Because 50% which fails means 50% which doesn t and there is always hope we ll be on the good side. Some women absolutely want kids even if single, not sure why though

....he's just bitter because he didn't get to meet me during Drinks Night last Friday.

Again looking back to bygone years people had children and large families for survival. Children helped keep and feed the family and then look after you in old age.

There is less of a need these days especially to have large families as we don't need to send our kids out to work to put food on the table, so again modern way of thinking and having kids is more for selfish reasons not for necessity. But people still get old and having children to look out for you in old age must be a great relief. Being old and without children plays on my mind a lot - I worry about ending up old and alone with no off spring to care about my welfare - I think this is a huge driving force on having kids - but I think I have veered a bit off topic here

..and from the 50% who didn't get divorced 30% are jsut riding it out for various reasons.

This is a terrible reason...plus an illusion because where as in Africa for example eldest are respected, in western countries, we put them in institutions because we don t like the old age and what it reflects and brings. Most of old people wait for the once a year visit from their children whom they cleaned butt and supported all life

I understand your reasoning, but cant fully agree with you. Today, who ( among us) is taking care of our old parents? I see more often, grandparents are helping out the young couples, baby sitting the 3rd generations, cooking, or washing etc.

So still dont quite understand. Dont tell me the reason is that human society needs to be carried on...

whether it is a terrible reason or not it is a fact. And it may happen on occasions as you say but I think for the most children look out for the parents whether it is a bind to them or not - if you are a decent person then duty would have that you make sure your parents are looked after

If your kids didn't look after you when you were old then you did a sh!t job bringing them up

At the risk of sounding selfish (you see, the old prejudices ...), I am happy with my personal situation, which is that I inherited two adult children. Certainly from what I have read above, it appears that the most stressful time for married couples is when their children are young.

Are you sure that's the experience of 'most' old people in western Europe?

I think the evidence is against you on that one.

But even if you get married, you've only halved the chances of dying alone.

After nearly 20 years of marriage, our relationship is stronger and deeper than it has ever been. We find plenty of delight and mystery in this "other" we're sharing our lives with. ( It's a cliché, but true - you think you know someone after twenty years and you find you've barely scratched the surface ).

That's not to say that either of us (especially me) are utterly perfect.

I have watched my parents looking after their parents in their time of need and when it comes to my parents time to be looked after I will step up to the mark because I love them

Because having kids brings a lot of joy - I don't care what people say in surveys. I know that having kids has brought joy to my life. Thinking about the data posted earlier about stress and children, how many here have good jobs without stress? Stress doesn't necessarily mean unfulfiled.

Bad bad Mod (but we knew that already )

Doing a bit more surfing came across this: http://www.quickie-divorce.com/?gcli...FQmRZgod-Cvicw

Sad. And just highlights my point that it is too easy to get out of it, so people don't spend time thinking about what marriage means.

And you've got the data to prove that, or is that just from your jaded, miserable fantasy land? Maybe it's just the people you hang around with are a sorry mob?

Btw, i have a friend, she is 42 now, getting desperate to have kid with her bf. I heard from other friends, all day long, the main topic for her is to discuss how she get pregant. I knew her so well, also her bf. both are two extremely egocentric, selfish people. I really dont think that their relationship/ marriage will do well once they have the kid I told her this, now she is angry with me, hehe

oh, some guys also want to have kids, espeically in Asia, just to carry their genes, ( boys usaully in this case i think.) i strongly dislike such thoughts...

Well, the obscenely rich do tend towards melancholy, it's true...

Isn't that how it used to be anyway? I.e. the old folks looking after the babies in family units, while the "workers" worked?

Having a stressful ( or non-stresful) job , usually if u work hard, u get rewarded, not necessary money wise.

Having a stressful life with kids... what happens at end, we dont know, its not really in our hand. as i said, we ( people around me, including me) are not really rewarding our parents now. And sadly enough, lets say, most parents are not that happy with their kids anyway, we never do good enough to meet their requirement. E.g. we did nto marry on time and did not have kids at the right age

what i want to say, is having kids, seems also contribut heavily to the couples' seperation, according to previous posts.

...let's jsut say that it is a good guesstimate. I hang around EF people...maybe that has something to do with it.

my mum has a fridge magnet and it says 'Grandchildren are gods reward for being a parent'

Having children I would assume will bring a life time of pleasure

I recently attended my grans 90th birthday and in the room she had 5 children, 11 grandchildren, 5 great grand children and one great great grand child. I have never seen her so proud and never felt so proud to see what she had created, a large room full of family all there because of her and for her - must have been a nice feeling eh?

Grand-children are your revenge on your own children. I'm looking forward to being a granddad. When the child turns green or smelly, I can give him back to his parents. All the fun, none of the hard work!