Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Family matters/health
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 16.04.2009, 13:26
Owl and Pussycat's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Schwyz
Posts: 191
Groaned at 40 Times in 18 Posts
Thanked 144 Times in 78 Posts
Owl and Pussycat has earned some respectOwl and Pussycat has earned some respect
Re: Acknowledgement of paternity/Child support - please help

Quote:
View Post
Because of an international agreement: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_s..._jurisdictions
One focus of Article 27 of the Declaration on the Rights of the Child is the establishment and strengthening of international treaties to further aid in child support order enforcement across national and international boundaries.[76] Under these agreements, orders established in one country are considered valid and enforceable in another country, and may be pursued through local court processes. The goal of such conventions is to ensure that noncompliant parents will not be able to evade support payments by crossing an international border.
(Regardless the father's nationality, with maybe a few exceptions.)

Ok, but the enforcement will be by the legal system in the country where you are living. Swiss courts have no jurisdiction outside Switzerland.

So you need to nip down your local lawyer for a chat, not here in CH.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 16.04.2009, 13:46
Itzoe's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Vaud
Posts: 307
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 103 Times in 68 Posts
Itzoe has earned some respectItzoe has earned some respect
Re: Acknowledgement of paternity/Child support - please help

Quote:
View Post
Her Swiss father is required by the authorities to pay a measly 600 CHF per month in child support, but he is completely delinquent in his payments. I don't chase after him for this pathetic amount because it will buy me maybe a couple packs of diapers and a dozen or so jars of baby food. Not worth the aggravation.
Ok - i normally avoid these conversations...but honestly 600chf a month only gets you some diapers and a few baby food jars! serioulsy where are you shopping - yes children are expensive - but we manage on a lower amount.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Itzoe for this useful post:
  #63  
Old 16.04.2009, 13:57
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 12
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
vlinder78 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Acknowledgement of paternity/Child support - please help

Quote:
View Post
Ok, but the enforcement will be by the legal system in the country where you are living. Swiss courts have no jurisdiction outside Switzerland.

So you need to nip down your local lawyer for a chat, not here in CH.
That we already have, she refers us to contact a Swiss lawyer. So that's what we are going to do.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 16.04.2009, 14:07
Aeneas's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Winterthur, ZH
Posts: 953
Groaned at 37 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 958 Times in 458 Posts
Aeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Acknowledgement of paternity/Child support - please help

Quote:
View Post
That we already have, she refers us to contact a Swiss lawyer. So that's what we are going to do.
Why? The legal onus is for her to pursue him in the country where he is resident, until that happens there is no legal case.

Unless, by some bizarre twist of economics, lawyers where you live are more expensive than in Switzerland, I would suggest you speak to a local lawyer first as that is where any legal battle will be fought, unless:
  • The two of you move to Switzerland
  • He intends to pursue his rights as a father (in which case he will have to do so in Switzerland).
It may make sense to engage a Swiss lawyer at some stage, but you should speak to a local one first.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 16.04.2009, 14:17
herc82's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,625
Groaned at 10 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 973 Times in 604 Posts
herc82 has a reputation beyond reputeherc82 has a reputation beyond reputeherc82 has a reputation beyond reputeherc82 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Acknowledgement of paternity/Child support - please help

Quote:
View Post
It may make sense to engage a Swiss lawyer at some stage, but you should speak to a local one first.
But does that make sense? Will a case (if there is one) not be tried where the child is? Or are there other deciding factors?

There seem to be a few unclear points here... anybody can write an official looking letter. But are the real authorities involved at all... has the man be identified as the father by a neutral society/law - to acknowledge fathership will be something different... who sets the amount of the alimony etc...

These questions better be answered by the authorities instead of armchair law enthusiasts... IMO
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 16.04.2009, 14:49
Aeneas's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Winterthur, ZH
Posts: 953
Groaned at 37 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 958 Times in 458 Posts
Aeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Acknowledgement of paternity/Child support - please help

Quote:
View Post
But does that make sense? Will a case (if there is one) not be tried where the child is? Or are there other deciding factors?
Of course it will, however any judgement there would need to be enforced where the father is, and that is not Switzerland. My understanding is that enforcement of international child or spousal maintenance orders is in theory straightforward, but in reality results in all sorts of appeals given the legal and economic differences between the two countries involved. A Swiss court could award the mother 100'000 SFr p.m. if it wanted, but that is worthless if it is appealed sucessfully where he lives. Indeed, it is worthless if she does not have an address for him.
Quote:
These questions better be answered by the authorities instead of armchair law enthusiasts... IMO
I agree, which is why I think everyone has suggested that her partner seek professional legal advice.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 16.04.2009, 17:37
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 2,090
Groaned at 34 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 2,072 Times in 1,059 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Acknowledgement of paternity/Child support - please help

Quote:
View Post
Hi Jim, thanks. But we don't live in Switzerland.
Yes, but they probably went of the last tax return filed in Switzerland....

Jim
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 16.04.2009, 22:43
mamazurich's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 178
Groaned at 7 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 86 Times in 39 Posts
mamazurich is considered knowledgeablemamazurich is considered knowledgeablemamazurich is considered knowledgeable
Re: Acknowledgement of paternity/Child support - please help

Quote:
View Post
Ok - i normally avoid these conversations...but honestly 600chf a month only gets you some diapers and a few baby food jars! serioulsy where are you shopping - yes children are expensive - but we manage on a lower amount.

My point was more to illustrate that 600 CHF a month doesn't get you a whole lot when you consider the overall costs of raising a child in CH. I pay 2,500 CHF each month for daycare alone in Zurich- just one of the many expenses.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 16.04.2009, 22:51
mamazurich's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 178
Groaned at 7 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 86 Times in 39 Posts
mamazurich is considered knowledgeablemamazurich is considered knowledgeablemamazurich is considered knowledgeable
Re: Acknowledgement of paternity/Child support - please help

Quote:
View Post
Why? The legal onus is for her to pursue him in the country where he is resident, until that happens there is no legal case.

Unless, by some bizarre twist of economics, lawyers where you live are more expensive than in Switzerland, I would suggest you speak to a local lawyer first as that is where any legal battle will be fought, unless:
  • The two of you move to Switzerland
  • He intends to pursue his rights as a father (in which case he will have to do so in Switzerland).
It may make sense to engage a Swiss lawyer at some stage, but you should speak to a local one first.

Aeneas, I see from your profile that you are an IT Consultant. I suggest you stick to that and let the lawyers provide the advice (as you have suggested vlinder do). You are making legal conclusions which have no basis or foundation.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at mamazurich for this post:
  #70  
Old 16.04.2009, 22:58
Itzoe's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Vaud
Posts: 307
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 103 Times in 68 Posts
Itzoe has earned some respectItzoe has earned some respect
Re: Acknowledgement of paternity/Child support - please help

Quote:
View Post
My point was more to illustrate that 600 CHF a month doesn't get you a whole lot when you consider the overall costs of raising a child in CH. I pay 2,500 CHF each month for daycare alone in Zurich- just one of the many expenses.
I agree that if you include the cost of childcare then 600 is not enough - my point was if you exclude that cost, then 600 is really quite fair
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Itzoe for this useful post:
  #71  
Old 16.04.2009, 23:11
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 12
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
vlinder78 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Acknowledgement of paternity/Child support - please help

Quote:
View Post
Aeneas, I see from your profile that you are an IT Consultant. I suggest you stick to that and let the lawyers provide the advice (as you have suggested vlinder do). You are making legal conclusions which have no basis or foundation.
Aeneas, your replies have been helpful
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank vlinder78 for this useful post:
  #72  
Old 16.04.2009, 23:17
cmh cmh is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: BL
Posts: 4
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
cmh has no particular reputation at present
Re: Acknowledgement of paternity/Child support - please help

Good luck finding a lawyer in Switzerland! The lawyer will also be able to tell you, if your boyfriend will be allowed to have a place in the child's life, even if the mother does not want this.

Anger and frustration with the mother are very understandable. I think it is important to think what kind of relationship / impression your boyfriend wants to make on this child. Does he want to be the father who refused to admit paternity, refused to make payments and refused to have any contact with it, because he is angry with the mother, or does he want to be the father who made the payments, fought to be in its life and wanted the best for the child in spite of the circumstances? I know I put this black/white, but it is important to think of the child as a real person and not a circumstance. No matter what the circumstances are, it is there and - as you said - deserves a father in its life. Good luck with coming to terms with the feeelings towards the mother! It sounds like an awful situation to be in.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 16.04.2009, 23:17
Itzoe's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Vaud
Posts: 307
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 103 Times in 68 Posts
Itzoe has earned some respectItzoe has earned some respect
Re: Acknowledgement of paternity/Child support - please help

Good luck with getting the advice you need - I hope you manage to find a lawyer that can help you - it all sounds quite complicated
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 17.04.2009, 12:40
Aeneas's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Winterthur, ZH
Posts: 953
Groaned at 37 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 958 Times in 458 Posts
Aeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Acknowledgement of paternity/Child support - please help

Quote:
View Post
You are making legal conclusions which have no basis or foundation.
And that would be your professional legal opinion?

I've been in litigation over the years enough times (I've lost count actually) to have learned a little on the subject. I've also know guys in similar positions and seen what they've gone through, and even a mother on the other side of the fence and how things played out for her.

The first lesson I learned (not a family law case, but the same principle applies) is don't panic; a threat is just a threat and it's importance should not be exaggerated (neither should it necessarily be ignored). People will get a threat, or even a solicitor's letter, and suddenly overreact; hire the most expensive lawyer around only to find later that the whole thing was a bluff.

I've given a few opinions based upon my and the experience of people I've known. But I have also underlined that they should seek professional legal advice too but not to feel they suddenly have to hire an expensive lawyer in a foreign country immediately, before consulting one locally. He/she may recommend such a move, but they may also consider it a complete waste of money.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Aeneas for this useful post:
  #75  
Old 17.04.2009, 12:42
Aeneas's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Winterthur, ZH
Posts: 953
Groaned at 37 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 958 Times in 458 Posts
Aeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Acknowledgement of paternity/Child support - please help

Quote:
View Post
I know I put this black/white, but it is important to think of the child as a real person and not a circumstance. No matter what the circumstances are, it is there and - as you said - deserves a father in its life.
What bugs me is that if the mother didn't want a child you'd probably support either her right to abortion or adoption. Do as I say, don't do as I do.
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 17.04.2009, 14:20
cmh cmh is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: BL
Posts: 4
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
cmh has no particular reputation at present
Re: Acknowledgement of paternity/Child support - please help

Quote:
View Post
What bugs me is that if the mother didn't want a child you'd probably support either her right to abortion or adoption. Do as I say, don't do as I do.
I do not want to get into any discussions on abortion/adoption/the morals of this mother etc.

The child is there and is blameless. A baby now, but a real person in a couple of years. For the child's sake it would be good to take it from there and make a plan, according to the own moral code of Vlinder and her boyfriend. They need to be able to look themselves and the child in the eyes in 20 years.
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 17.04.2009, 14:27
Aeneas's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Winterthur, ZH
Posts: 953
Groaned at 37 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 958 Times in 458 Posts
Aeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond reputeAeneas has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Acknowledgement of paternity/Child support - please help

Quote:
View Post
I do not want to get into any discussions on abortion/adoption/the morals of this mother etc.
No, but you appear to have no problem getting into discussions on the morals of the father. As I said; do as I say, don't do as I do.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 17.04.2009, 15:07
cmh cmh is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: BL
Posts: 4
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
cmh has no particular reputation at present
Re: Acknowledgement of paternity/Child support - please help

Quote:
View Post
No, but you appear to have no problem getting into discussions on the morals of the father. As I said; do as I say, don't do as I do.
Maybe you should think of it as refreshing: after centuries of men walking out on women, denying fatherhood and - in a lot of cases - no way for women to proof this and make them jointly responsible for the child they have created together and all the dire social consequences this had for these "illegitimate" children, this is certainly a new way the courts and society look after children .

Sorry Vlinder, this discussion won't help you. I wish the both of you good luck with finding a lawyer and finding a solution that you can both live with.
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 17.04.2009, 15:24
mamazurich's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 178
Groaned at 7 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 86 Times in 39 Posts
mamazurich is considered knowledgeablemamazurich is considered knowledgeablemamazurich is considered knowledgeable
Re: Acknowledgement of paternity/Child support - please help

Quote:
View Post
And that would be your professional legal opinion?
Yes, it would. I'm a lawyer.
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 17.04.2009, 15:26
mamazurich's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 178
Groaned at 7 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 86 Times in 39 Posts
mamazurich is considered knowledgeablemamazurich is considered knowledgeablemamazurich is considered knowledgeable
Re: Acknowledgement of paternity/Child support - please help

Quote:
View Post
I've been in litigation over the years enough times (I've lost count actually) to have learned a little on the subject. I've also know guys in similar positions and seen what they've gone through, and even a mother on the other side of the fence and how things played out for her.
Getting sued or suing more times than you can remember does not qualify you to offer legal advice.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
child support, paternity




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Paternity Leave Thambo Employment 26 16.03.2011 11:01
child support, how much? support2 Family matters/health 2 27.01.2009 19:58
Taxation of child support payments TOPO Finance/banking/taxation 1 21.05.2008 21:49
renouncing paternity babz Family matters/health 16 18.06.2007 16:50


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:52.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0