Fair enough. But I doubt anybody would seriously enter into a marriage purely to get away from Aunt Mildred's awkward questions every Boxing Day, would they?

People aren't as stupid and impressionable as some on this thread would like to think...

Agreed, but I still maintain that a universal prejudice exists.

to be honest DB, i know of 3 good friends who married purely because their biological clock was ticking - one has a great marriage, no kids (they tried but couldn't have any but are happy)
one has 3 kids (twins + 1) and are happy in love & with the kids but are heavily in debt, the other is not in love but has 2 kids and the husband is rich, so in that sense, she is happy , So it happens in all sorts of ways...

I m so glad my parents never put pressure on us. We re 3 girls, all with boyfriends, none is married, I m 29 and the youngest. The eldest is 39, no kids not married, changed of boyfriend 2 years ago and she s just so cool...and happy. To me the dog, the garden and the kids are not the only way to happiness, i m not obsessed by my biological watch but i think i want kids, i will do it when i will want it. I can t stand when some good intentioned people say to my boyfriend and me "so?? when do you get married?" Not their business even if the closest friends, it s like people project on you their hopes and i don t like it

Aunt Mildred and 'the biological clock' are horses of entirely different colours.

It is normal and natural to have an urge to procreate - are we really going to sit like King Canute in the face of the tide of life? - and that comes from within us, not from 'society' or 'family'.

To blame Aunt Mildred for that is just a little unfair.

well they also did not want to die alone...but i agree, the biological clock took over the "waiting for the ONE"

But Aunt Mildred would probably be the first person to point out the ticking clock.

Everybody thought Cassandra was a troublemaker, didn't they?

I'll value my urges on my own terms, thanks. But I do love sex for pleasure...

..I don't have urges to procreate. Because with procreation come big responsibilities.

So when are you getting married?

That's fair enough. I don't have urges to kill and eat my own food, but that doesn't make killing and eating my own food any less normal and natural, does it?

I think you'll find that nature has done that already for us.

Or are you suggesting that the urge to procreate is, somehow, unnatural and abnormal?

Well, you found the right place to get tons of advice on casual sex: "Casual Sex". It doesn't mean anything.

Love, passion, pleasure...
But do you think that after 10, 15 years of marriage - with children coming to sleep in your bed, not a trace of mistery and unknown in your other half, no surprise - you can take "love" as an indicator for your marriage?
(It's a serious question).

..lol, I thankfully abstain from such events.

Not necessarily....

Kids come in your bed only if you authorise them, and fart and burp at each other faces is a choice as well, which i personnally don t do, as i consider it as a kill love, certainly not intimacy. It doesn t cost that much to keep on surprise or please each other, it s a choice

I thought I might as well explain my groan, because as a gentleman member you deserve it .

Seriously, I fail to understand why you keep provoking and derailing lostinboard even in page 3. I am arguably the biggest tightwad on the forum, even I would say 700chuff for a week for a couple is cheap. And he was hardly bragging, just stating what people with kids can worry about.

Coming back to topic, I disagree with most people here though, about the effect of kids and strained finances on marriage. I have lived a fairly stylish albeit a bit phony life (thanks to our pompous ex-colonial masters btw ) as a defence officer, then lived close to penury as a research student, by which time the kid was in school, 350 chf per month to take care of ALL costs for a family of three . Which was tight even in the third world standards.

I think lack of money had the opposite effect to what people are suggesting here: we simply didn't have the money to argue over multiple ways of blowing it. We just had decent food, went out for walks together, and came back and watched stuff on TV. I think that was the best times I have had in 10+ years of marriage.

In short, I agree kids cost money, but their benefits usually far outweigh the costs. The more money you have, the more ideas and opportunities for conflict.

Caveat: just thinking aloud; can't say I have crystal clear thoughts on such profound matters.

I think friendship and respect over take the passion and romance - I think love is always there - but I think it takes on a different roll.

I haven't got kids so can't comment on how that impacts marriages but after being with my husband for 9 years married for almost 6 I can say that the friendship builds and builds every day to become something far more wonderful than the initial passion we felt in the early days. If anything i feel our marriage is becoming stronger each passing year - however I do wonder about the introduction of kids into our relationship and how that may impact things. At the moment we give all to each other we make each other happy and we exist for each other - throw kids into the equation then I feel we will give all to our kids and exist for our kids therefore we may end up neglecting ourselves and our relationship - I can 100% see how kids can affect a marriage yet day after day people all over the world enter into marriage to have kids - so maybe our natural way in life is to be a partnership for kids and kids only - to think about our own happiness in a marriage is maybe seen as a modern selfish thought in today's society - hence the modern high divorce rate?

People over the years have become re programmed to seek happiness and pleasure for themselves - in bygone years people had a lot less - existed more to procreate and rear children in a stable family unit.

To my mind this thread is primarily "Western" biased, where money and Keeping up with the Jones's is a concern to many couples (or at least one half of the couple).

In these instances having not enough money for 3 fancy holidays a year, private school for children, nanny, flat in London, Paris and Milan, etc. is a cause of unhappiness and thus marital discord.

(OK, maybe I overdid it on the financial "needs", but you know what I mean.)

PS: I don't understand the groan based on your explanation - seems to me like you were saying the same thing, unless you were groaning for the derail...

Why people want to have kids? In old days, parents usually stay together, no matter how happy/unhappy they were, they tried.

Nowdays, so many seperated families... so i never quite understand why people, espeically women want to have kids?