I would like to share our integration experiences, four years on.

We are a British family of five, my partner, myself and our three children, 6, 6, 4. We are into our fourth year here and live in a small village towards the German border. We are having some real issues with our twin boys, they are being often forced together due to circumstances and many of the friends they have made (expat) have left as time has gone bye, so they have very few friends, which generally have left us and them sad. We heard a few weeks that their best friend going back to the UK in April and naturally they are devistasted. Unfortunately we have had to put them into International Schooling due to the fact that our B permits hinge on my partners position and we both work full time, I work for an overseas company and travel one week in two. Putting them into local schooling wasnot really a practical option due to the school timetable, coming home at lunchtimes and having Wednesday afternoon free.

Certain things have happened recently which questions us being here. We held a party last weekend, invited the neighbours and a number of expats and we never even got an acknowledgment that they had even received the invite from the locals. Naturally the expats came and a good time was had by all.

The boys attend Beavers, Play Ice Hockey and go to Muki-Turnen, gymnastics.

With Beavers we have be told that the boys are on the periphery of the group because they speak, high German instead of Swiss German and therefore are seen as different by the rest of the children.

With Ice Hockey its fine, since High German is spoken, since half of the team come from Germany.

Swimming - we stopped because the teacher could only speak Swiss German and the boys didn't understand all of her instruction and although they passed the fourth or fifth swimming badge after a semester with her the teacher wanted them to repeat the course, which we felt was a waste of time and money and gave the children no encouragement to go to the next level. It was a language issue not a Swimming one.

What brought everything home to us was with Mucki Tournen (childrens gymnastics). Due to the school holidays being slightly different, the boys missed the first practice for the show in three weeks time. For the second week they went off to rehearse and everything appeared to go well, they told us what they did and were happy. The third week came and the weather was bad, so my partner took them. She arrived on time at 16:30 as mentioned on the paper and the rehearsal had already started. OK one twin was reluctant to join the group and managed to persuade his brother not too as well. My partner was told that the boys couldn't join the Group, since they were messing about a bit last week. It basically boils down that they didn't understand some of the instruction in Swiss German and have been told that they cannot participate in the show. Why did no one tell us last week that there was a problem?

I am a fluent German speaker, but Swiss German is so different and people appear totally inflexible to speak High German that I just wonder where it leaves our boys, sad that have no local friends etc. The local children appear to shun the boys, because they are different and as a family we have tried to integrate as much as possible with local clubs etc, but it is proving a real barrier.

Our four year old spent time in Krippe here, speaks German and Swiss German and shows no fear in joining new groups and just gets on with things, but our boys have this language block with Swiss German and it is starting to be a real issue.

Has anyone had similar experiences? How can we get the boys more intune with Swiss German. We would love to stay in Switzerland, but not at the expense of two sad boys.

I would take a Swiss German course, learn the language myself, and have nothing else spoken in the house from day 1. They'll learn it and integrate pretty fast I'd think.

It's sad that you're (all) having such a hard time. It seems like you're doing all the right things. Have you considered becoming a border commuter and living in Germany instead of Thurgau?

btw - my two younger kids speak Swiss german like natives, though we speak ONLY English at home. (Swiss schooling, so not the same situation as you) My older son understands Swiss German, but speaks only Standard German. He didn't have many friends during Secondär, but is having no problems being integrated in Gymnasium. In fact, as in the higher parts of the school system, teachers and kids are supposed to speak High German, things should improve with age.

Regarding speaking only Swiss German at home. You should speak to your children for the vast majority of the time in your native language. To do otherwise harms their language acquisition.

You should also find that if you move out of your village into a city, that the locals are less parochial. Maybe you should forget about integration and just get them involved in expat activities.

One other thing occurs to me - send them to a private school where Swiss German is spoken. Such places do exist.

Standard German is the official language in the so called German speaking part of Switzerland. I needn't tell you that most of the natives speak it only on special occasions, because their native language, used for regular conversation, is Swiss German. However, practically all of them systematically learned Standard German in school, at least nine years! The same applies to people from the Romansh speaking part, by the way. What was all that tax money spent for when grown-up people act as if they were unable to speak Standard German?

Folks, it's mere laziness, arrogance, inhibitions or any combination of these! I am a native Swiss German speaker myself, and I cringe when I see how my compatriots make foreigners believe they cannot speak Standard German. Either they are too lazy to switch their slow brains to Standard German mode, they are so afraid to make mistakes while speaking Standard German that they rather keep their mouth shut, or they want to make you feel like an outsider.

There is absolutely no excuse for anyone holding any kind of position at, for instance, a school, an authority (Gemeinde and the like), a religious community, a club or whatever for allegedly not being able to speak Standard German. If that ever happens to you, just complain. Ask the person, "What did you learn all those years in school?" A swim teacher who can't speak Standard German? Inacceptable. Must be fired.

I feel ashamed of that kind of behavior of many of my compatriots. I know it happens pretty often. I don't understand it. If I were you, I would not accept it. Those people must be held responsible for what they are doing to you (unless there are other reasons that you did not tell us; but of course I do not assume that). You are fluent in German, so please stand on your hind legs and fight for your rights.

Move to a big city.
It's the best thing you can do. I found Zurich quite welcoming and easy to live in as a mother.
Hope it works out for you

Thanks for the replies - we sometimes think that we are penalised for having twins, with one child you can tell them to get on with it, but with twins, one twin will ask the other twin before they get on with it.

I would love to have more communication with some of the teachers we have had, ie the swimming teacher, but I was normally travelling when this occurred.

I get the feeling that the 'Swiss People' want to speak more Swiss German as time has gone bye, may be because of the influx of Germans, since restrictions were relaxed a couple of years ago. I understand that, but give us foreigners a chance, German is not our first language, but we will speak it when we talk to Swiss people.

It may get easier as the children get older, they are reading and writing in German at the same level of native speakers.

Captain Greybeard - If you called me on the phone and spoke Swiss German and I asked you to switch to standard German, would you be offended.
Most of my work is done in English, due to the nature of the business, but if I get a Swiss German speaker on the phone, I do understand more than I did, but generally I do ask them to spak standard German.

It is more difficult with young children, most haven't yet started standard German, so it is a bit of a shock for the local children, who come into contact with my boys. Kids can be cruel and our children are the ones, who are different.

I had also thought that because we are British, some Swiss may want to practice their English. May be I should offer some English conversational lessons for the locals to break the ice.

If I called you on the phone and realized you are not fluent in Swiss German, I would ask you what language you prefer, and I might do so even before you could ask me to speak Standard German. Of course I would ask my question either in Standard German or in English, if I heard an English accent. In my opinion that's elementary decency.

Why should anyone feel offended by your question? We learned Standard German for a purpose. So maybe we should add stupidity to my list (remember: laziness, inhibitions, arrogance).

I really feel for you and hope you find a good solution. We are a bilingual couple in a similar situation (both work) but our daughter was in a Swiss krippe as of 6 months old, so it's really her first language and it does make a difference for her. That said, here in ZH I have had no issues with people switching to high German if they hear I don't speak dialect, or if I ask nicely. So what you explained sounds really odd, even a bit mean, to me -- maybe you should move -- is that a possibility?

I completely understand why local schools don't work from a coordination perspective (we have run through every possible situation back and forth in the 5 years we've been here) but is there any way you could consider local schools with a nanny? Cost-wise it might come out the same and it would allow your kids to learn the language -- plus, their friends won't be coming and going as much as in their current school. This was one of the main reasons why we didn't choose one of the English-only international schools -- we didn't want her friends leaving all the time (that, and my husband is a German speaker while I am English native) because it's very expat-driven.

Long story short, do everything you can to make your kids happy. Life is too short. They don't deserve to be sad, so even if the local schools are not ideal (depending on where you live), if it helps them integrate and you can swing it somehow,or move, it might be the best solution.

Good luck and let us know how things turn out!

I can not agree more with the response move to a big city. I will not live in a village in Switzerland again. City is great though! Best wishes for you and the family! That is really sad when kids are sad. I feel for them. They will get through this, and they are not alone, they will always have each other And I am sure eventually they are going to pick up the Swiss German too..

That sucks.

We also live in a small village but have not yet experienced your type of issues (knock on wood). I can easily imagine it happening however. Our oldest is 6 and seems to be doing a pretty good job of integrating (much better than his parents). The only thing I can think of is to try to get your kids into the local school and maybe get a Swiss-German speaking au pair.

If we ever face issues like that, I think that would be the straw that breaks the back and we would move on to a friendlier country. Of course, these issues could have the positive effect of making your kids stronger individuals in a couple years time. Good luck!

Hi!

Why don't you take them a swiss nanny? They could learn the language from her and then maybe would be able to change the school also?

Good luck!

I was also going to suggest hiring a nanny instead of sending the boys to International school. This way they get to go to the local school, learn Swiss German & will integrate better. This is what works for us.

My advice would be to send the boys to a regular swiss school where they will learn swiss german and make more local friends.
With an international school you're setting yourself up for isolation and I myself would never ever send my children to an international school. The only exception to this rule in my book would be if you are here temporary and plan to go back home in 2/3 yrs time...

With respect to local school we have two issues:-

1: We believe that they are two years ahead of the local children, the boys can already read and write both in English and German and because their birthdays are mid July they miss cut off dates. We are frightened that they will be bored, the Swiss kids have just started sounding their letters.

2: An Swiss au pair nanny sounds like a good option, we have had au pairs in the past, but finding candidates is very difficult.

I should add that my partner works at the International School so we may be slightly biased.

I can not even imagine how you must feel. We are quite lucky in Geneva -- the French spoken here does not essentially differ from that in France (well, the French, in particular Parisians, will mock the 'Swiss' accent but that's about it).

The fact that we are so close to France means that in everyday communication you speak to a lot of people who are French. I actually hardly know anybody who is 100% Swiss. Almost all teachers that my children have had in both crèche and school have been French. I find it a bit surprising that the situation is not similar where you live and that nobody would speak standard German in a canton close to the German border.

It therefore seems to me that it is the question of attitude rather than aptitude.

Consider moving to Suisse Romande -- it is a different country

HI LJM - I think that because we are close to the German border it appears that the Swiss here like to differentiate themselves from their neighbours. There has been an influx of Germans into the region in the last couple of years.

The school can put the boys a year ahead of their age group if you talk to them and of course if they are willing. In our village school we have a couple of kids, both Swiss & non-Swiss, who are ahead based on their ability. It would be worth discussing with them.

All parents think their kids are special and ahead of the other ones

But even so, they may be ahead in reading and writing but they are behind as far as the (local) language goes. So the things your kids and the local kids get from a reading/writing lesson are different. The swiss children learn reading/writing, your kids learn swiss german all from the same lesson.

My GF also works in an international school, so as far as setting yourself up for isolation, I know what I am talking about. It has turned my 'bias' against international schools.

I am so sorry you are having such problems. i have to say that when i first came to switzerland i was in a similar situation , but there were some helpers as well. firstly i wasnt allowed any extra curicular activities until i mastered some swiss german , so ended up playing with some local children and there i learned swiss german quite quickly....it comes naturally after a while.
secondly the whole school ran on swiss german , hoch being spoken only in specifiesd lessons, so it was a must.
thirdly my teacher mr hunziger , god bless him, gave me one day of sign language to contend with then it was straight in. i was marked as if i was just plain ignorant. humiliating at the time , but boy did i learn fast.
i was lucky , my mum is swiss , but prior to arriving in CH i had no knowledge of swiss german so again i had no choice but to learn.
lastly , there were two germans , two italians and one spanish pupil who were less "cool" than the english guy , so save for a couple of fights and one attempt to strike ( not by me i hasten to add ) i got through it.
i was also alone and that meant that i had noone to revert to english with , which probably helped too.

ps ; children are hardy creatures .....!
i pray your situation improves and wish you all the very very best.