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  #41  
Old 25.08.2016, 14:58
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Re: Routine physical examination

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Read my lips: "Do go to the doctor if you are feeling unwell."

Do not waste your money on medical check ups - unless you do them every week!

Of course it is a personal choice. If the regular check up had any value the Swiss government would make it compulsory, just as the medical test for over 70 year old drivers is compulsory, every 2 years.
It is a personal choice, but believing that if it had value, it would be required is not necessarily a good path to follow.
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  #42  
Old 25.08.2016, 15:23
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Re: Routine physical examination

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Read my lips: "Do go to the doctor if you are feeling unwell."

Do not waste your money on medical check ups - unless you do them every week!

Of course it is a personal choice. If the regular check up had any value the Swiss government would make it compulsory, just as the medical test for over 70 year old drivers is compulsory, every 2 years.
Sbrinz, you're making yourself out to be an ignorant fool. You don't need to read my lips, just my words, or those of any informed medical professional. If you wait until you have symptoms of advanced disease — i.e. you feel unwell — it's simply too late. You may die. If you test pre-emptively, you may catch problems before they occur. You won't die.

I don't actually care whether you choose to have check-ups or not. I will, and many other intelligent people will too. It's our choice.
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  #43  
Old 25.08.2016, 15:24
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Re: Routine physical examination

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Question: why hasn't the Swiss government placed routine medical check ups on the list of requirements for health care insurers?
Because presumably they are not (cost-)effective on a population health level. Unnecessary follow-ups due to false positives cause unnecessary worry and are expensive to the system. That does not mean that regular checkups do not save lives in individual cases.
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Old 25.08.2016, 15:26
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Re: Routine physical examination

I can't even ignore you!

Quote: Sorry, 22 yards is a moderator/admin and you are not allowed to ignore him or her.
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Old 25.08.2016, 15:42
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Re: Routine physical examination

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I can't even ignore you!

Quote: Sorry, 22 yards is a moderator/admin and you are not allowed to ignore him or her.
So you just want to ignore people who disagree with you? Is that how you've managed to accrue the knowledge and wisdom you're displaying here?

As it happens I'm not a huge fan of general pre-emptive medical checks either; they cost more than they save in the long term, but it's clear that on an individual basis you're more likely to become aware of some possible oncoming serious illnesses if you have them tested for.

Last edited by Ace1; 25.08.2016 at 16:42.
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  #46  
Old 25.08.2016, 15:43
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Re: Routine physical examination

Too much hatred, you all need to visit a doctor
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  #47  
Old 25.08.2016, 16:33
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Re: Routine physical examination

I do wonder though- whether someone can expect insurance company to pay for full yearly examination, including all blood tests, ECGs, etc- on request- if there are no indication whatsoever that this is medically necessary- eg you are feeling unwell and the doc can't find out why.

Can you just walk in to your doctor's and ask- repeatedly, every year, for no reason whatsoever apart from wanting reassurance.

In which case, at what age do you start- 1, 2, 16, 20, 30 ...? Honest question.
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  #48  
Old 25.08.2016, 16:37
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Re: Routine physical examination

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Sbrinz, you're making yourself out to be an ignorant fool. You don't need to read my lips, just my words, or those of any informed medical professional. If you wait until you have symptoms of advanced disease — i.e. you feel unwell — it's simply too late. You may die. If you test pre-emptively, you may catch problems before they occur. You won't die.

I don't actually care whether you choose to have check-ups or not. I will, and many other intelligent people will too. It's our choice.
I have indeed discussed this many times with many health professionals, in many countries - and they do not agree that regular testing for no reason is a good idea. At what age do you believe such testing should start btw? And what tests would you include? Blood pressure and basic blood tests for diabetes/cholesterol make sense for over 50s. Glaucoma test too.

Could you make a list of tests + age at which required please.
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  #49  
Old 25.08.2016, 17:13
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Re: Routine physical examination

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I have indeed discussed this many times with many health professionals, in many countries - and they do not agree that regular testing for no reason is a good idea. At what age do you believe such testing should start btw? And what tests would you include? Blood pressure and basic blood tests for diabetes/cholesterol make sense for over 50s. Glaucoma test too.

Could you make a list of tests + age at which required please.

It might be that one needs a basic set of tests in their 20s or 30s. Those results, plus family history and risk profile should then inform a testing schedule. Because of family history, I started to get mammograms every 12-18 months at 35. Still found my own lump.

As DNA sequencing becomes less expensive, more available and better understood, risk profiles might be determined more accurately and lead to more effective monitoring. At least, that's what the precision medicine folk are hoping for. In some cases, I think it's definitely warranted. But we're still a long way away from regular DNA sequencing.
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Old 25.08.2016, 17:13
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Re: Routine physical examination

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I can't even ignore you!

Quote: Sorry, 22 yards is a moderator/admin and you are not allowed to ignore him or her.
You think you've got problems - mods can't ignore anyone!

Article here concerning regular medical checkups.
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For healthy adults between the ages of 18 and 65, The American Academy of Family Physicians (AAFP) recommends only these components of the traditional physical exam:

For men, a blood pressure measurement.
For women, a blood pressure measurement and a periodic Pap smear.
TL;DR if you're not in an at risk group, and have no symptoms of ill-health, it can be actively harmful to have regular checkups.

E.g. a mammogram is an X-ray. X-rays increase the chance of getting cancer. Therefore, a risk-benefit analysis must be carried out, before exposing healthy women to x-rays that may harm them.
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  #51  
Old 25.08.2016, 17:14
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Re: Routine physical examination

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Would you prefer to wait until you can't urinate properly to visit your doctor and get a diagnosis of metastisised prostate cancer and a prognosis of six months to live, or have a general check-up including a PSA test to identify potential early cancerous activity, leading to treatment and/or life-giving surgery before any symptoms manifest themselves?

I can list hundreds of other examples where prevention trumps cure. I can also list hundreds of instances of you providing unsupported and incorrect "advice" on a plethora of unrelated topics. I'm simply asking you to post factually in threads on subjects as important as this (personal health must be one of the most important issues in most people's lives). Groan away if it gives you some sort of puerile satisfaction, but frankly, you just don't know what you're talking about on this subject.
I agree completely.

My husband originally visited his doctor for something, I can't even remember what, and while he was there they checked his blood pressure, which was high, so he was put on medication. This could prevent something like a stroke in the future.
Also, because of his age he was given a PSA test, which was done at each visit, about once a year.
Eventually, two years ago, his PSA levels were raised so he was referred to a urologist.
Long story short, he had a radical prostatectomy earlier this year, thankfully the tumour appeared to be contained in the gland. This week he had a six month post-op blood test to check that there was no sign that cancer has metastasized.
We are now waiting with fingers crossed, but the doctor is pretty positive all will be ok.
If my husband hadn't had the PSA test, we probably would still have no idea anything was wrong, and the outcome could have been a lot different.
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  #52  
Old 25.08.2016, 17:14
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Re: Routine physical examination

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I have indeed discussed this many times with many health professionals, in many countries - and they do not agree that regular testing for no reason is a good idea. At what age do you believe such testing should start btw? And what tests would you include? Blood pressure and basic blood tests for diabetes/cholesterol make sense for over 50s. Glaucoma test too.

Could you make a list of tests + age at which required please.


Hubby started this at 50. He also has a medical problem that could lead to major issues which is why he does a check up yearly (diabetes, cholesterol, blood pressure, bloodworks, ECG and now also prostata).


I just do a blood check up yearly but then I have to do that anyway due to a medical condition.


In Germany they also recommend a stool test every 5 years (I think)
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  #53  
Old 25.08.2016, 17:21
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Re: Routine physical examination

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I do wonder though- whether someone can expect insurance company to pay for full yearly examination, including all blood tests, ECGs, etc- on request- if there are no indication whatsoever that this is medically necessary- eg you are feeling unwell and the doc can't find out why.

Can you just walk in to your doctor's and ask- repeatedly, every year, for no reason whatsoever apart from wanting reassurance.

In which case, at what age do you start- 1, 2, 16, 20, 30 ...? Honest question.
Look here (KLV, in German, French and Italian) for what basic health insurance covers.
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  #54  
Old 25.08.2016, 17:55
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Re: Routine physical examination

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I have indeed discussed this many times with many health professionals, in many countries - and they do not agree that regular testing for no reason is a good idea. At what age do you believe such testing should start btw? And what tests would you include? Blood pressure and basic blood tests for diabetes/cholesterol make sense for over 50s. Glaucoma test too.

Could you make a list of tests + age at which required please.
Yes, Odile, we all know that you're intimately connected with the leading police, judicial, political and medical practitioners in multiple countries. Are you seriously trying to tell me that none of the doctors you converse with regularly recommend screening or prophylaxis? Perhaps you should find some who are more interested in maintaining or improving population health than in making money from treating disease.

Odile, you can google for answers to your question. However, most people who are as extraordinarily well-connected to the medical fraternity as you are would have easy access to the answers, or indeed would already know at what age one should be tested and for what.

Presumably, along with Sbrinz, you never go to the dentist for an annual check-up, right? You just wait for some tooth pain, then go to have the tooth extracted because you've left it too late to get a filling, right?

Those of you railing pointlessly and inexplicably against medical check-ups are simply terrified of what those checks may reveal, and having to face your own mortality. But again, I don't care whether you age healthily or not. It won't stop me looking after myself.

I note that none of you have any riposte to my points about detecting and treating or even averting life-threatening cancer and other diseases. The best those who are hard of thinking can manage is to reach for the groan button; there is absolutely nothing they can write that would make any sense. Juvenile and pathetic.
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  #55  
Old 25.08.2016, 18:01
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Re: Routine physical examination

Maybe the OP wants to become a doctor and wants to know where he can sit a medical school exam.

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What the heck kind of question is that? Where else would you go for a MEDICAL examination?
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  #56  
Old 25.08.2016, 18:32
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Re: Routine physical examination

Personally I think there is a case to be made for a routine physical examination every once in a while. There are plenty of things that can be detected and treated before they reach a level where they make you feel unwell.

I think a general check up in your early twenties to get a baseline level is a good idea and unless there is anything to be concerned about maybe every five to ten years thereafter increasing the frequency with age. I don't think annual check up are necessary in young adults if nothing shows up on the initial exam.

My husband was a perfectly healthy ( he thought) twenty something when he was required to go for a routine medical before starting a new job. They discovered his blood pressure to be extraordinarily high for someone of his age and recommended he went for further tests.
They found no cause for it, he wasn't overweight, did regular exercise, didn't smoke, didn't drink a lot and ate healthily, so they diagnosed essential hypertension and prescribed anti hypertensive drugs. They also recommended that his family went for a check up as it can run in families. His sister who was 19 and the time and his father were both found to have abnormally high blood pressure and were both prescribed treatment. His mother and two other brothers were fine.
As part of the check ups they also measured cholesterol and he was found to have extremely high levels of LDL. His sister, father and one of his brothers did too. They were diagnosed with familial hypercholesterolaemia and have been receiving treatment for it ever since.

Without the check up these problems would probably not have been identified for many years and could have caused serious health issues later in life for both my hubby and his siblings. As it was his father suffered a massive stroke soon after being diagnosed which may or may not have been caused by those problems ( he was a heavy smoker too), he lived for quite a few years afterwards until his death from lung cancer.
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Old 25.08.2016, 18:46
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Re: Routine physical examination

22 yards - perhaps you could answer the questions raised re what tests, how often and at what age?

Of course blood pressure testing is essential. And it also depends on age and family history, etc. Common sense.

Which is why I asked, which test and when and how often- even if really fit and well and with a good family history. Family history is possibly more important than most.

Well I am married to a doctor who qualified in 1969 in the UK and worked with a medical school all his life- and with a large number of GPs and countries. And yes, we happen to have medics in the family all over the world and many many medical friends too. Can't help it sorry. The massive drain on financial resources, and more importantly, physician/doctor time- to concentrate on the worried well rather than the sick- is very topical at the moment. A bit of research on your part wouldn't go amiss. Common sense, family history, behavioural history and basic testing like BP, are of course all essential. There have been so many articles in the medical press, including the BMJ to which I happen to have access about over diagnosis, and some testing causing more harm than good, and over-treatment.

Here is just one of them

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/20...l-atul-gawande

But young/ish healthy people do not need regular full blood testing, MRI or cat scans, etc.

Thanks for link gj - will look at it now.

Last edited by Odile; 25.08.2016 at 19:02.
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Old 25.08.2016, 19:28
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Re: Routine physical examination

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Thanks for link gj - will look at it now.
It starts at Art. 12 - here
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Old 25.08.2016, 19:59
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Re: Routine physical examination

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There have been so many articles in the medical press, including the BMJ to which I happen to have access about over diagnosis, and some testing causing more harm than good, and over-treatment.
<cough>

I was married to a Doctor, and had a social circle almost entirely composed of MDs for long enough to make a few observations:

They may not be the best source of information about economics, particularly not with respect to financial aspects of the medical system.

Many have a clear understanding of, and unshakeable knowledge about, public healthcare. So much so that they can only discuss such matters with similarly qualified and like minded MDs.

They aren't all idiots, but a white coat is also no magical protection from the general level of human folly.

The partners of MDs are often MDs themselves, those who are not sometimes develop symptoms of this condition through long term exposure.

And finally...

If overdiagnosis and over-treatment are such an issue, how is it that the medical profession is not responsible for that?
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Old 25.08.2016, 20:10
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Re: Routine physical examination

Lest we forget: the OP is asking where to get a routine annual physical. As I understand it that means vital signs, some basic bloodwork... but would stop somewhere (well) short of an MRI or a CAT scan. So I am not really sure why we're talking about costs incurred for the latter.
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