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  #321  
Old 23.04.2015, 15:15
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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Whilst we're on the subject of autism, has anyone heard of these nutjob child abusers; http://cdautism.org/?
They beleive that administering diluted industrial bleach (which they call Miracle Mineral Solution, MMS), either by enema or orally, cures autism. ...
Yes, and I know a lady in the UK with an autistic son whose "nutritionist" recommended she treat the kid with it.

In theological terms, the whole anti-vaxxer thing is truly satanic - what's evil (MMS, letting kids catch life-threatening disease) is pronounced good, and what's good (saving many many thousands of lives) is pronounced evil. What damages kids (not vaccinating them) is promoted, what protects them is howled against. Lies are pronounced truth and the truth is pronounced lies.

Nothing new under the sun. The irrational hating fear-mongering beast lurks just below the skin.
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  #322  
Old 01.07.2015, 08:37
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

California has legislated mandatory vaccinations for school students. Truly excellent news which will save lives and improve the health of thousands, if not millions of students and people with whom they come into contact.

It's great to see enlightened action, based on proven science, in the USA.
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  #323  
Old 01.07.2015, 10:29
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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California has legislated mandatory vaccinations for school students. Truly excellent news which will save lives and improve the health of thousands, if not millions of students and people with whom they come into contact.

It's great to see enlightened action, based on proven science, in the USA.
Yup, excellent news indeed. Maybe this is the start of the end of the hateful, malicious, dangerous anti-vaccine lobby.
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  #324  
Old 01.07.2015, 23:23
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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Because there is evidence that there are dangers from vaccinations, that vaccines do not protect, but instead harm the person by lowering his immunity and have a general damaging effect on a persons overall health.
False. Vaccines are proven to save millions of lives.

If you have evidence of the contrary, show it, but it must be peer-reviewed scientific studies, not a random page on the internet.
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  #325  
Old 01.07.2015, 23:27
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

I found this really interesting...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rzxr9FeZf1g
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  #326  
Old 02.07.2015, 04:35
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

Thanks for the drive-by groan, JanerMacP. Have we found a new, previously unidentified species of anti-vax nutter? I hadn't marked you down as a confirmed anti-scientist before.

Last edited by 22 yards; 02.07.2015 at 11:35.
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  #327  
Old 02.07.2015, 07:13
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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Thanks for the drive-in groan, JanerMacP. Have we found a new, previously unidentified species of anti-vax nutter? I hadn't marked you down as a confirmed anti-scientist before.
Could be a scroll-groan.
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  #328  
Old 02.07.2015, 08:21
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

http://cdautism.org/chlorine-dioxide-vs-chlorine don't trust their own products!

CD Autism have the following disclaimer at the bottom of their chlorine dioxide statement,

Medical disclaimer: The information presented on this website is not intended or implied to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. All content, including text, graphics, images and information, contained on or available through this website is for general information purposes only. Kerri Rivera, Autismo2 and affiliates make no representation and assume no responsibility, legal or otherwise, for the accuracy of information contained on or available through this website, and such information is subject to change without notice. You are encouraged to confirm any information obtained from or through this website with other sources, and review all information regarding any medical condition or treatment with your physician. You are ultimately responsible for your own choices surrounding your health and the health of your children.
Important note: CD Autism & Autismo2 do not receive any money from the sales of MMS, nor are they retailers of MMS or any other supplements or products mentioned on this site.
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When facing these anti vaccination people one has to ask them:
How many people died from preventable diseases in the last century?
How many people died after taking vaccinations in the last century?
.

Last edited by Sbrinz; 02.07.2015 at 08:36.
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  #329  
Old 02.07.2015, 08:40
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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How many people died after taking vaccinations in the last century?
.
All of them.
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  #330  
Old 02.07.2015, 08:43
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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All of them.
Not yet.
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  #331  
Old 02.07.2015, 09:00
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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Thanks for the drive-in groan, JanerMacP. Have we found a new, previously unidentified species of anti-vax nutter? I hadn't marked you down as a confirmed anti-scientist before.
Is my groan bugging you? Have you been following what is happening with SB277 or are you just reposting a link that came up in one of your news feeds? This issue behind this bill goes way beyond parents choosing to vaccinate or not, it's about informed consent (the backbone of medical ethics) and parental control. When you no longer have a say on what the government mandates healthwise something is very very wrong.

I'm not an anti-vax nutter as you call me, I have one child who is and one who isn't because she can't be. I'm pro choice - families should be able to do what is best for them, make their own choices and not have them dictated. Vaccines aren't one size fits all, most parents who are against them have children who were injured. Of course you have some extremists but it works both ways. There are many doctors who are opposed to this bill, as it seems so we're many government officials when you look at the numbers. It's a lobbyist money game which has now denied many children the right to go to school, a legal right in the state of California. A child infected with HepB can go to school but a child who wasn't vaccinated can't? Does that really make sense?

Cognitive dissonance works both ways.

Edit: I am definitely not anti-science, and I don't know why threads like this need to end up with insults and mudslinging, it's ridiculous. Just have a conversation without it getting ugly for once. I do believe that vaccines have a place in society and they probably have helped a large part of the population, but obviously there is something happening with them when the U.S. Government is paying out $3 billion in compensation for vaccine injuries. And pharmaceutical companies are protected against vaccine lawsuits because they would lose too much money and it would interfere with a larger federal health plan. Parents shouldn't ignore this - they should implore pharma companies to make better vaccines. Compare vaccinated and non-vaccinated children. Test the vaccines as they are given in the schedule. When there is a risk there should be a choice
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  #332  
Old 02.07.2015, 09:03
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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.....most parents who are against them have children who were injured......
I'd love to see you substantiate that claim.
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  #333  
Old 02.07.2015, 09:13
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

Janer, I don't think you have any idea about the huge number of processes that take place before a vaccine is marketed. Why not listen to the government and the pharmaceutical companies, they might know more about the subject than their critics.
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  #334  
Old 02.07.2015, 09:24
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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How many people died after taking vaccinations in the last century?
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All of them.
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Not yet.
Quite. The vast majority of us on here were vaccinated in the last century and we're not dead yet although based on the level of posting on here sometimes I do wonder.

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How many people died from preventable diseases in the last century?
A lot.
After hearing my mum's account of her time in the isolation hospital suffering from diphtheria as a child and my gran's stories of having to look in the local paper to check the list of patients who'd died ( or survived I can't remember which exactly)) by their patient numbers ( not name) to see if she was still there I think that we have a lot to thank vaccines for.
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  #335  
Old 02.07.2015, 09:32
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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I'm pro choice - families should be able to do what is best for them, make their own choices and not have them dictated.
Generally speaking yes but certainly not always. There are clearly occasions where the needs of society as a whole comfortably outweigh the choices of any individual. Vaccination is one of those.
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  #336  
Old 02.07.2015, 10:12
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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Why not listen to the government and the pharmaceutical companies, they might know more about the subject than their critics.
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There are clearly occasions where the needs of society as a whole comfortably outweigh the choices of any individual.

lol


I'm pro-vax, but these arguments are terrifying!
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  #337  
Old 02.07.2015, 10:21
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

As I understand it, SB227 isn't forcing vaccines on anyone; it just means you can't enroll your child into daycare or school unless their vaccine schedule is up to date.
Unfortunately this will result in a small minority of homeschooled, poorly educated children whose beliefs and principles are handed down to them by gullible pseudoscience-believing parents, who get their information from Ken Ham, Natural News, Joseph Mercola, Sheri Tenpethy and FoodBabe.
A question for any opponent of SB227; do you use a car-seat as mandated under California law? Are you aware that there are inherent risks of car seats themselves and that car seats only prevent ~2/3 of serious injuries?


I hate this "I'm parent, I know what's best for my child" mantra. Actually, you don't; healthcare professionals and scientists know what's best for your child. They've spent their careers developing safe and effective vaccines and medications; just because you squirted out a sprog, doesn't make you an instant expert.
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  #338  
Old 02.07.2015, 10:31
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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lol


I'm pro-vax, but these arguments are terrifying!
Really? OK, let's look at the concept with an extreme example. I'm an ISIS sympathiser* and feel my family is threatened because of recent events and the risk of retaliation. I need an AK47 to protect my family. Should I be allowed to have one? Or do the needs of society take precidence?


I realise this is an extreme example (and also realise the answer to the question in the USA is a lunatic one) but vaccination does go in this direction.


Particular as there are those for whom vaccinations are contra-indicated and who often most need the benefit of herd immunity.






*I'm not btw
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  #339  
Old 02.07.2015, 10:42
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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All of them.
Hardly all, as I'm not dead yet!



Tom
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  #340  
Old 03.07.2015, 10:58
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

The first death from measles in the US in 12 years. This death was was entirely preventable through vaccination of the population. This tragic event is exactly what the mandatory vaccination program is aiming to eradicate.
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