Pls help - Is there an agreement between UK and CH for higher education?

sojoh · #1 16.04.2009, 17:30

I would really appreciate hearing about other people's experiences in this area.

Our daughter (Swiss/American) will start her Master's Degree at the University of Edinburgh in September. The university is charging the international rate, but friends keep telling us that she should pay the local/EU rate because there is some sort of agreement between Switzerland and the UK. Does anyone know the name of this agreement or have more information about it? We recently saw an article saying that students from the UK who are pursuing higher degrees in Switzerland will pay the local fees. It seems as if it should be reciprocal.

Any and all help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Shorrick Mk2 · #2 16.04.2009, 17:36

	Quote:	sojoh
	We recently saw an article saying that students from the UK who are pursuing higher degrees in Switzerland will pay the local fees.

There's no such thing as local / international fees in Swiss universities.

sojoh · #3 16.04.2009, 17:40

Well, maybe they just make a difference for Americans, because we have to pay a higher rate. It seems only fair because the university fees in the USA are astronomical. I'll see if I can find the article.

Any idea about a reciprocal agreement with the UK?

jrspet · #4 16.04.2009, 17:42

This was a response from a Uni in CH:

	Quote:
	B: Students outside of Europe have to pay a semester fee of CH 10'000.-- except if they have lived and paid taxes in Switzerland for at least 2 years there might be a chance that they will be subsidized by the county.

Prospective student was non-European by nationality.

elgin_ed · #5 16.04.2009, 17:45

Also there isnt really a local UK rate - scottish students dont pay fees at scottish university.

Saw this on the heriot watt site - not sure if it is any help to you

Will I have to pay tuition fees when I am a student? If you are a Scottish or EU student from outside the UK studying at a Scottish university, you won't have to pay tuition tees. The Student Awards Agency for Scotland (SAAS), will pay the full amount each year on your behalf, regardless of your family income. This also applies to mature students in the above categories.
Remember, you must still submit an application to SAAS to have your fees paid for you, even if you are not applying for any other means of support.

What is the situation for those applying for entry in 2009?
For 2009 entry, universities and colleges in England, Wales and Northern Ireland will charge new students up to £3,225 a year for their courses.
Scottish and EU students from outside the UK studying in Scotland will continue to have their fees paid for them by SAAS.

rhodemi1 · #6 16.04.2009, 17:46

My son is looking into going to uni for his Bachelors degree next year, we have been doing some research and have also been dealing with his school. We have been told that for students holding an EU passport ,that if they go to a Scottish Uni there are no tuition fees to pay. The same for any Scottish students. This does not apply to English students though.

I am sorry but I do not know of that also applies to people studying a Masters. Perhaps a phone call to the Uni would help?

sojoh · #7 16.04.2009, 17:46

Right, so if European/UK students are charged less in Switzerland than those from outside Europe/UK, do you know if the UK reciprocates?

bill_door · #8 16.04.2009, 17:47

	Quote:	Shorrick Mk2
	There's no such thing as local / international fees in Swiss universities.

eh yes there are! international students pay about 2x the home grown EU variety in Ireland i'm sure and in the UK and pretty much in all EU countries as well i'm pretty sure.

that's where they make their money and why so many middle east students can afford to do medical courses over here.

e.g. http://www.ucd.ie/registry/adminserv...ergraduate.htm

sojoh · #9 16.04.2009, 17:51

The University of Edinburgh has told our daughter that she has to pay the international fee. We've been letting her handle everything.

But friends keep telling us that Swiss students (she doesn't hold an EU passport) should pay EU fees. They have also warned us that we may have to fight a bit because the university tries to charge the higher fees. Before calling the uni, i would like to know the name of the agreement so that I have a more valid argument.

The financial difference will mean quite a bit to our daughter. If she pays the EU fees she may be able to live on more than bread and water!

rhodemi1 · #10 16.04.2009, 17:56

I think the important thing is not where she resides, but what her passport is. We have friends who have lived here for many years, longer than they did in their home country, but because their passports are non EU they had would have to pay international fees. Sorry.

jrspet · #11 16.04.2009, 17:56

Fee status

	Quote:
	Your tuition fee status and the level of tuition fee that you will pay is determined by your nationality and the country where you are ‘ordinarily resident’ and in accordance with the regulations with which institutions must work in assessing fee status detailed in the Education (Fees and Awards) (Scotland) Regulations 2007. It will determine whether you are required to pay tuition fees at the home rate (UK and EU students) or at the overseas rate.

Guidelines - PDF

	Quote:
	CATEGORY 1: Those who are 'settled' in the UK and meet the main residence requirements In order to qualify for ‘home’ fees under this category, you must meet all of the following criteria: (a) you must be 'settled' in the UK [see Box 1] on 1 August, 1 January, 1 April or 1 July closest to the beginning of the first term of the first year of your course AND (b) you must also have been 'ordinarily resident' [see Box 2] in the UK and Islands (the Islands means the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man) for the full three year period before the date in (a) above. For example, if your course begins in September 2008, the date in (a) above will be 1 August 2008 and you must have been ordinarily resident in the UK and Islands from 1 August 2005 to 31 July 2008. AND (c) the main purpose for your residence in the UK and islands must not have been to receive full-time education during any part of that three-year period. NOTE: It is not necessary to have had 'settled' immigration status in the UK [see Box 1] for three years.

	Quote:
	CATEGORY 2: Those who are 'settled' in the UK and have exercised a 'right of residence' in the EEA and/or Switzerland You satisfy the qualifying conditions for this category if : (a) you are ‘settled’* in the United Kingdom [see Box 1] AND (b) after having been ‘settled’* in the UK you have left the UK and exercised a right of residence (a right of residence covers those people and their family members who are in the EEA [see Box 5] and/or Switzerland as workers or self-employed people, or as students or self-sufficient people) AND (c) you have been ordinarily resident [see Box 2] in the EEA and/or Switzerland for the three years preceding 1 August, 1 January, 1 April or 1 July closest to the beginning of the first term of the first year of your course AND (d) in a case where the ordinary residence referred to in (c) above was wholly or mainly for the purposes of receiving full-time education, you were ordinarily resident in EEA/Switzerland immediately before that three-year period. *if you are the family member of a UK national, these requirements to be, or to have been, settled do not apply to you.

PDF has more info.

bill_door · #12 16.04.2009, 17:57

	Quote:	sojoh
	Right, so if European/UK students are charged less in Switzerland than those from outside Europe/UK, do you know if the UK reciprocates?

i am pretty sure this is the case. CH has been 100% integrated into the EU academic system. try a google search for bi-lateral agreements relating to this topic.

in your situation CH is part of the EU and you should be paying EU fees, but it depends on the fine details. the rules may insist that the applicant have been resident in the EU for at least X amount of time, an EU passport may not be enough.

Roman · #13 16.04.2009, 18:02

Did you check the internet site of crus?

http://www.crus.ch/information-progr...tml?no_cache=1

sojoh · #14 16.04.2009, 18:05

Jrspet, thanks for the link to the ukcisa site. We "tried" to understand the legalese a few months ago when the question first arose.

I think that Category 2 may refer to citizens of the UK living in Switzerland and not to Swiss citizens. I'll have to read it again.

She fulfills all of the other residency requirements because she went to high school in Switzerland. She's doing her undergrad degree in the States, but the UK waives the residency requirement if you are pursuing a degree abroad.

sojoh · #15 16.04.2009, 18:09

	Quote:	Roman
	Did you check the internet site of crus? http://www.crus.ch/information-progr...tml?no_cache=1

Roman, thanks for this info. I'll call them tomorrow to ask for advice!

#16 16.04.2009, 18:26

I hope this simple summary helps:

Students who have EU (including UK) or Swiss nationality and have been living in the EU or Switzerland for the last 3 years are treated the same as English and Welsh students in universities in England and Wales, and Scottish students in Scotland.

UK students who have been living in Switzerland due to their parent's moving for work are treated the same as UK residents as long as they are normally resident in the UK on day 1 of the course (essentially meaning that they intend to remain in the UK for career purposes) but they do have to pay university fees in Scotland whereas Scottish students do not.

A practical example is my daughter who goes to Univeristy in Wales in September - she pays the same fees and gets the same benefits as Welsh students.

imo the op has been misinformed by the Scottish university - the rules are over-compex and easy to misinterpret - most local Gov't officials on both sides of the equation do not have a good grasp of the bilateral agreements between the EU member states and Switzerland.

sojoh · #17 16.04.2009, 18:30

	Quote:	swissbob
	A practical example is my daughter who goes to Univeristy in Wales in September - she pays the same fees and gets the same benefits as Welsh students. imo the op has been misinformed by the Scottish university - the rules are over-compex and easy to misinterpret - most local Gov't officials on both sides of the equation do not have a good grasp of the bilateral agreements between the EU member states and Switzerland.

Thanks, Swissbob! Does your daughter hold a Swiss passport or a UK/EU one?

I think (hope!) that you may be correct that we've been misinformed by the uni.

#18 16.04.2009, 18:44

	Quote:	sojoh
	Thanks, Swissbob! Does your daughter hold a Swiss passport or a UK/EU one? I think (hope!) that you may be correct that we've been misinformed by the uni.

UK - but CH is treated the same.

Jim2007 · #19 16.04.2009, 23:55

Well have spent the last 15 minutes or so reading through the Guidelines, it would appear to me that in order to get home fees status a Swiss student would have to meet the following criteria:

- Have at least one parent who is a Swiss national

- Have lived in Switzerland for the 3 years prior to the start date of your first term in college

- And for the three years mentioned above your main purpose of being in Switzerland was not for full time education, or it was, then you must have been resident in Switzerland immediately before that period.

If you meet all the above then you would qualify as Category 7 for home fees and that is the only way a Swiss with not no other connection to the UK can get home fees.

my 2c,

Jim

Jim2007 · #20 17.04.2009, 00:13

	Quote:	sojoh
	She fulfills all of the other residency requirements because she went to high school in Switzerland. She's doing her undergrad degree in the States, but the UK waives the residency requirement if you are pursuing a degree abroad.

Assuming either you or your husband is Swiss, then in the normal course of events your daughter would qualify for home fees, however the fact that she is doing her degree in the US at present would seem to cause some difficulty in meeting the residence requirements for Category 7, since there is a requirement that she should be resident in CH for the previous 3 years!!! It is worth having a go, perhaps with a bit of luck you can get them to accept that her time in the US does not count.

Anyway, good luck with that and let us know how it goes.

Jim