I am really keen to hear from other mothers if possible...

My child has gone to kindergartern for the last year and half, she has done amazingly well at learning the language and for a while seemed to be making friends.

However she never seems to be invited over to anyones house, and when I have encouraged her to ask a friend over she comes back saying they said no. When I have manged to invite a kid over, there has never been an invite back. Now at least 4 children who she has been friendly with who are in the same year as her, have had birthdays, and she has not been invited to one party. It makes me so mad.

I have talked to the teacher and she says during class time she gets on well with the other kids.

I am wondering if its becuase at the end of the day, she is a foriegner?

So my poor child is desparetly unhappy and I have no idea where else to find her some friends from!

Also I would love to meet other mothers, but due to situation above and my poor language skills I am not meeting them through the school. Plus even when I try to make conversation I get no where.

Where can I meet other mother with kindergarten age kids? If you send your kid to the international school there is a whole world for you as a parent, but that is not an option for me.

Is there any clubs, societies, coffee mornings for english speaking mums with shcool age children thats not nessecairly connected to the international schools?

Maybe others can advise you better, but I think the only way you are going to find out is to give the language a go yourself, and then start talking to the other parents. Its not easy, especially if you still spend more time dealing in English than the other, but the more you practice in real life the easier it gets.

If you are in a rural area I would be inclined to say "foreigner" is a factor, but if you are in a bigger city then I would have more doubts.

A child has a better chance at integrating if mum and dad do too.

Hi Hayley,

I was quite sad to read your message, because I don't really know if I can offer any (useful) advice. But I have sent a message to Carmen who knows probably every expat mother in Switzerland to come by and take a look at your message. Integration is (according to almost everyone) what you are supposed to do, but I think we both know that while it may help, you'll still be different. My girlfriend is Swiss, has lived here all her life, speaks perfect Swiss German but was still given a hard time at Uni (in Zurich) and called "ausländer". Her father is English. So sometimes no matter how hard you try it might not be enough.

Have you made learning German a priority? I know it's hard because you learn high German in class, and then effectively can't use it on the street, but a lot of hard work can and will pay off in the end.

I'm always hearing the Swiss complaining about all the foreigners in their schools - are there any others in your daughter's class? They/their parents may be more open to your daughter/you and may be going through the same problems themselves?

As for not getting invited to her friend's birthday parties - that would make me pretty mad as well - that's just plain rude.

Hang in there...

i am sorry to hear of your situation as well.

i can also understand the frustration about the differences between "normal" and international schools.

As mark said, just hang in there.

Perhaps a little more perseverance than normal is required, but try to stay very friendly with everyone and dont give up.

good luck

Thanks everyone for responding.
The language is no go at the moment, I have learnt the basic and can hold my own when it comes to shopping but not enough conversation skills to develop friendships in german. I have no free time to take more lessons as yet. I know it would help in the long term though.
I also have tried the expat moms yahoo groups, but find the yahoo process a little irritating, just was wondering if anyone knew of regular meetings between expats mums that are open to any newcomers.

Hi Hayley,

maybe I can help!

I have two kids the elder of which has several Swiss friends. Although we live in Frick we have circa monthly get togethers with a group of a few from our time in ZH. This is especially frequent in the summer when it is usually combined with a barbeque.

So how to do it?

Either you or your husband (or both) has a job. Are all the people you work with single/childless? If not suggest an out of work event. Here you will get to know the spouse of the colleague. If they say no first time try again a couple of times. If they still say no then its a non-starter.

Have you any interests where you might be able to join a club? I have found that if you have for example any sporting talent they bend over backwards to integrate you! As a mother taking children along to such activities is not seen in a bad light...

And finally where in ZH do you live. I do know families around ZH and if you live nearby I can put you in contact...

Richard

Hey Richard,
Thanks, will figure out how to send a private message and reply in more depth.

Hi Hayley-

I am so sorry to hear about your difficult time. My kids are also in Swiss schools and I noticed as well that they weren't invited over. My older son's best friend was a kid from Kosovo and my younger son's two best friends are from Palestine and Pakistan. Having said this, I lived for 4 years in an apartment in Thalwil and almost one year ago we moved to Langnau am Albis and live on a very small street with about 20 kids - almost all Swiss German - and on our street our kids are fully accepted. They still though face issues of being a "foreigner" in other areas, even though their local dialect is almost perfect.

I know that you wrote the Yahoo process is tedious but I highly recommend that you join some of the groups there that I moderate as you will find some kindred spirits as well as opportunities to get together with other moms and kids in similar situations.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Families-in-Zurich

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Expat-Moms-In-Switzerland

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Swiss-Schooling

I feel for you and your daughter:-(

Hi,
Thanks Carmen, its good to hear from other mothers, its encouraging. Actualy today I finaly joined one of the expats in switzerland groups and it was no problem,
I tried it a year ago and got lost in the administration of Yahoo I think, which is why i found it hard, not the actual group itself.
So maybe I will try some of the other groups too.
I would definately like to get to know more mums. Me & My daughters afternoon socal life sucks right now :-(
thanks for replying

hi there

i am sorry to hear about your kids problem with friends..
sadly i know what you are talking about .. we have been living in switzerland over 2 years now and my son speaks perfect french and gets good grades in school
still.. he has no friends, never gets invited back to other kids homes
he is 7 years old now and in the end had to see the schoolpsycologist because he was so unhappy and to make things worse one of his teacher started to behave badly towards him too!
she made him stand in the cold for 45 minutes, let him get dressed for gym near the exit when the other kids could go in the dressingroom, told him in front of the class he was not sweet but the other kids were, she pushed him, yelled at him, gave him crosses (10 crosses is punishmentwork) for sucking his thumb, cauhing, and so on...
of course we have raised hell in that school after finding out but nothing changed
that is also why we decided to move to martigny ... since it is a bigger town we are hoping the school will be better
so all i can say is.. hang in there and always stand behind your kid
good luck
marielle

http://www.wac.ch/about/whatIs.htm

This might be of interest if you are anywhere near Uster?

Our girls have been through the swiss school system, the oldest is now at Uni in Zurich so by all means send me a pm if you want to chat.

Jinz

Wow, you have said exactly what i have been thinking will happen to my children. We have only been here almost 4 months now and I really think that we have made a big mistake. I have thought about putting my oldest into the local school but he is in the local kingergarden at the moment and has still not made any friends\has not picked up one bit of the language\is called a loner by one of the moms. Now if i put him into the public school in September what can i expect. Can i expect any better. Or is it going to get worse. As it is we are struggling with his behaviour which has deteriorated since arriving here and I am seriously thinking of a child phycologist and I probably would be at one already if i could find one who speaks English. He walks around with pictures of all his old friends back home and talks about them constantly.

So my hubbie and i have thought that we will just have to cough up the extra expense, that we dont have, to send him to an international\bi-lingual school. The problem i have with that now is that we will be living in a vacuum with just the kids at the school as his friends and still be regarded as the outsider by every other kid on the block. I have also been told by one of my friends who has been here years and speaks the language PERFECTLY that she has tried making friends with the residents, and tried really hard with alot of the woman to befriend them, but that she has not been able to make any friends with them as the cultural barrier etc is just too great. Now that is an adult talking.

So i think the best way to survive here is to stay in the vacuum of the expat groups, which i think is just not fair on anybody. I just think at the end of the day that my family is better off getting out now perhaps instead of letting my children be marginalized for the rest of there life. I dont know, am i not looking BIG enough here. Please if anyone has any other suggestions, i am happy to hear them.

By the way here is a link to another expat group if you are interested.

http://www.withothers.com/aboutus.html

I was never really popular at school until I got to a level where being multicultural made you interesting as opposed to being a freak. All those years I spent reading on my own paid off big time as, suddenly, the knowledge was useful. I kind of got used to the teasing and being a loner, because the harder you try to fit in, the harder you get pushed out.

Parents getting involved can seriously backfire after a certain age too. The only thing I can think of that would help would maybe be getting involved in a sport of some kind? Or orchestra? Or anything else where your kid can shine with his ability rather than being reduced to a cultural background. It would help with confidence and maybe having a regular common interest would help find a few friends who hopefully don't run with the school/kindergarten peer group.

Hi Hayley,
I don't have any children yet but I do belong to the Womans Activity Center in Uster and they have alot of great activities as well as a school for english speaking children and activities for adults too (including german lessons)! From what I've seen it is a great support center for the moms and a fantastic way for the kids to make friends and keep busy. You should check out the website- www.wac.ch. Good luck!

Shannon

Hey wannabe+, 4 months is not that long really especially when you take the whole upheaval into account.
Our children (12 + 10) were put into the local school not speaking the language and found it very tough for the first year (we're in our second year now), however we got so lucky with the community here , from day one we had children passing by to pick up our boys for school and after school we had a constant parade of kids coming in and out. They have a great pool of friends now and are never in ! However that being said we've never met any of the parents , even when we"ve had boys over for sleepovers! In fact we have a couple of regulars who sleepover from time to time and I still haven;t met the parents. So although they have a great social life it hasn't enhanced ours.
Have you talked to the teacher, get names of the kids who live locally and invite one or two of them arround . Is there any way to get extra language lessons?

I see at least one thread on the Swiss being "racist". From this story there does seem to be something very wrong but the applicable word is "chauvinist". For sure, the Swiss are very chauvinistic but that is way different to being racist. I feel disgusted reading this in that their chauvinism filters down to the children in school such that young children from outside who are doing their very best to be friends and to fit in with others get rejected by Swiss children due to attitudes they have picked up from their parents. And for this extreme chauvinism to be picked up by a teacher to bully a child of an outsider is way beneath reprehensible. That teacher would be able to walk under the belly of a snake without tickling its belly with his toupé.

Wow, that last sentence is profound. You sound like a really strong person and one of those who have triumphed over adversity. The thing is i just dont know if i could see my children in that kind of pain and also dont think i can just sit back and hope that they come out of it triumphant as it could go either way.

Yes you are right that 4 months is not a long time and i have taken that into account which is why it is taking so long to decide whether to pack it all in and head back home or not. The thing is i hear people on here and around me that have been here a year, two years or more and they are saying things i dont really want to hear, like the poster of this original thread who has been hear a year and a half. I see the impact that it is already having on my family and wonder that if i just sit back and wait in the hope that it will get better for another 6 months to a year, if i wont just be allowing the family to suffer more. Yes, we may just settle but I am thinking that maybe we will be settling for second best for the family and settling just because we dont want to upheave the family again to take us back home.

I dont know i am really confused about it all. It is not just the schooling issue that bugs me, there is soooo much more.

To answer some of your questions, yes i have had two little kiddies around already and it is not fun to watch as my son gets really upset when the children cannot understand him and he has not bonded with anyone whereas he had more friends then he could count back home. I have tried taking him for French lessons but think that at 4 he is a bit young to be doing French lessons in a structured environment.

I guess it sounds worse than it was. Yeah, I'm still not happy around young teens as they remind me of being bullied in school but it came out alright in the wash, really. As I said, following a common interest is often a better grounds for friendship than just going to school together. Me, I was a geeky, awkward kid so I only really made friends with other kids like me or those who were the generally nice and secure kids. Because those who worry about things like being an friend of an ausländer usually have a few issues of their own.

Oh blimey, reading all this lot is so offputting. my husband is in the interview process for a job in ticino. we have 2 children and all the posts here are really giving me BIG second thoughts about relocating there... i wonder if he could commute..........