Hello all:

I am looking for some advice/insight into what has become a dilemma for my family. We are contemplating a move to the Buchs SG area in February. We have 3 boys ages 8, 11, and 12. All of native english speakers with very little german language ability at this point. (we have been doing tutoring once weekly for the past month or so in anticipation of the move) We had been relying on advice we got about 1.5 years in an international school being sufficient time to allow for a transition to the swiss education system. We are looking at this move as a long-term move and not just a 2 or 3 year thing.

It is our understanding that the swiss school system "tracks" students in the 6th grade into either a vocational/real program or a university/gymnasium path.

Knowing that our kids would be unlikely to pass the test(s) initially we are not sure how to proceed. Any advice or insight into your experience with kids this age would be appreciated. I am also looking for insight into how the swiss schools deal with kids who are past the 6th grade when they move there or attempt to transition into the swiss schools. What are their options for getting on the gymansium track.

All of our kids are bright and in the gifted and talented programs at their schools in the US. We would not want them to be limited to vocational education simply because their language knowledge was not sufficient quickly enough.

thanks in advance.

Good morning and Welcome to the Forum.
I appreciate your concern about your boys, but it is very difficult for anyone to say exactly what will happen in your case.
I think one problem with attending International Schools initially and then changing over, is that the syllabus at an International School may be in part different from the Swiss one. When our children changed countries, it was sometimes the content of the lessons themselves (knowledge of local Geography - or lack of it, History from the point of view of the country they were living in etc.) which caused 'problems'. As you are intending to stay, remember that the children will learn German more rapidly in an environment where German is the everyday language.
If you do a bit of searching (understatement of the year!), you will find quite a few Threads in Family Matters/Health on the subject of children coming to Switzerland without speaking much German.
From those Threads and the other answers you will undoubtedly receive here, you should be able to find a couple of pointers.
Good luck with the move.

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Longbyt

Don't worry, 3 to 6 months here of total immersion in the Swiss public schools and your boys will be nearly fluent in German. Young people pick up languages incredibly fast. I had a 17 year old apprentice working with me who had been here less than 2 years at that point and I thought he was born here as his command of the local dialect was incredible.

I put my son of 14 with no German into state school. As I have said before in other threads it is probably the singularly best decision we made. He had no German what so ever before coming here and now he feels comfortable enough to go to Youth Clubs and other things on offer for teenages with the other local kids.

Integration is especially important for them if they want to settle here and feel part of the flow, which as we know is important for older kids.

Good luck with your decision,
Gal x

I agree with the previous posters that total immersion is the best. I work at a school and I find it takes some kids up to a year to really settle in and make good friends, so I would not consider putting them in a school for a year and a half and then changing it. I also think that the motivation to learn German in order to make friends is important, otherwise the kids retreat to their groups of English speaking friends, because it's the easiest thing to do. Encourage your kids to be brave and not afraid to speak and they will learn very quick.

Good luck!!

I came to Switzerland when I was 15, and went straight to public school. They have a transitional program for non-native speakers, which I had to do for 1 year to learn French, but considering the age of your kids, they probably won't even need 6 months. Put them in public school.

As for the gifted and talented programs, once they speak the language well enough, I'm sure you can see if they're ready with the appropriate people. I mean, I was able to get into "collège", basically their version of a high school that leads to university, after only being here for a year. If it wasn't too late for me, I doubt it'll be too late for them.

Maybe international schools are different where you're planning to go, but I knew people in Geneva who still speak French like crap even after living here for 10 years, all because they go to international school and never bothered to integrate. Plus there's the obvious cost.

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"Sometimes life leaves a hundred dollar bill on your dresser, and you don't realize until later that it's because it f**ked you."

hi there
we have also gone throght the similiar situation as you are in now. we arrived here 9 years ago. for the first 3 years my daugher (now14) was going to the international school but for ceratin reasons we changed her to the swiss school. she also had german once a week there but not so much. seeing her local school we never sent our (now11) younger daughter to the international school at all. she went to the swiss playgroup, kindergarten and now is in 5th grade. we did a bit of english with her and now she is at the level of reading harry potter. so its good for us. as someone else has pointed out also it was also one of the best decisions we could have made. now my elder one is in the 3rd gymmi and we are satisfied for both the girls. the local school we felt is more disciplined and the level of the education is a bit on the higher side. now what i feel is the more languages your child nows the better and english is the language everyone knows(nearly).
i hope i could help.
all the best
pink pompom

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pink pompom

I think you have answered your own question.

Put them in the local school, they will learn the language, have local friends and integrate into the community.

Put them into an Internations school will keep them as an outsider. Plus cost you a small fortune.

We have just decided to out our son into Kindergarten, even though

1/ This means paying the full-time nursery/kindercrippe costs for 2 more years as Kindergarten is not full time

2/ We would have a free place in the international system.

I agree with the other posters who say go straight into the Swiss system.

It is not the purpose or aim of the International Schools to provide any sort of transition to the Swiss system. They are largely self contained and putting your kids there won't facilitate a transition but merely postpone it. They are ideal for exapts who are here for maybe 1 to 3 years and hence don't see the need to adapt to the local system. From what I've heard the quality of teaching the local language is pretty poor in International Schools. Kids are encouraged to associated with one another and not with locals and many are quite helpless when they have to fend for themselves outside of this environment. Besides which, many of these schools are very expensive. Swiss schools are free.

Whereas many parents in the UK put their kids into private schooling because they believe that this is where they will get the best education and get the best learning environment, the same cannot be said of Switzerland. Most private schools (I'm not talking about the International Schools here) pick up the kids that for some reason are failing in the state system. Such schools and their pupils thus have the stigma of rich parents trying to help failing kids by throwing money at them. Before volunatrily considering sending your kids to such a school, you should ask yourself if this is the message you want to put out and the stigma you want to place on your kids.

I honestly don't think you could do 1.5 years in an international school and then move them, not at their age. Imagine them trying to make friends, all the time thinking 'why bother, I won't be here next Sept'. And you'd have the 'move to local German-speaking school' hanging over their heads all the time, getting bigger and scarier as it got closer.

The German they would pick up in a year at international school would be the same as they will pick up with a few weeks at the state school. Honestly, many of us here do understand your concerns (I put my 8 yr old into a local school in April) but it's astounding how they manage. And what's the worst that can happen? They'll not cope for some reason or another, or not make the cut for the grammar stream, and you can move them into an international school then.

Why not think of it in reverse to your original assumption - 'let's try the state school for 1.5 years, then move to international if necessary' (but obviously don't tell the kids that - my son doesn't even realise there IS an option involving being schooled in English, because I know he's a lazy little tyke!).

The schools here are totally geared up to non-local-language speaking kids, and there will be a support programme for them for as long as they need it. And the split between the grammar and other streams isn't a one-off deal, at least in my canton (Vaud). Here, they stream the kids into one of three tracks at 7th grade, then there's an option to move up a track at 8th grade if 7th went well; then after 9th grade kids can do an additional 1-year course to boost them up and give them a leaving qualification the same as the track above. See? Tons of options! (You can tell I've looked into this as I too was that fretting, 'it's so unfair if he gets downgraded for language' parent).

Hope this helps with your decision. If in doubt, make the one that's easiest to undo, which in my opinion is Swiss-to-International, not the other way round!

kodokan

PS: My son isn't one of those 'fluent in 3 months' kids; he doesn't work very hard at it and isn't gifted with a natural ability like his 4 yr old sister, who has only been at school since Sept and is already chattering and singing to herself in French. But he's very happy - the other kids have been entirely welcoming and adopted him like a sort of pet, and he's slowly getting there. He understands a lot more than he lets on, I think, and is just starting to say the odd phrase in French when he's speaking to us, without him even realising he's doing it, which is very comic.

I'm taking a sort of modular view to his education; he doesn't need to study all subjects simultaneously for the whole period, as long as he ends up educated as an adult. So at the moment, he's very heavy on Modern Languages and doing almost no English Language Arts other than reading. Lots of crafts and gym, no English History. It'll all come together at the end, though... I think...

Note to Mod: perhaps this should be moved to Families in a day or two, once the OP has had a chance to come back here and find the replies

Is your goal to stay here (in which case I would go local school from the statrt) or to move on within a few years (in which case I would recommend international school if you can afford it or if the employer pays for it)?

For some reason I already know what she's going to say... I'm telepathic like that.

D'oh. I read the OP three times and still missed that.



On that case - disregard ... squawking VFR and changing frequency.



Off to the coffee machine I go ...

I haven't time to provide links at the moment. But there are several very informative threads about international and Swiss schools in the Family Matters/Health area, a search is well worth it.

True. Given the age of your children, the 8-year old will be O.K. Plenty of time to learn German. With the 11 and 12 year old it is more difficult. I would suggest that you contact the local school authority and discuss the options with them. You must keep in mind that the school system here differs very much from canton to canton, so the experience of people in Vaud is not applicable to the system in Zurich or Geneva etc.

If you do want to have the childeren in the local school (which is what we opted for for our daughter), you could maybe consider having them resit a grade just for the sake of language? As I suggested, talk to your future local authority


This should not happen, and if it is a concern than be open about it when you talk to the teachers at the school(s).

I have several colleges at work who have opted for one of the international schools in the Lehman region (no naming) for the schooling of their children and I can only say that I am very happy to have opted for the state schools for my daughter. You can PM me if you want details .

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You can't be lost if you don't care where you are

Just to say we wanted our son to try the local school and he has enjoyed attending,he was 11 when we moved here and now he is nearly 13. He was offered to resit another year due to his German only not his ability as his teacher informed us very early,he hasnt settled over the last few months and has struggled in other areas these being afterschool activities,and no friends out of school, this has been detremental as he is very sociable. We have tried to overcome the barriers and visited all avenues and now we have decided to place him into the International school,not for education but the whole person.and he already knows some children. His present teacher agrees and he has given immense support.

I would say try the local system your boys already have each other and every place is different.Dont forget they are also off from 12 at least 2 afternoons week.
Good Luck with what you choose and hope they settle.

"Most private schools (I'm not talking about the International Schools here) pick up the kids that for some reason are failing in the state system. Such schools and their pupils thus have the stigma of rich parents trying to help failing kids by throwing money at them. Before volunatrily considering sending your kids to such a school, you should ask yourself if this is the message you want to put out and the stigma you want to place on your kids."[/quote]

I work at a private school in ZH and can assure you that this is not the case! Most of our kids start in kindergarten and are most definitely not failing! Not all the parents are 'rich' either and they are certainly not stigmatised for attending our school

Back to original thread - I would recommend the swiss state school route, for all the reasons others have already mentioned. We have been very happy with it so far. However, our daughter was very young when we arrived, so went through kindergarten and is now in 1st year primary. I can't comment on how it is for non-german speakers who are already heading towarsd or in secondary school.
Good luck with the decision making process

This cantonal education policy thing is the very devil, isn't it! This is not the case here in Vaud - my 8 yr old in 3rd grade does 8.30-12.00 each day, then 2.00-3.30, except on Wednesdays, his only afternoon off (my daughter gets more time off, but she's 4).

But it's still a good point, it's worth checking the school hours, and the streaming system for wherever the OP would be based, as it may impact on the decision.

kodokan

Dear Szhjcn,

I guessed that you are taxed at source. Get an accountant and offset the Krippe bill against your income. In our canton we can offset CHF 4K per child per year. It may be worth a consultation. You may get a tax rebate!

Isn't the 4k a standard amount that you can deduct per child? In Zug this is 6k and they are talking about wanting to increase this to 10k.