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Old 19.05.2014, 01:02
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Re: European Health Insurance Card in switzerland

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500-900 euro annually and is not compulsory. You have basic emergency and hospital covered as well as outpatient visits costs in your taxes. I won't be a student but neither I will be employed in Switzerland.
How much of your taxes to go to health care?

It doesn't matter if you are employed here or not. The unemployed, children, retired, etc are all also obliged to be insured as are those who work over the internet and live in Switzerland.
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Old 19.05.2014, 01:05
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Re: European Health Insurance Card in switzerland

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How much of your taxes to go to health care?

It doesn't matter if you are employed here or not. The unemployed, children, retired, etc are all also obliged to be insured as are those who work over the internet and live in Switzerland.
Thanks for clarification but I will be insured. My question was whether or not it can be external company to offset draconian prices
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Old 19.05.2014, 01:10
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Re: European Health Insurance Card in switzerland

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Thanks for clarification but I will be insured. My question was whether or not it can be external company to offset draconian prices
Not likely. You'll have to prove to the authorities that the insurance you are getting outside is equivalent to the Swiss minimum/law/etc. Vaud is particularly tough to convince. But try.

The basic is not THAT expensive. I pay 200CHF for basic and I'm a old(ish) lady. Women pay more. How old are you? Have you check comparis?

So, how much of your taxes in Ireland are used for health insurance? I haven't been able to find that info online .
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Old 19.05.2014, 01:14
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Re: European Health Insurance Card in switzerland

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Not likely. You'll have to prove to the authorities that the insurance you are getting outside is equivalent to the Swiss minimum/law/etc. Vaud is particularly tough to convince. But try.

The basic is not THAT expensive. I pay 200CHF for basic and I'm a old(ish) lady. Women pay more. How old are you? Have you check comparis?

So, how much of your taxes in Ireland are used for health insurance? I haven't been able to find that info online .
Private insurance which gives you similar benefits as those proposed by Swiss insurers costs 500-900 euro annually and is not compulsory. You have basic emergency and hospital covered as well as outpatient visits costs in your taxes. As for taxes, health insurance is pay-related so you pay certain percentage. In my case it is around 150euro a month. How much in taxes will my wife pay for health related federal costs?
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Old 19.05.2014, 01:15
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Re: European Health Insurance Card in switzerland

Jakub, I agree with you, insurance is expensive here, but then most people here earn twice as much, and pay half the taxes, as in other European countries.

Another financial problem is the insurance has 3 levels of premiums: children and youths <25, adults, & older people >55. But the insurance will pay all costs (minus the first 10%) without any medical inspection, and will treat all existing conditions. Not many insurance schemes in the world will do that. I am also pointing out that for the same medical complaint, the cost to the doctors and hospitals is exactly the same whether you are 8 or 80 years old, but the premiums vary with age. The complete basic scheme is set into health laws, and health companies have to get their prices of premiums approved by the government.

When comparing your home country with here, please do take into account the level of taxation. Here you pay about 15 % taxation plus your health insurance. At home you are paying (I think) about 40% tax including your "Free" insurance. (Figures are approximate, as each canton charges different rates).

One can use the EHIC card for the first 3 months here, provided one is not working or studying, ie you could be seen as a tourist. But as you are accompanying your spouse, I don't think you can swing that idea past the authorities.
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Old 19.05.2014, 01:23
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Re: European Health Insurance Card in switzerland

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Jakub, I agree with you, insurance is expensive here, but then most people here earn twice as much, and pay half the taxes, as in other European countries.

Another financial problem is the insurance has 3 levels of premiums: children and youths <25, adults, & older people >55. But the insurance will pay all costs (minus the first 10%) without any medical inspection, and will treat all existing conditions. Not many insurance schemes in the world will do that. I am also pointing out that for the same medical complaint, the cost to the doctors and hospitals is exactly the same whether you are 8 or 80 years old, but the premiums vary with age. The complete basic scheme is set into health laws, and health companies have to get their prices of premiums approved by the government.

When comparing your home country with here, please do take into account the level of taxation. Here you pay about 15 % taxation plus your health insurance. At home you are paying (I think) about 40% tax including your "Free" insurance. (Figures are approximate, as each canton charges different rates).

One can use the EHIC card for the first 3 months here, provided one is not working or studying, ie you could be seen as a tourist. But as you are accompanying your spouse, I don't think you can swing that idea past the authorities.
That is the problem here. I won't earn Swiss salary and I still have to pay taxes at home... The 40% you mention is with the Income tax which has variable rate depending on your income (it is around 30% though, maybe a little bit more). Health-related insurance is about 4% of your income. Good thing is that, as you say, my wife will only pay 15% of her income as taxes (providing it is true in Vaud region).
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Old 19.05.2014, 01:49
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European Health Insurance Card in switzerland

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How much in taxes will my wife pay for health related federal costs?

Zero. Health care is not provided through taxes.

Oh, and the Cigna international plan will cost you far more than the local Swiss insurance...and Cigna will exclude any pre-existing illnesses/conditions. The Swiss standard insurance covers all illnesses.
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Old 19.05.2014, 01:51
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Re: European Health Insurance Card in switzerland

Well as already stated, if you move here you will be paying Swiss taxes, so why should you pay Irish taxes? Is that an error? In most countries (Exceptions are the USA and Switzerland) you will only pay taxes on the money you earn world wide, to the country where you are living: not where you earnt it and not where your employer is located.
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Old 19.05.2014, 01:53
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Re: European Health Insurance Card in switzerland

One reason for mandatory participation is to ensure a reasonable risk pool. If what you wanted to do were easy, anybody young and healthy could sign up for some cheaper foreign scheme, and only switch to the Swiss national system if and when they came down with something serious. Remember that basic Swiss insurance is priced and offered without regard to any preexisting conditions.

If you search the forum, you can find talk of exceptions, but they seem rare and require more justification than "I can find cheaper insurance elsewhere."

Also, you might double check what your tax situation will be. As a Swiss resident, I think that you'll be expected to report your worldwide income to the Swiss tax authorities, but there is probably a tax treaty in play.
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Old 19.05.2014, 09:36
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Re: European Health Insurance Card in switzerland

Most of this was posted already but:

1. You will be resident in Switzerland - check how the situation regarding taxes is. If income is earned in Ireland though, I wouldn't doubt that the tax is paid in Ireland, but according to the double taxation treaty you may be able to e.g. deduct what you paid in Ireland against the taxes you pay here (you = as a couple).

2. Insurance here is expensive because even if you are young you are paying to cover the older people. Also, it covers pre-existing conditions. This doesn't happen in private insurances where higher risk people in Ireland would likely pay even more than you pay here in Switzerland, without getting coverage for pre-existing conditions.
In fact you were a bit unlucky because one of the exceptions to the compulsory insurance thing were academics in university, but I think your wife missed the boat on that one as they closed the loophole recently. You used to be able to get much cheaper insurance - precisely because you weren't paying for the older people.

3. If you compare things with other countries check how much % of your tax is going for health services (statistically, you are also paying "more" for the older people there). Perhaps an easier comparison would be Germany where the so-called Krankenkasse (compulsory) deduction is separate from tax and also pretty significant.
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Old 19.05.2014, 11:52
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Re: European Health Insurance Card in switzerland

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Zero. Health care is not provided through taxes.

Oh, and the Cigna international plan will cost you far more than the local Swiss insurance...and Cigna will exclude any pre-existing illnesses/conditions. The Swiss standard insurance covers all illnesses.
Not so, I got several quotes for me and my wife and they still were the cheapest (compared to the comparis results) with they gold plan covering in and outpatient care, emergency, zero deductible and zero costs participation, maternal care, prenatal care.Yes, they do not cover any preexisting conditions, but then I don't have any - we are in perfect health so far (finger crossed!) And this is what bothers me the most in Swiss covers - 10% of initial costs plus deductible around 200-300 franks, as if I didn't pay them enough with monthly premium...

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Most of this was posted already but:

1. You will be resident in Switzerland - check how the situation regarding taxes is. If income is earned in Ireland though, I wouldn't doubt that the tax is paid in Ireland, but according to the double taxation treaty you may be able to e.g. deduct what you paid in Ireland against the taxes you pay here (you = as a couple).

2. Insurance here is expensive because even if you are young you are paying to cover the older people. Also, it covers pre-existing conditions. This doesn't happen in private insurances where higher risk people in Ireland would likely pay even more than you pay here in Switzerland, without getting coverage for pre-existing conditions.
In fact you were a bit unlucky because one of the exceptions to the compulsory insurance thing were academics in university, but I think your wife missed the boat on that one as they closed the loophole recently. You used to be able to get much cheaper insurance - precisely because you weren't paying for the older people.

3. If you compare things with other countries check how much % of your tax is going for health services (statistically, you are also paying "more" for the older people there). Perhaps an easier comparison would be Germany where the so-called Krankenkasse (compulsory) deduction is separate from tax and also pretty significant.
In every system you are paying for elders - that is unavoidable.

1. Thank you for advise! I will check with the local revenue office about double taxation if you say I'am obliged to pay taxes in Switzerland even If I'm not using their system and do not earn the salary there. But if it is the case, I am paying a lot higher taxes in Ireland than I would in Switzerland so maybe it is worth trying...

2. Higher risk patients pay more but only with the additional private insurance. Standard insurance is equal for everyone (in aspect of availability and level of medical care) and is calculated at about 4% of your income.

3. Please see point 2
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Old 19.05.2014, 12:02
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Re: European Health Insurance Card in switzerland

Unfortunately, I think you're totally missing the point here. You say you don't need the coverage that is included with the Swiss basic plans. To be blunt, the Swiss authorities don't care what you think you need. The law says if you're a resident here you have to have insurance that complies with the rules here...and most international insurances don't fit that bill. Sometimes it's because the insurance won't cover pregnancy (even if you're a guy and don't need it) and other little fine details.

You're not the first person to be upset about the costs and looking for a work-around. However if it was that easy/cheap to get out of Swiss insurance everyone would be switching to an international plan. They write the rules and coverage requirements in such a way that you're pretty much stuck. The only question then is which company, and how high of a franchise/deductible should you choose. Sorry!
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Old 19.05.2014, 12:07
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Re: European Health Insurance Card in switzerland

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Unfortunately, I think you're totally missing the point here. You say you don't need the coverage that is included with the Swiss basic plans. To be blunt, the Swiss authorities don't care what you think you need. The law says if you're a resident here you have to have insurance that complies with the rules here...and most international insurances don't fit that bill. Sometimes it's because the insurance won't cover pregnancy (even if you're a guy and don't need it) and other little fine details.
And you are missing my point as well. The insurance I have checked with Cigna covers much more than basic and even intermediate Swiss cover. As you said,most international insurances don't fit that bill - that implies there are some that do and I am looking for that one, asking questions in this topic.

EDIT: I found a document in which there is described an agreement between CH and ROI. If I am deemed as a resident of Switzerland, I should be exempt of any taxes and contributions to the Irish system. That would increase my salary to the point that I would be able afford to pay any contributions and take up a Swiss health cover with no problems at all! So it seems I have to pay a visit to the revenue office soon...

http://www.revenue.ie/en/practitione...itzerland.html
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Old 19.05.2014, 12:15
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Re: European Health Insurance Card in switzerland

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And you are missing my point as well. The insurance I have checked with Cigna covers much more than basic and even intermediate Swiss cover. As you said,most international insurances don't fit that bill - that implies there are some that do and I am looking for that one, asking questions in this topic.
By the way, in the "meantime" (ie from your arrival to the point where you get your "officially accepted Swiss health insurance"), I think you can use your European Card (provided its only a few weeks of "transition" residency).

But it's a mess of administration and procedures, so better to avoid any health cost if possible. FYI, they will most likely be 100% out of your pocket and massive pain to get any refund- refund which never happened for me.

Countries are eager to get your money for funding their system, but when you try legitimately to get a small refund, there's no one anymore-
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Old 19.05.2014, 21:18
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Re: European Health Insurance Card in switzerland

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And you are missing my point as well. The insurance I have checked with Cigna covers much more than basic and even intermediate Swiss cover. As you said,most international insurances don't fit that bill - that implies there are some that do and I am looking for that one, asking questions in this topic.

EDIT: I found a document in which there is described an agreement between CH and ROI. If I am deemed as a resident of Switzerland, I should be exempt of any taxes and contributions to the Irish system. That would increase my salary to the point that I would be able afford to pay any contributions and take up a Swiss health cover with no problems at all! So it seems I have to pay a visit to the revenue office soon...

http://www.revenue.ie/en/practitione...itzerland.html
It seems to be that a lot of very big assumptions have been made in the advice you have been given, so can you please explain a typical month in your life?

You will remain employed by an Irish employer, right? How often will you have to visit Ireland each month? When you visit Ireland, where will you stay? Do you still have accommodation in Ireland?

I suspect that you will be considered to be dual resident as opposed to being resident just in one country. If that is the case, then you will be required to have a Swiss residents permit, file tax returns in both countries and probably pay Irish social security rather than Swiss social security provided your residence here is for a short term - two years should be OK.

The health insurance requirements may also be different for a dual resident who's total income comes from the other state and especially if he pays social security there, but I'm not really up to date on that stuff.

I would strongly recommend that you consult a professional on this as it is more complex that the typical questions and experiences up here.
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Old 19.05.2014, 22:16
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Re: European Health Insurance Card in switzerland

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It seems to be that a lot of very big assumptions have been made in the advice you have been given, so can you please explain a typical month in your life?

You will remain employed by an Irish employer, right? How often will you have to visit Ireland each month? When you visit Ireland, where will you stay? Do you still have accommodation in Ireland?

I suspect that you will be considered to be dual resident as opposed to being resident just in one country. If that is the case, then you will be required to have a Swiss residents permit, file tax returns in both countries and probably pay Irish social security rather than Swiss social security provided your residence here is for a short term - two years should be OK.

The health insurance requirements may also be different for a dual resident who's total income comes from the other state and especially if he pays social security there, but I'm not really up to date on that stuff.

I would strongly recommend that you consult a professional on this as it is more complex that the typical questions and experiences up here.
Thank you for a valuable answer.

I don't know how often I will have to go to Ireland, probably once every one or two months. Is 2 years considered as short term residency? I will probably consult first our revenue and then go to similar office in Lausanne. I don't know French though so it might prove to be difficult. I know Italian but would it be any help?
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Old 19.05.2014, 22:32
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Re: European Health Insurance Card in switzerland

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Private insurance which gives you similar benefits as those proposed by Swiss insurers costs 500-900 euro annually and is not compulsory. You have basic emergency and hospital covered as well as outpatient visits costs in your taxes. As for taxes, health insurance is pay-related so you pay certain percentage. In my case it is around 150euro a month. How much in taxes will my wife pay for health related federal costs?
Your insurance is a supplement for emergencies not for day to day healthcare, which is why its cheap.
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Old 19.05.2014, 22:36
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Re: European Health Insurance Card in switzerland

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Your insurance is a supplement for emergencies not for day to day healthcare, which is why its cheap.
Nope you are wrong. It gives all the benefits of day - to -day health care. The social cover puts you on waiting lists while the private one lets you bypass the queues and gives you additional privileges. I have used the social medcare, unfortunately, when I dislocated my shoulder. I got free emergency, x-ray and setting, then free MRI scan and free physiotherapy. And all of this in normal cover deduced from my salary as described earlier.
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Old 19.05.2014, 23:21
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Re: European Health Insurance Card in switzerland

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Nope you are wrong. It gives all the benefits of day - to -day health care. The social cover puts you on waiting lists while the private one lets you bypass the queues and gives you additional privileges. I have used the social medcare, unfortunately, when I dislocated my shoulder. I got free emergency, x-ray and setting, then free MRI scan and free physiotherapy. And all of this in normal cover deduced from my salary as described earlier.

Well, then it's not free is it?

Anyway, as I said above, you can take the policy information to the authorities and ask them if they will accept it, if it meets the criteria for minimum coverage required.
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Old 19.05.2014, 23:39
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Re: European Health Insurance Card in switzerland

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Well, then it's not free is it?

Anyway, as I said above, you can take the policy information to the authorities and ask them if they will accept it, if it meets the criteria for minimum coverage required.
Nothing in this world is free :> They just do not charge any deductible or cost participation as many Swiss Insurers do. I will try to get info after settling down in Lausanne.
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