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Old 20.04.2015, 15:22
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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New? Where have you been?
You're not wrong.
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  #302  
Old 20.04.2015, 15:26
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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From PubMed

"The Editor and Publisher regretfully retract the article [1] as there were undeclared competing interests on the part of the author which compromised the peer review process. Furthermore, post-publication peer review raised concerns about the validity of the methods and statistical analysis, therefore the Editors no longer have confidence in the soundness of the findings. We apologise to all affected parties for the inconvenience caused."
Whoa, it gets even better. From the end of the retracted paper:

Competing interests: Dr. Hooker has been involved in vaccine/biologic litigation.

Funding information: Funding for this research was provided for by a grant from Focus Autism, Inc. Data for case and control children were provided in a de-identified form by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Focus Autism has been rebranded Focus for Health, btw.

I'm not sure how this even got accepted, unless these statements were added after the publication (to the retracted version)!
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  #303  
Old 20.04.2015, 15:27
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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"Let us be thankful for the fools. But for them the rest of us could not succeed."- Mark Twain

"Truthful words stand the test of time, but lies are soon exposed."
I wanted to comment on the quotes, too. Do you realise, Uno'sGarden, what the authors of these quotes are saying?

Mark Twain's quote says that it's the fools that make the rest of us look good. How does that embellish the reputations or scientific output of fools (for fools, liars are) such as Wakefield et al.?

The second quote is from the Bible, Proverbs 12:19. Its meaning is clear and it applies beautifully in the cases of Wakefield and Hooker: their publications, full of lies, stood for a short time only until their lies were exposed and their papers retracted.


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Old 20.04.2015, 15:49
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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... Once again, the big players are there to make sure that the public remain confused and lied to.
...
"Truthful words stand the test of time, but lies are soon exposed."
...said a person who wouldn't know truth from lie if it bit them on the bum.
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  #305  
Old 20.04.2015, 15:58
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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Whoa, it gets even better. From the end of the retracted paper:

Competing interests: Dr. Hooker has been involved in vaccine/biologic litigation.

Funding information: Funding for this research was provided for by a grant from Focus Autism, Inc. Data for case and control children were provided in a de-identified form by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Focus Autism has been rebranded Focus for Health, btw.

I'm not sure how this even got accepted, unless these statements were added after the publication (to the retracted version)!
Interesting chap is Hooker; he is actually a biochemical engineer, so not a pediatrician, immunologist or neurologist and is currently a professor at Simpson University, a christian liberal arts college.

Focus Autism/Focus for Health is a notorious anti-vaccine organisation. So no conflict of interest there then, no siree.
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  #306  
Old 22.04.2015, 18:17
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

Yet another large-scale study debunking the MMR Autism link. It's such a shame it is felt necessary to waste resources on this myth, when they could be used elsewhere.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25898051
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Old 23.04.2015, 11:18
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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I love your use of inappropriate quotes. By "Fools", I assume you are referring to those hang on every word uttered by the likes of Dr. Oz, Foodbabe, Joseph Mercola, Jon Roulac and Natural News etc?
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I wanted to comment on the quotes, too. Do you realise, Uno'sGarden, what the authors of these quotes are saying?

Mark Twain's quote says that it's the fools that make the rest of us look good. How does that embellish the reputations or scientific output of fools (for fools, liars are) such as Wakefield et al.?

The second quote is from the Bible, Proverbs 12:19. Its meaning is clear and it applies beautifully in the cases of Wakefield and Hooker: their publications, full of lies, stood for a short time only until their lies were exposed and their papers retracted.


Critical thinking. It's a valuable asset. Use it well.
It is all a matter of perspective, isn't it? Which side of the fence are you on? From my side, the fools are the likes of Paul Offit and those that support his BS. And if you believe his garbage, then it is only a matter of time that natural selection will take its course. The vaccine damaged will not go onto reproduce, will they? With all the talk about reducing the world's population, well, I stand with the above quote from Mark Twain.


"For the love of money is the root of all evil" (1st Timothy 6:10).
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  #308  
Old 23.04.2015, 11:21
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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Interesting chap is Hooker; he is actually a biochemical engineer, so not a pediatrician, immunologist or neurologist and is currently a professor at Simpson University, a christian liberal arts college.

Focus Autism/Focus for Health is a notorious anti-vaccine organisation. So no conflict of interest there then, no siree.

You cannot see anything wrong with vaccines. I can't help but wonder your conflict of interest. Do you have any?
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Old 23.04.2015, 11:26
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

what's wrong with vaccines, Uno?
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Old 23.04.2015, 11:40
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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Yet another large-scale study debunking the MMR Autism link. It's such a shame it is felt necessary to waste resources on this myth, when they could be used elsewhere.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25898051
I will read this paper and get back to you.

However, just quickly checking to see who funded the study:


Conflict of Interest Disclosures: All authors have completed and submitted the ICMJE Form for Disclosure of Potential Conflicts of Interest. Dr Jain, Ms Marshall, and Mr Kelly report being employees of The Lewin Group. Ms Buikema and Dr Bancroft are employees of Optum. Optum is a wholly owned subsidiary of UnitedHealth Group and The Lewin Group is an Optum company. The Lewin Group operates with editorial independence. No other disclosures are reported.

The Lewin group is a subsidiary of UniteHealth Group. The UnitedHealth group was a subsidiary of Diversified pharmaceutical services until it was sold for over 2 billion dollars. Diversified pharmaceutical services was sold to Glaxo smithKline in 1994.

I am not surprised at the outcome of this study.
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Old 23.04.2015, 11:44
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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Conflict of Interest Disclosures: All authors have completed and submitted the ICMJE Form for Disclosure of Potential Conflicts of Interest. Dr Jain, Ms Marshall, and Mr Kelly report being employees of The Lewin Group. Ms Buikema and Dr Bancroft are employees of Optum. Optum is a wholly owned subsidiary of UnitedHealth Group and The Lewin Group is an Optum company. The Lewin Group operates with editorial independence. No other disclosures are reported.
I find their shirts protect me from Chemtrails.
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Old 23.04.2015, 11:45
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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You cannot see anything wrong with vaccines. I can't help but wonder your conflict of interest. Do you have any?
Aha, I see you've learnt the shill gambit.
FYI part of my post-doc research focused on a possible genetic aetiology of autistic-like behaviour in mice (see the publication here), and then I worked in vaccine development for a small vaccine manufacturer, though I left that company 5 years ago. I'm fairly certain my knowledge of a) autism and b) vaccine development and safety outstrips yours by quite a considerable margin.
Where do you get your information, University of Google, I presume?
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Old 23.04.2015, 11:49
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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Aha, I see you've learnt the shill gambit I see.
FYI part of my post-doc research focused on a possible genetic aetiology of autistic-like behaviour in mice (see the publication here), and then I worked in vaccine development for a small vaccine manufacturer, though I left that company 5 years ago. I'm fairly certain my knowledge of a) autism and b) vaccine development outstrips yours by quite a considerable margin.
Where do you get your information, University of Google, I presume?
Thanks Paddy, I learned something new today "shill gambit"
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Old 23.04.2015, 11:53
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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Thanks Paddy, I learned something new today "shill gambit"
You're welcome.

When all logical discourse fails, scream SHILL! and CONSPIRACY! Pretty much modus operandi for anti-vaxxers.
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Old 23.04.2015, 11:56
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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The vaccine damaged will not go onto reproduce, will they?
Neither will those who die of vaccine-preventable diseases, and rest-assured there will be a hell of a lot more of them than "vaccine-injured". Unfortunately for the rest of us, anti-vaxxers infecting themselves out of the gene pool could have disastrous consequences on everyone else, especially the vulnerable.
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Old 23.04.2015, 12:04
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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FYI part of my post-doc research focused on a possible genetic aetiology of autistic-like behaviour in mice (see the publication here), and then I worked in vaccine development for a small vaccine manufacturer, though I left that company 5 years ago. I'm fairly certain my knowledge of a) autism and b) vaccine development and safety outstrips yours by quite a considerable margin.
Sorry, Paddy, but you have to realise that in no way does that qualify you to speak on the subjects, because it's clear from your background that you're actually a part of the global conspiracy to try and hide the 'truth' from us.

A real "heads I win, tails you lose" situation according to the nutjobs. Anyone remotely informed is disqualified on the grounds of vested interests, especially when they've declared them in advance; anyone on the other side is not a part of the conspiracy so everything they say must be true.
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Old 23.04.2015, 12:14
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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And if you believe his garbage, then it is only a matter of time that natural selection will take its course. The vaccine damaged will not go onto reproduce, will they?
Maybe they won't ( the small numbers of them that exist) but all the undamaged vaccinated ones will and they are the vast majority of the population.
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Old 23.04.2015, 12:34
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

Whilst we're on the subject of autism, has anyone heard of these nutjob child abusers; http://cdautism.org/?
They beleive that administering diluted industrial bleach (which they call Miracle Mineral Solution, MMS), either by enema or orally, cures autism. There are horrific anecdotes of abused children writhing in agony due to this "treatment". They believe in the principle that autism is caused by "ropeworm" parasites and MMS will kill these worms. Followers have even posted poictures of these "worms", which appear to be nothing more than intestinal mucosa. It really is quite sickening.
Unsurprisingly, Kerri Rivera, who runs this cult, will be sharing a platform with none other than the aforementioned Dr. Hooker at a forthcoming autism "conference"; essentially a gathering of woo-mongers, naturopaths, anti-vaxxers and homeopathists, sponsored by...Focus for Health.

In other news, a vehement Australian anti-vaxxer organisation recently published a meme comparing vaccination with rape. These people have no morals and are the absolute scum of the earth.
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Old 23.04.2015, 12:57
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

For anyone that's played GTA 5, the whole in-game world is basically an outrageously exaggerated Americana environment. And there are radio stations with awesome music and hilarious commercials and talk shows. Them too exaggerated to comical proportions.

The worrying thing is that you listen to people in the game, and you listen or read people in real f-ing life, and in disturbingly many occasions you can't distinguish between them...


And since we're doing quotes, Gandhi said that humanity is an ocean and faith should not be lost because of drops. While he was probably referring to "bad" people, I think that abusing quotes is kind of this thread's last pages exercise so I'm having at it and I will say that I do lose whatever faith in humanity I have left due to the abundance of stupidity, scientific illiteracy, and straight on denial of a disturbing amount of people among us.

Beggars belief...





PS Plot twist: Uno will read this and think I agree with them (him/her?)
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Old 23.04.2015, 14:06
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

And yet another quote that may offer some hope...

"Your bait of falsehood takes this carp of truth,
And thus do we of wisdom and of reach,
With windlasses and with assays of bias,
By indirections find directions out."
-----Wm. Shakespeare

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