Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Family matters/health
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old 05.03.2008, 12:26
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Brisbane, QLD, Oz
Posts: 610
Groaned at 155 Times in 110 Posts
Thanked 318 Times in 211 Posts
drsmithy has earned some respectdrsmithy has earned some respect
Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

Quote:
View Post
Maybe Australian ticks are less dangerous than their North American and European cousins.
An Australian animal less dangerous than an overseas equivalent ? Never !
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank drsmithy for this useful post:
  #82  
Old 05.03.2008, 13:56
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Au [ZH]
Posts: 37
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts
JakoberAD has no particular reputation at present
Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

You guys got me all nervouse here. I love to take my kids out to play in the forest and they enjoy touching the goats, dogs, cats, ponies, horses and any animal they see on the way but now I am not so sure this is a good idea. I was waiting for the weather to get better so I can lose the extra pounds I got this winter with all the Raclet and fondue I ate. Imagine if my 19 months old kid gets one tick and I don't see it, specially if it is before his his 3 hour nap? I would never be able to see it or even find it. I heard of a spray that you can buy in the farmacy. Does it work??
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 05.03.2008, 14:22
DNAMan's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 368
Groaned at 8 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 105 Times in 74 Posts
DNAMan has earned some respectDNAMan has earned some respect
Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

Quote:
View Post
One of the many reasons, that vaccinations are avoided or delayed, is due to the mercury compound, thimerosal, which is used as a vaccine preservative. This video shows the toxicity effects of mercury on neuron growth.

The video runs for 5 minutes. Below is an abstract of the research related to the video.

Retrograde degeneration of neurite membrane structural integrity of nerve growth cones following in vitro exposure to mercury.
Membrane And Cellular Biophysics And Biochemistry
Neuroreport. 12(4):733-737, March 26, 2001.
Leong, Christopher C. W.; Syed, Naweed I.; Lorscheider, Fritz L. CA

Abstract:
Inhalation of mercury vapor (Hg0) inhibits binding of GTP to rat brain tubulin, thereby inhibiting tubulin polymerization into microtubules. A similar molecular lesion has also been observed in 80% of brains from patients with Alzheimer disease (AD) compared to age-matched controls. However the precise site and mode of action of Hg ions remain illusive. Therefore, the present study examined whether Hg ions could affect membrane dynamics of neurite growth cone morphology and behavior. Since tubulin is a highly conserved cytoskeletal protein in both vertebrates and invertebrates, we hypothesized that growth cones from animal species could be highly susceptible to Hg ions. To test this possibility, the identified, large Pedal A (PeA) neurons from the central ring ganglia of the snail Lymnaea stagnalis were cultured for 48 h in 2 ml brain conditioned medium (CM). Following neurite outgrowth, metal chloride solution (2 [mu]l) of Hg, Al, Pb, Cd, or Mn (10-7 M) was pressure applied directly onto individual growth cones. Time-lapse images with inverted microscopy were acquired prior to, during, and after the metal ion exposure. We demonstrate that Hg ions markedly disrupted membrane structure and linear growth rates of imaged neurites in 77% of all nerve growth cones. When growth cones were stained with antibodies specific for both tubulin and actin, it was the tubulin/microtubule structure that disintegrated following Hg exposure. Moreover, some denuded neurites were also observed to form neurofibrillary aggregates. In contrast, growth cone exposure to other metal ions did not effect growth cone morphology, nor was their motility rate compromised. To determine the growth suppressive effects of Hg ions on neuronal sprouting, cells were cultured either in the presence or absence of Hg ions. We found that in the presence of Hg ions, neuronal somata failed to sprout, whereas other metalic ions did not effect growth patterns of cultured PeA cells. We conclude that this visual evidence and previous biochemical data strongly implicate Hg as a potential etiological factor in neurodegeneration.

(C) 2001 Lippincott Williams & Wilkins, Inc.
True, thimerosol is a mecury compound BUT it is an organomecurial (natural not manmade) and was used in low concentrations ( 0.0000000125g per 1 liter) in vaccine preps. The concentrations used in the "scientific study" presented are way over any dose one would realistically expect to get exposed to AND represent elemental mecury (Hg) which is far more toxic that organomecurials.

All new vaccine preps have either very reduced amounts of this compound or none at all due to the public fears of its toxicity.

Careful about using "science" to back up arguments if you're not a scientist . Classic example of selective arguments of "fact" to fit the laymans beliefs.
__________________
aaargh... I'm going nucking futs
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 05.03.2008, 14:40
Sutter's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Thurgau
Posts: 5,794
Groaned at 67 Times in 48 Posts
Thanked 2,760 Times in 1,589 Posts
Sutter has a reputation beyond reputeSutter has a reputation beyond reputeSutter has a reputation beyond reputeSutter has a reputation beyond reputeSutter has a reputation beyond reputeSutter has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

Quote:
View Post
You guys got me all nervouse here. I love to take my kids out to play in the forest and they enjoy touching the goats, dogs, cats, ponies, horses and any animal they see on the way but now I am not so sure this is a good idea. I was waiting for the weather to get better so I can lose the extra pounds I got this winter with all the Raclet and fondue I ate. Imagine if my 19 months old kid gets one tick and I don't see it, specially if it is before his his 3 hour nap? I would never be able to see it or even find it. I heard of a spray that you can buy in the farmacy. Does it work??
When you go out to the forest then just make sure you cover your childs head with a good hat, and wrap him up well in this weather thats the best advice i can give you the ticks cannot get through thick clothes i don`t think anyway. Then when you get home have a good look at your childs head the ticks are black so they should be easy to find (i hope so). Never heard of the spray i am going to the Doctors tomorrow i can ask for you.
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 05.03.2008, 17:03
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: N America
Posts: 51
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
misplacedheidi has no particular reputation at present
Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

Spray is Anti-Brummm

Red is very strong and supposed to help against ticks.
Purple is a lotion which is for sensitive skins (kids)

HTH
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 05.03.2008, 17:35
Sutter's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Thurgau
Posts: 5,794
Groaned at 67 Times in 48 Posts
Thanked 2,760 Times in 1,589 Posts
Sutter has a reputation beyond reputeSutter has a reputation beyond reputeSutter has a reputation beyond reputeSutter has a reputation beyond reputeSutter has a reputation beyond reputeSutter has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

Quote:
View Post
Spray is Anti-Brummm

Red is very strong and supposed to help against ticks.
Purple is a lotion which is for sensitive skins (kids)

HTH
Thanks i have Anti-Brummm, and never realised you could use it for the ticks
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 06.03.2008, 19:07
Nathu's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 4,674
Groaned at 18 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,248 Posts
Nathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

Ticks don't crawl under the skin. They just bite so they can suck blood.

Anti-Brumm Forte is one of the best insect repellents here, it works for ticks, too (don't spray it on ticks once they have bitten).

For protection closed shoes and long trousers are effective, because the ticks wait in high grass and close to the soil.

It has already been mentioned that against the second most common tick disease there's a vaccine. The most common (Borreliosis) can only be caught if a tick stays undetected for 12 hours. A common symptom is redness or a red ring around the bite but.
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 01.04.2008, 23:49
Kayser Soze's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 153
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 44 Times in 32 Posts
Kayser Soze has no particular reputation at present
Measles cases in Switzerland / vaccination

Hi there,

My 2 year old son is attending day care (Kinderkrippe). Today when I went to pick him up there was a letter from the Minister of Health informing and warning about the current outburst of Measles in Switzerland:

In my son's Kinderkrippe, in the last 4 months there has been several cases of the following (I am getting the translations from Google):
- Schlarlach (Scarlatine Fever)
- Masern (Measles)
- Ringeröteln (couldn't find this one)
- Windpocken (Chicken Pox)

Anyhow, I remember chatting with my father about this (he is a Doctor), he was shocked and mentioned that some (cant remember which though) of these diseases are almost 'eradicated'.

Not taking his words for granted, I googled around for a while and read that in year 2005 the were 19 cases of Measles in America while 37332 in Europe. Comparing this in proportion of population I would say the difference is very big.

It seems that only 58% of the Swiss Population is vaccined against Measles for example, and is why its spreading so fast, and why there is a concern about it. I commented my findings with a Swiss guy at the office; to my surprise, he explained that vaccionation for several diseases in Switzerland is not typcial, like the case of Measles. When I asked him to elaborate why this? He proudly explained how much Swiss people avoid non-natural medicine ... huh ? I am wondering if this is another kind of 'shower once a week' kind of thing?

Comments?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Kayser Soze for this useful post:
  #89  
Old 02.04.2008, 00:04
Sutter's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Thurgau
Posts: 5,794
Groaned at 67 Times in 48 Posts
Thanked 2,760 Times in 1,589 Posts
Sutter has a reputation beyond reputeSutter has a reputation beyond reputeSutter has a reputation beyond reputeSutter has a reputation beyond reputeSutter has a reputation beyond reputeSutter has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Measles cases in Switzerland / vaccination

My kids have had every vaccination so far as i do not want my kids to be at risk with these illnesses, i do know some swiss families that do not have the vaccinations they prefare natural medicine, because of this 1 little girl nearly died, and in the end she ended up in hospital for a very long time, and she will have to have regular hospital visits in the future. I for one would not like my kids to go to KG, or school with other children that have not had there vaccinations.
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 02.04.2008, 00:05
Dani_SF's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Arlesheim/Basel
Posts: 159
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 49 Times in 30 Posts
Dani_SF has earned some respectDani_SF has earned some respect
Re: Measles cases in Switzerland / vaccination

Quote:
View Post
He proudly explained how much Swiss people avoid non-natural medicine ...
Shower once a week?

Scharlach, Roeteln and Masern are usually not vaccinated against, at least not when I was a kid.

I think he might have meant that if you get any of the above as a child, you're (naturally) vaccinated against any further outbreak. If I remember correctly especially Roeteln is dangerous when falling ill as an adult/when pregnant and doctors check if you have had it as a child.

Chicken pox is being vaccinated IIRC.
Reply With Quote
  #91  
Old 02.04.2008, 08:43
Zug bound's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Meisenberg Zug
Posts: 864
Groaned at 20 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 284 Times in 182 Posts
Zug bound is considered knowledgeableZug bound is considered knowledgeableZug bound is considered knowledgeable
Re: Measles cases in Switzerland / vaccination

Could the ringer thingy be ringworm? I am sure that there are many people who would disagree with me, but our daughter has been vaccinated against everything we could. Birth brought hep b, tetanus, polio, TB and measles, as she got older she followed the Oman and Brit schedules, a move to thailand got her japanese encephalitis and rabies along with hep a. She hasn't shown any adverse reactions to anything - I was wavering with the MMR, but her paeditrician at the time reassured me (correctly as it seems) that the rise in autism didn't have any proven correlation with the introduction of that particular vaccine.
IMHO, if there is a way of stopping a disease, use it. Smallpox has been eradicated by the judicous use of a vaccine. Enough said.
__________________
The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world
Educate a woman, educate a nation
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Zug bound for this useful post:
  #92  
Old 02.04.2008, 09:46
Nev
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Measles cases in Switzerland / vaccination

Vaccination in CH was widely discussed here:
http://www.englishforum.ch/family-ma...ccination.html
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 02.04.2008, 10:02
5AVeci
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Measles cases in Switzerland / vaccination

Quote:
View Post
My kids have had every vaccination so far as i do not want my kids to be at risk with these illnesses, i do know some swiss families that do not have the vaccinations they prefare natural medicine, because of this 1 little girl nearly died, and in the end she ended up in hospital for a very long time, and she will have to have regular hospital visits in the future. I for one would not like my kids to go to KG, or school with other children that have not had there vaccinations.
Natural medicine, something like: http://www.oregonlive.com/news/orego...210.xml&coll=7??

Sometimes I've got feeling that as civilisation advances people tend to get more stupid... It's like 13th century people using 21st century tools and still ignoring the progress that had been done in the 8 centuries...
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 02.04.2008, 10:32
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 10,071
Groaned at 267 Times in 211 Posts
Thanked 14,181 Times in 5,758 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Measles cases in Switzerland / vaccination

[quote=Dani_SF;199258]Shower once a week?

Scharlach, Roeteln and Masern are usually not vaccinated against, at least not when I was a kid.

quote]

You can't provide vaccination against scarlet fever (scharlach) - it's caused by a bacterial infection. It's treated with antibiotics.

My sister in-law is always getting pressure put on her by a Swiss friend not to treat her children with anything. One of her children had scarlet fever a couple of weeks ago. "I hope you're not giving him antibiotics !", was her friend's cry.
Luckily she was. My sister in law gets quite upset that her friend is putting this pressure on her. I would quite like to explain the other side of the argumen to her friend but I'm not allowed as it would be too confrontational.
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 02.04.2008, 15:11
Nathu's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 4,674
Groaned at 18 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,248 Posts
Nathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Measles cases in Switzerland / vaccination

Quote:
View Post
It seems that only 58% of the Swiss Population is vaccined against Measles for example
That's a mistranslation from your link. The actual vaccination rate is in the eighties but this is still too low.

For my opinion on the subject, you can follow Nev's link... If I was in the shoes of Tom1234's sister in law I'd not tolerate this pressure. I acknowledge that people sometimes wrongly use antibiotics (for viral diseases, or they stop taking them as soon as the symptoms are gone). But the benefits of antibiotics are huge.
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 02.04.2008, 15:49
Sandgrounder's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: ZH
Posts: 9,688
Groaned at 73 Times in 66 Posts
Thanked 14,748 Times in 5,754 Posts
Sandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Measles cases in Switzerland / vaccination

Quote:
View Post
I am wondering if this is another kind of 'shower once a week' kind of thing?

Comments?
That’s a cracker! I think someone was pulling your leg when they told you this one.

As for the vaccinations, we had our little fella vaccinated for the “biggies” but not for stuff like chicken pox. Yes, I know there are cases cited on scary websites with all the gruesome instances of chicken pox gone wild and daft but two separate doctors have now told me (one Swiss and one UK) that even if you have the vaccination it doesn’t protect 100%. You can still get it, albeit a bit milder. I got chicken pox when I was 8 and felt crap and spotty for a couple of weeks but emerged none the worse for it.

Now, if someone would invent a blanket vaccine for the common cold, I might just indulge. Anything is better than constantly wiping my nose and feeling like someone has filled my head with cotton wool.

Tempo and Neo Citran shares have now gone through the roof…
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 02.04.2008, 16:09
möpp's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,196
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 1,075 Times in 544 Posts
möpp has a reputation beyond reputemöpp has a reputation beyond reputemöpp has a reputation beyond reputemöpp has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Measles cases in Switzerland / vaccination

There was quite a debate on TV recently concerning whether or not to vaccinate kids against measles. The pro (from doctor at the Inselspital in Berne) was VACCINATE - it's safe, easy, and avoids problems at a later stage in life. The contra (from a homeopathic paediatrician) was - DON'T VACCINATE - the best protection is if kids get measles at an early age and thus build up a natural resistance.
There's quite a measles "epidemic" doing the rounds at the moment, because too many parents haven't vaccinated in the past 10 years, believing that the disease had been eradicated. Not so!
I personally don't have children, but if I did, I would....
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 02.04.2008, 17:26
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 10,071
Groaned at 267 Times in 211 Posts
Thanked 14,181 Times in 5,758 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Measles cases in Switzerland / vaccination

Quote:
View Post
If I was in the shoes of Tom1234's sister in law I'd not tolerate this pressure. I acknowledge that people sometimes wrongly use antibiotics (for viral diseases, or they stop taking them as soon as the symptoms are gone). But the benefits of antibiotics are huge.
She can just about put up with the pressure from her friend as her sister (my wife) is a biologist and has a firm stance on what really works.
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 02.04.2008, 17:33
SCDH's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Basel
Posts: 57
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 54 Times in 29 Posts
SCDH has made some interesting contributions
Re: Measles cases in Switzerland / vaccination

I lived in Britain until a few years ago and I was given the BCG (against tuberculosis) at school. I was extremely surprised to find that neither that nor the MMR vaccine are that common... apparently you only get vaccinated against tuberculosis if you travel to a third world country. It's not a question of preferring 'natural' treatment so much as that most doctors don't consider it necessary.

(by the way Röteln is Rubella)
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old 02.04.2008, 18:22
leylak's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 321
Groaned at 7 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 140 Times in 60 Posts
leylak is considered knowledgeableleylak is considered knowledgeableleylak is considered knowledgeable
Re: Measles cases in Switzerland / vaccination

Kayser Soze thank you for your post.

I started wavering on the MMR vaccine just a couple of days ago when the anti-vaccination rabble actually got to me with the autism card. Now that I know that rubella and measles DO make the rounds here, I am definitely vaccinating.

Don't care too much about chicken pox. Also ghosts from my micro class are reminding me that the BCG does not confer immunity for TB. I had it done but it is not commonly done in the US.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wills in Switzerland: avoiding Pflichtteil (Obligatory apportionment) meloncollie Other/general 29 07.03.2013 15:14


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 18:35.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0