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Old 22.10.2009, 12:19
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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And it tends to manifest itself around the same age as vaccination is to be administered. Correlation does not equal causation

There also have been no medical studies that link Autism to vaccination.
There was but the guy got struck off for fudging and fabricating the results to make it fit (see the article earlier in this thread).
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  #122  
Old 23.10.2009, 15:26
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

Here's another article, which I found quite interesting, from a parent of an immuno-suppressed child regarding vaccination. http://www.slate.com/id/2232977/
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  #123  
Old 23.10.2009, 15:53
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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Why would anyone want to avoid vaccination?

Those that are mad or misinformed enough to want to do so, please collect the vaccine and send it to Africa - many there would like the chance of protecting their kids from measles, as an example, still a killer in many countries.

Apologies for the holier-than-thou attitude but some things in life are just too mind boggling stupid for words. Except those words. The ones I just used.

you can have my shot if you like... there is plenty of peer evaluated research(scientific) available which contradicts the accepted dogma of the vaccine cure all here is an exert from a paper from a swiss scientist


An analysis has been made of the evolution in Switzerland of mortality due to the main infectious diseases ever since the causes of death began to be registered. Mortality due to tuberculosis, diphtheria, scarlet fever, whooping cough, measles, typhoid, puerperal fever and infant gastro-enteritis started to fall long before the introduction of immunization and/or antibiotics. The decline was probably due to a great extent to various factors linked to the steady rise in the standard of living: qualitative and quantitative improvements in nutrition; better public and personal hygiene; better housing and working conditions and improvements in education

to think that the introduction of live virus mixed with squaline adjuvents, mercury preservatives and dead monkey liver cells etc into our bloodstream is the best way of fighting disease is a joke.What about healthy eating, exercise, vitamin c vitamin d positive outlook, good nights sleep noo noo noo vaccines are the only way?!.... my children will NOT be receiving vaccines
there is my two penneth, groan away I will be happy to supply some links for educational purposes

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  #124  
Old 23.10.2009, 16:04
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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to think that the introduction of live virus mixed with squaline adjuvents, mercury preservatives and dead monkey liver cells etc into our bloodstream is the best way of fighting disease is a joke.What about healthy eating, exercise, vitamin c vitamin d positive outlook, good nights sleep noo noo noo vaccines are the only way?!.... my children will NOT be receiving vaccines
there is my two penneth, groan away I will be happy to supply some links for educational purposes
Which just goes to show you know next to nothing about vaccine formulation. You may, or may not, be surprised to know that not all vaccines contain live virus, mercury preservatives, dead monkey cells etc etc. But then you probably survive on reading crackpot, homeopathic, conspiracy theorist internet sites, who have their own hidden agendas. Considering your so-called claims about vaccines and the millions of people wolrdwide who have received vaccinations, it's a wonder we're not all brain-dead mindless zombies, at the beck and call of the evil pharmaceutical companies and the New World Order. Get some real scientific facts and get a life.
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  #125  
Old 23.10.2009, 16:05
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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An analysis has been made of the evolution in Switzerland of mortality due to the main infectious diseases ever since the causes of death began to be registered. Mortality due to tuberculosis, diphtheria, scarlet fever, whooping cough, measles, typhoid, puerperal fever and infant gastro-enteritis started to fall long before the introduction of immunization and/or antibiotics. The decline was probably due to a great extent to various factors linked to the steady rise in the standard of living: qualitative and quantitative improvements in nutrition; better public and personal hygiene; better housing and working conditions and improvements in education

to think that the introduction of live virus mixed with squaline adjuvents, mercury preservatives and dead monkey liver cells etc into our bloodstream is the best way of fighting disease is a joke.What about healthy eating, exercise, vitamin c vitamin d positive outlook, good nights sleep noo noo noo vaccines are the only way?!.... my children will NOT be receiving vaccines
there is my two penneth, groan away I will be happy to supply some links for educational purposes
Of course personal hygiene and education lowered the cases of all diseases. That does not invalidate the point that vaccinations prevent specific diseases. Please feel free to add studies that prove that vaccinations do not work.

I would strongly suggest you read up on the links above it might dispell some of the myths and I hope you will better be able to calculate the odds. All the healthiest lifestyle choices and tin foil hats will not help your kid from a nasty desease.
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  #126  
Old 23.10.2009, 16:11
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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groan away I will be happy to supply some links for educational purposes
Pls do, some scientific ones with reference...

And incidentally... how does increase in education prevent a virus from spreading and killing?

Ah yes, we know we should wash our hands... I am trying to teach to my 1 yr old not to slobber or put in her mouth things that have been used by other kids at krippe but somehow... hey it just does not work...

It ANGERS ME beyond belief to know that she could have caught mumps or rubella from an older child before she was old enough to be vaccinated because of people so ignorant to believe ANYTHING they find on the internet...

I am so not for fighting on forums or causing polemics but this is the one topic that has me jumping in my seat!!!

You are choosing to let your child potentially carry diseases that can be deadly to those at risk and that cannot be vaccinated. I do hope you are aware of that and will make it your duty to inform those at risk around you.

Waiting for the links...
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  #127  
Old 23.10.2009, 16:28
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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Of course personal hygiene and education lowered the cases of all diseases. That does not invalidate the point that vaccinations prevent specific diseases. Please feel free to add studies that prove that vaccinations do not work.
I think it is up there somewhere with "chilly draughts cause the flu" and "butter application is ideal treatment for third degree burns".
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  #128  
Old 23.10.2009, 16:31
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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It ANGERS ME beyond belief to know that she could have caught mumps or rubella from an older child before she was old enough to be vaccinated because of people so ignorant to believe ANYTHING they find on the internet...

Even if she got the vaccination it does not always take. What makes it work is if whole community is vaccinated so the disease does not show up. Its absolutely ridiculous that diseases that were virtually eradicated in the western world is returning due to misinformed decisions.

Its like if people choose not to wear a seat belt because they think they might be trapped in case of a roll over.
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  #129  
Old 24.10.2009, 00:50
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

you can read the insert in the seasonal flu vaccine here



http://www.infowars.com/evidence-of-...-vaccination/#

it wasn't hard to find I just typed in 'flu vaccine insert' into a search engine and read their own information.
thimersol can trigger an auto immunse response in anybody suffering from a relatively common(1 in 50) mitrochondrial genetic disorder which results in autism....
to suggest I am not scientically informed is wrong I have an engineering degree and studied material and chemical engineering so I am not just some tin foil hat wearing mentalist.
the best teachers and role models I had when growing up told me to always ask questions
that is all I am doing, raising a question on the supposed safety of the upcoming swine flu shots and shots in general.
if you want to inject yourself and your loved ones with something the least you can do is read the bleeding box.
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  #130  
Old 24.10.2009, 07:16
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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you can read the insert in the seasonal flu vaccine here
http://www.infowars.com/evidence-of-...-vaccination/#

it wasn't hard to find I just typed in 'flu vaccine insert' into a search engine and read their own information.
thimersol can trigger an auto immunse response in anybody suffering from a relatively common(1 in 50) mitrochondrial genetic disorder which results in autism....

Taking that at face value means that "you" think that avoiding a potential trigger (for which there are counter arguments btw... it has not actually been proven at all) of mental illness for your child is a valid reason for you to put "my" child (and my mother, and aids / hiv patients, and cancer patients) at risk for life threatening diseases?


Aside from that, check out the CDC website (I think I even have linked it already in this thread)... it is possible to get a "preservative-free" version of the Flu vaccine.

In fact, here is what the CDC has to say about it:
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/updates/thimerosal.htm

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=Mercury and Vaccines (Thimerosal)= Thimerosal is a mercury-containing preservative used in some vaccines and other products since the 1930s. There is no convincing scientific evidence of harm caused by the low doses of thimerosal in vaccines, except for minor reactions like redness and swelling at the injection site. However, in July 1999, the Public Health Service agencies, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and vaccine manufacturers agreed that thimerosal should be reduced or eliminated in vaccines as a precautionary measure.
Since 2001, with the exception of some influenza (flu) vaccines, thimerosal is not used as a preservative in routinely recommended childhood vaccines.

From the CDC on preservative-free Flu vaccine:
http://www.cdc.gov/FLU/ABOUT/QA/thimerosal.htm

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=====Does the influenza vaccine contain thimerosal?===== Yes, the majority of influenza vaccines distributed in the United States currently contain thimerosal as a preservative. However, some contain only trace amounts of thimerosal and are considered by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to be preservative-free. Manufacturers of preservative-free flu vaccine use thimerosal early in the manufacturing process. The thimerosal gets diluted as the vaccine goes through the steps in processing. By the end of the manufacturing process there is not enough thimerosal left in the vaccine to act as a preservative and the vaccine is labeled "preservative-free".


So, all in all, if you want to avoid vaccinating your children, that's your thing.

HOWEVER, if you do, keep your child home. Home school and never allow them to have friends over, to play at the playground, to be babysat along side other children. In fact, make sure that EVERYONE whom your child comes into contact with has been vaccinated against all the things your child was not.

After all, you wouldn't want to be responsible for making someone else's teenage son sterile because your child gave him the mumps, right?
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  #131  
Old 24.10.2009, 12:12
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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Taking that at face value means that "you" think that avoiding a potential trigger (for which there are counter arguments btw... it has not actually been proven at all) of mental illness for your child is a valid reason for you to put "my" child (and my mother, and aids / hiv patients, and cancer patients) at risk for life threatening diseases?


Aside from that, check out the CDC website (I think I even have linked it already in this thread)... it is possible to get a "preservative-free" version of the Flu vaccine.

In fact, here is what the CDC has to say about it:
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/updates/thimerosal.htm




From the CDC on preservative-free Flu vaccine:
http://www.cdc.gov/FLU/ABOUT/QA/thimerosal.htm





So, all in all, if you want to avoid vaccinating your children, that's your thing.

HOWEVER, if you do, keep your child home. Home school and never allow them to have friends over, to play at the playground, to be babysat along side other children. In fact, make sure that EVERYONE whom your child comes into contact with has been vaccinated against all the things your child was not.

After all, you wouldn't want to be responsible for making someone else's teenage son sterile because your child gave him the mumps, right?

you are what is wrong with this world I wouldn't even try to educate you, you are too far gone
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  #132  
Old 24.10.2009, 12:38
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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you are what is wrong with this world I wouldn't even try to educate you, you are too far gone

*I* am what is wrong with this world? Indeed... I have a low immunity and catch virtually everything communicable I come in contact with. How would you like to know you are going to get the flu EVERY year of your career because your coworkers couldn't be bothered to stay home?

Meanwhile, due to medications she's taken through her life, my mother now has to take immuno-suppressant drugs which means SHE catches everything that's going around... and as her coworkers couldn't be bothered to stay home either, SHE LOST HER JOB.

This is a particular thing for my family... I do not care if you choose to avoid immunizations BUT if you do, stay the heck away from me!
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  #133  
Old 24.10.2009, 13:45
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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you are what is wrong with this world I wouldn't even try to educate you, you are too far gone
This is so typical of anti vaccine crowd!

You guys throw something out there (typically some rubbish found on some stupid site), someone takes the time to answer you lengthily, trying to make you understand more about what you are saying, and then you just check out...

You mention being educated and wanting to ask questions, then you get answers you do not like and this is the kind of reply you give?

Well done, I am sure your teachers would be proud of you...

Like Peg said, pls stay home and away from populations at risk, your child could be causing someone else's child/brother/mom/grandparent sickness and grief...

Last edited by kri; 24.10.2009 at 13:47. Reason: typos
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  #134  
Old 26.10.2009, 10:41
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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And it tends to manifest itself around the same age as vaccination is to be administered. Correlation does not equal causation

There also have been no medical studies that link Autism to vaccination.
Has there been a study that shows that children develop autism despite opting out of vaccination?
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  #135  
Old 26.10.2009, 10:52
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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you are what is wrong with this world I wouldn't even try to educate you, you are too far gone

There are a lot of things wrong with this world, vaccination isn't one of them.
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  #136  
Old 26.10.2009, 11:02
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

Yes there has. The incidence of Autisism is the same whether or not children have been vaccinated. Also a study of adults was recently published that showed that the number of cases of Autism has stayed the same for the last few decades i.e. there has been no rise in numbers since MMR was introduced. I posted links to these studies in another thread.

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Has there been a study that shows that children develop autism despite opting out of vaccination?
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  #137  
Old 26.10.2009, 11:03
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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Has there been a study that shows that children develop autism despite opting out of vaccination?
Yes, there has been at least one, a Danish longitudinal study and it found that the incidence of autism is the same in vaccinated and non vaccinated kids. Sorry, don't have the ref on hand.
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  #138  
Old 26.10.2009, 11:08
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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Doctors, scientist, news on TV and Government officials...... what ever they say is the truth. Why research anything, they say so, it must be true.
Yeah, why trust scietists who actually conduct clinical trials and experiments when you can just trust random unsupported tripe you find on the Internet. Performed any double blind clinical trials latey? I'm guessing no. If you aren't reading the actual scientific literature, exactly what kind of 'research' are you doing? Looking for stuff on the intertubes that supports your prejudices?
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  #139  
Old 26.10.2009, 11:25
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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you are what is wrong with this world I wouldn't even try to educate you, you are too far gone
Phew close escape there PegA. You we're potentially looking at hours on end of ill informed conspiracy theorists trying to convince you to risk your childrens lives by not vaccinating them because everyone is out to get you, especially scientists, governments and 'them'.

The don't vaccinate argument is beneath contempt.
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  #140  
Old 26.10.2009, 11:29
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

why is there even this debate? look at the facts, the uk's vaccination program irradiated common disease, eg polo, whooping cough, tb etc etc while all around the world people where still dying in large numbers for these disease. As soon as we got a bit lax with the vaccinations these disease came back to the uk, eg TB is now a big problem in some inner cities in the uk, and since the whole MMR thing there have been several large measles outbreaks.
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