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  #41  
Old 06.06.2007, 22:01
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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Just imagine you got your kids vaccinated and someone started presenting solid evidence on how bad they are, would you read it? Probably not, I mean what if you are wrong, how could yo ulive for the rest of your life. Simply put it's fear.
I'm actually in this boat! My wife is a Health Visitor, and she had some qualms about giving the kids MMR. This was many years ago, and though I was personally opposed to drugs, I was not aware of any real dangers.

I looked into it - at the official sites, and from what I read it seemed that the risks were minimal. So we let them give the kids the injections.

If I knew then what I know now, I would have never have allowed it. All I can do now is ensure that they eat, drink and live a healthy life and the body will over come the effects of the poisons.

In fairness, vaccinations by themselves don't do that much damage, it is the combination with junk foods, soft drinks, pollution and so on that do the real damage to ones health.
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  #42  
Old 05.09.2007, 17:08
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MMR or three seperate jabs

Does anyone know if there is an easily available alternative to MMR available in the Zurich area.

In England you can get the three vaccinations separately but need to go to a private clinic in London for it, which I will probably do if I'm still here.

There are different reasons for wanting to avid the combined vaccination – one of which is that it is made using egg and my daughter is allergic to egg. Although they say it shouldn't produce a reaction I will have to go to a hospital to get her the jabs as the local nurse will not perform it on her. (Having spent a few hours down at A&E after we gave her some milk I don't want her to go through that again)

P.S. I don't mind about paying to go to a private clinic – but London is just far enough away for the trip to be annoying with a little kid.
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  #43  
Old 05.09.2007, 17:55
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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Assuming that the facts in the article are correct, then this applies only to measles. However, I question if so many kids actually die from measles?

How do you know that it's not the malnutrition, the dirty water and the lack of basic hygiene?
Kids don't die of measles. Adults do if they have not had the injection.
It's the same with many childhood diseases - shitty for kids but downright dangerous for adults...
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  #44  
Old 05.09.2007, 18:28
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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Assuming that the facts in the article are correct, then this applies only to measles. However, I question if so many kids actually die from measles?

How do you know that it's not the malnutrition, the dirty water and the lack of basic hygiene?
Unfortunately, yes a lot of children ,mostly from underdeveloped and developing countries,die from the complication of measles....
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  #45  
Old 05.09.2007, 18:30
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Re: MMR or three seperate jabs

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Does anyone know if there is an easily available alternative to MMR available in the Zurich area. In England you can get the three vaccinations separately but need to go to a private clinic in London for it, which I will probably do if I'm still here.There are different reasons for wanting to avid the combined vaccination – one of which is that it is made using egg and my daughter is allergic to egg. Although they say it shouldn't produce a reaction I will have to go to a hospital to get her the jabs as the local nurse will not perform it on her. (Having spent a few hours down at A&E after we gave her some milk I don't want her to go through that again)P.S. I don't mind about paying to go to a private clinic – but London is just far enough away for the trip to be annoying with a little kid.
Wikipedia reference-linkMMR_vaccine isn't made "with" egg. The measles and mumps viruses are produced in tissue cultures that originate from chicken embryos. So I think a milk/egg allergic reaction can be excluded.

I suggest to discuss the matter with your pediatrician, he can inform you of any risks and alternatives. MMR vaccines have been around for half a century and are well studied.

Last edited by Nathu; 05.09.2007 at 19:03.
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  #46  
Old 05.09.2007, 18:52
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/320/7239/929

The part relevant to my daughter is:
'The only children who need to be vaccinated in hospital are those with an allergy to eggs in whom previous exposure led to cardiorespiratory reactions and those with coexisting active, chronic asthma'

and

'The 1996 edition of Immunisation Against Infectious Disease states that "over 99% of children who are allergic to eggs can safely receive MMR vaccine. '

I am not prepared to risk her being the 1% if there is an alternative.

Medicine and science tends to work on percentages and economics: if 1% of the x% who are allergic to eggs suffer a reaction to an immunisation which will in general safeguard the population then they will recommend its usage. The statictics which are minimal in the population are a different matter when you are the parent and tht small percentage of the popultion is the daughter you love and cherish.

I don't wish to expose her to anything which will cause her serious harm and so will have to talk over alternatives - you are right though the single mesales vacine is made from the same source as MMR (chicken embryos). So it looks like we will have to go to hospital for that vacination and hope she is one of the 99%.
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  #47  
Old 05.09.2007, 19:19
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

Hmm complicated stuff, sorry for my assumption. On the bright side we know of risks that are just 1% small. I hated mumps when I was infected (as a child), you and the kid have my respect if you decide to get the vaccination under the hospital's surveilance!
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  #48  
Old 05.09.2007, 21:46
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Re: MMR or three seperate jabs

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Does anyone know if there is an easily available alternative to MMR available in the Zurich area.
Just ask your Paediatrician. Our oldest son was due his MMR at the hight of the scare back in the UK & being paranoid first time parents we asked our Pead about alternatives. She was happy to give the three jabs instead of one.
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  #49  
Old 05.09.2007, 22:04
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

Thank-you Lou,

I currently live in the UK and the doctor would not be happy to give 3 seperate jabs - you have to go to a private clinic to get this done and the nearest to us is in London.

I am applying for jobs in Zurich at the moment (have a phone interview tomorrow) and so could be there by the time we need to get her vacinated. It sounds like they have a more open minded approach to vacination there than they do here. If people don't want MMR the 3 jabs is not offered or recommened - hence the number of people who do not get vacinated at all.
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  #50  
Old 06.09.2007, 13:50
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

When we were looking for a doctor for the kids after moving here our doctor said he would only take patients that have been vaccinated and will continue to be vaccinated in the future. Guess that makes clear which side I'm on
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  #51  
Old 15.09.2007, 22:32
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

Ok, I looked up how deadly measles is for adults, out of interest, since kids one day become adults and I had them when I was 14 and it was already a serious nightmare at that age.

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Two to three people out of 1,000 who get measles die from the disease. It is spread through the air, and there is no specific treatment for the illness, so prevention is critical.
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  #52  
Old 17.09.2007, 05:11
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

To the poster who asked about individual shots:

I took my child to the local doctor in Canton Schaffhausen and reuqested a measles jab. (I couldn't guarantee that her original single shot measles was Ok - the doc was sent down.)

He ordered it and gave it to my child. FIne, no problems and what really made my blood boil, was that the cost was 50CHF for the vaccine. In the UK several years earlier I'd had to pay way more than that.

Anyway, no issue and just had it.

HTH
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  #53  
Old 01.10.2007, 17:27
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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Things are chaning slowly, people are starting to ask more questions. 9/11 is a good example, 50% of americans now believe it was an inside job, however in 2001 this was not the case.
Um... where the heck did you get that number?? I don't know anyone in the US that believes that.

If you're even going to think about considering that conspiracy theory, just think about how many people in govt would've had to be in on it... and how hard a secret that would've been to keep (especially with how wonderfully competent the present legislature is). Seriously, dude.

(Sorry, I know that was way off topic, but I just had to respond)
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  #54  
Old 04.03.2008, 11:53
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

Sorry to bring up this thread again but there are some unpleasant news in this matter.

The vaccination rate for herd immunity (95% for measles) hasn't been met for quite some time in Switzerland and we now have a measles epidemy in some parts of the country that started 16 months ago. Last year, canton Lucerne was mainly affected, but 2008 other cantons took the lead: Basel-Landschaft (164 infections til mid February), Basel-Stadt (49 infections), Solothurn (35), Aargau (21), Glarus (20), Graubünden (19).

Some other statistics:
Infections 2007: 1081
Infections 2008 (til mid-Feb): 358
Hospitalisations (whole epidemy): 86
- thereof pneumonias: 52
- thereof meningitis: 6
- thereof fatalities: 0

(Sources: 1, 2, 3, 4)

The vaccination rate in Switzerland is 85%. The situation is so bad that the country starts re-infecting other regions like in the San Diego outbreak:

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The outbreak – San Diego County's first since 1991 – began in Switzerland and has spanned about half the globe. (...) The outbreak began when a 7-year-old returned from a family vacation in Switzerland on Jan. 15 infected with measles. More than 400 cases of measles occur in Switzerland each year, about triple the total in the United States.
Finland even has gotten rid of measles completely thanks to disciplinated vaccinating.

I'm still of the opinion that not vaccinating is an unsolidaric act against society, especially the small fraction of people who aren't immune despite having been vaccinated, and these at risk who can't be vaccinated like children with leukaemia.

To counter the deplorable situation the administration has begun an information campaign. Schools of several cantons now send kids home if a family member has measles. The administration also advises all fans who want to visit the country for Euro 08 to get vaccinated which I find really embarrassing.


In the shadow of measles, the two less contagious diseases prevented by the vaccination in question go round. Rubella usually is less dangerous but an undetected infection of a pregnant woman has recently led to the birth of a deformed baby (Source: NZZ am Sonntag).
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  #55  
Old 04.03.2008, 12:00
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

This is all quite shocking! I am bringing my 9 month old over in May and I will be sure to give her all her shots!!
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  #56  
Old 04.03.2008, 13:07
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

My 2 have had all there shots upto date i do not want to risk there health. We have also had our jabs against the ticks.

Last edited by Sutter; 04.03.2008 at 14:04.
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Old 04.03.2008, 13:26
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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My 2 have had all there shots upto date i do not want to risk there health. We have also had our jabs against the tics.
Tics? As in the little creepy buggers?
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Old 04.03.2008, 13:32
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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Tics? As in the little creepy buggers?
The ones that bury insided your head and can kill you. My husband parents live next door to a man, and he had a tick in his head and did not know until it was to late he aged within a few days he looks about 90years old but he is only in his 30s bloody nasty things.

Last edited by Sutter; 04.03.2008 at 14:03.
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Old 04.03.2008, 13:56
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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The ones that bury insided your head and can kill you. My husband parents live next door to a man, and he had a tic in his head and did not know until it was to late he aged within a few days he looks about 90years old but he is only in his 30s bloody nasty things.
Hi Sutter,

You might want to edit your posts.

Tics are involuntary twitches that may involve any voluntary muscle groups. Ticks are arachnids like scorpions, spiders and mites.

Cheers.
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Old 04.03.2008, 13:59
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

For our little fella I just let his doctor guide me on what he should be vaccinated against. He's the doctor, neither my husband nor I are medically trained so it makes sense to us to defer to his knowledge.

So far, he's had most of what is due to him and he's a healthy, bouncy little bruiser.

My parents had me vaccinated against the real nasties but I caught chicken pox, measles and, I think, mumps, etc. when I was a child. Unpleasant illnesses but after being spotty/scratchy/puffy for a week or two I got over it. (Except chicken pox - I managed to get that again, lucky me!)

I wouldn't have fancied my chances as much with polio or meningitis!

Like someone said on an earlier post; to turn down vaccinations would sound absurd to a parent of a child in a third world country whose baby is dying of something easily treatable.
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