epidural), certainly that's not going to be denied.


So, really at the end of the day, in CH you can decide the course you want to plan, just have a Birth Plan and discuss that proactively with the medical staff - don't be a stupid and expect the medical Team to know what your desires are ahead of time. And really, I'll be strong here, you are stupid stupid stupid if you and husband don have a birth plan well ahead of the birth and have a midwife that is informed and has agreed to serve as your advocate for this. You can map the exact senario so every one is clear on when you want medical Intervention that will serve as your discussion Points (well for your midwife and husband) when you are in birth.


so I would not walk away thinking in CH you will be denied, they want a safe birth and there is room for discussion.


We spent alot of time looking for right Hospital and found the right midwife for us. There is also a doula Option you can also bring into the discussion and whereas you may not get the desired out come you're looking for, at least with a birth plan and a midwife advocate, a well-informed and supportive husband/Partner/friend you can enhance the risk to get acheive the experience you want.


Cheers.
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  #35  
Old 14.07.2016, 11:35
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Re: Giving birth in Switzerland, did you get pain medicine ?

Thank you to everyone for the replies and personal stories. I've got a better understanding of the process(es).

Hope the thread is of interest to other people in the future.

Kind regards,
TheLaughingCow
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