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  #61  
Old 27.02.2011, 01:05
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Re: BROWN and YELLOW teeth from toothpastes

Thanks, Captain! I am sure you and I could get lost in the world of teeth....so it is with people who love their work.

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Susan, thank you very much. I couldn't agree more.

I already briefly mentioned the RDA issue (just using the more general term 'abrasivity' instead. If we start trying to explain to our fellow EFers what RDA means, we'll get into rough waters.

Life is a process of permanent learning, and so is science, not matter what kind. In one of your earlier posts on this thread you mentioned the four factors that influence dental health, a very nice summary, by the way. Believe it or not, in the late 'sixties, the Department of Conservative Dentistry at the Dewtal School in Zurich more or less flat out denied a hereditary influence. Those guys said the genes may matter in a few very rare cases, but that's about it. They have learned quite a bit meanwhile.

By the way, forget academic titles and the like, just call me Captain, ok?



Good job! I'd like to add that there may be good reasons for using stannous fluoride, as Susan already stated above, but if that is the case and serious staining does occur, I'd recommend using the stannous stuff and another paste alternately instead of forgoing the possible health benefits of the stannous fluoride for the sake of mere beauty. Susan, what do you think?


I can't quite follow that kind of logic. Actually, the enamel generally is rather on the whitish side. The dentin, which is the layer beneath the enamel, is more yellowish - brownish. The thinner the enamel, the more you can see the darker dentin through it.

On the other hand, there are huge differences expecially as to the color of dentin. In our lab, we use 48 dentin colors for making crowns that match their natural neighbors. You wouldn't believe the wide range of colors.

The color is mostly a hereditary thing, apart from discolorations by pigments and the like. On the other hand, you must know that dentin normally turns darker as the decades pile up on your birth certificate. Most of that change has nothing to do with the external staining that is the main topic of this thread; it comes from the inside.

As for erosion -- the main problem is dentin erosion, not enamel erosion. I'd venture to say I need to see 100 severe dentin erosion cases to see one enamel erosion that really matters. Most of those are caused by excessive and usually technically wrong brushing combined with dietary factors, as already briefly alluded to both by Susan and Marie.

There also are cases of severe enamel abrasion caused by grinding / gnashing the teeth, known as bruxism in Dentalese, but that's another topic.

Enamel is about as hard as glass, thus very resistant to abrasion, unless chemically attacked by acids, see Marie's post (acidic, in that context, meaning fresh fruit, many beverages like cola, lemonades and pretty much everything that comes in little bottles or cans, is bubbly and pleases the palate).

The enamel covers the entire crown of every tooth, but not its root. The dentin is only about as hard as compact bone, thus can be abraded fairly easily. The dentin inside the crown normally is protected by the enamel, but the the root dentin isn't.

The root dentin of young people usually is covered by the gums, but most adults have some gum recession. Up to a certain degree that's normal and very much a matter of the genes too, but gums can get brushed away by wrong handling of the tooth brush.

Anyway, gum recession means that the dentin surface of the roots gets exposed to abrasion caused by brushing. The dentin abrasion caused by eating usually isn't very pronounced, but poor brushing technique can dig a deep groove into the root dentin in just a few years.

The problem is, people who think they do a great job because they brush their teeth very frequently may ruin their root dentin unless they really know how to do it properly. That's where Susan and her ilk come into the picture, showing you what to do and how to do it, including the abrasivity aspect of tooth pastes.
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Old 27.02.2011, 01:58
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Re: Brown and yellow teeth from toothpastes

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh didnt know that thanks for the info
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  #63  
Old 27.02.2011, 02:12
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Re: BROWN and YELLOW teeth from toothpastes

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Yes. I did mean to add that to the summary. SF can be necessary for certian "problems" but since I wasn't sure what how, I left it off. I hope I still get good marks!
Oh yes you sure do.

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I don't know the logic either. I've just heard it said. Maybe they mean thin teeth in general where thicker teeth have thicker dentin?
I don't think that makes more sense. The enamel is much more transparent than the dentin. Actually you can fairly easily see trough more than a millimeter of enamel, whereas 0.3 mm of dentin obstruct the sight very heavily. So thicker dentin doesn't make much of a difference, while thicker enamel makes the tooth look lighter.

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I went to get my teeth whitened a few weeks ago and I was surprised that I was only three down from the lightest. I haven't been to the dentist since I left CH 2 years ago.

I wonder if these little sample teeth are the same for every country. My teeth certainly are not blinding white like we see on celebrities.
Yeah, that's fairly light. The bad thing is, these days greedy dentists allow vain patients to talk them into overbleaching their teeth. As a consequence, the makers of dental materials had to introduce special "bleach colors" to match those ridiculously white teeth in case of a filling or a crown, up to five steps lighter than what was the lightest and hardly ever used shade before the advent of tooth bleaching as mass sport.

Those sample teethies are a matter of the respective maker of the materials. There are many very different systems around, most of them totally incompatible to one another.

I hope you don't want your teeth look as unnatural as the tiled walls in the mouths of those celebrities.

By the way, have you ever seen how photo editors of magazines brush up practically every detail of their darlings? Don't trust anything you see in a magazine. These days every jack@ass with a picture processor can make a stunning beauty out of a boring wallflower, white teeth included.

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Ah. So erosion is a problem at the gum and the root?
Not exclusively, but that's the most frequent and usually also most relevant kind.


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Thanks, Captain! I am sure you and I could get lost in the world of teeth....so it is with people who love their work.
Ok, ok, but I do have other interests too. For instance, there is a fairly big circle of computer pros who think I am one of them. They do not even know that my bread and butter occupation is oral surgery.
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  #64  
Old 01.03.2011, 01:23
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Re: Brown and yellow teeth from toothpastes

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If you have particular problems, best to ask your dentist or an experienced hygienist. Good luck.
No. No problems. Apparently I got lucky on the tooth color thing. Too bad I didn't get the skinny genes so I could wear the skinny jeans!

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Oh yes you sure do.
Thanks! & thanks for info on this topic.
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  #65  
Old 31.08.2014, 02:54
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Re: Brown and yellow teeth from toothpastes

Hi Susan,

It seems that the purple Elmex toothpaste doesn't stain teeth (ingredients: http://www.codecheck.info/kosmetik_k...ionsschutz.pro) Is this correct or will it eventually stain due to some ingredient?

I've also been wondering if weekly use of two-toned disclosing tablets is bad, I love the idea of having perfectly plaque-free teeth and they're a huge help with improving brushing and flossing skills. It's a shame the good dental stuff is so expensive, but I shell out the dough because I love the idea of still having my own completely cavity-free teeth to eat with when I'm old and creaky, as well as spending the money I saved for cavity etc. care on a nice gift to myself.

Also, do you know where I can get a good mouth mirror (the ones you use to look at the backs of teeth)?

Thanks
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  #66  
Old 31.08.2014, 09:34
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Re: Brown and yellow teeth from toothpastes

I have a question - is it possible to treat/renovate enamel that is eroded?
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  #67  
Old 31.08.2014, 09:41
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Re: Brown and yellow teeth from toothpastes

My google-fu just told me that the fluoride and chloride ingredients are the same in both my aforementioned elmex toothpaste and the elmex rinse associated with discoloration. Reason enough for me to chuck them and immediately switch to another "stannous chemical element" free, sodium fluoride containing toothpaste which I thankfully had in my selection.

Does anyone know if tooth discolorations can occur if I
  • remove my plaque as completely as possible by brushing and flossing diligently and using disclosing tablets
  • don't drink black tea, green tea or coffee
  • follow fruit juice drinks with a glass of water?

Is it possible to reverse the kind of discoloration caused by toothpastes containing stannous ingredients for a couple weeks by using a stannous ingredient free toothpaste for a couple months?

Thanks again.

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I have a question - is it possible to treat/renovate enamel that is eroded?
the toothpaste I just started using is called sensodyne pronamel (green lid), I don't know if it does renovate enamel but I thought I'd mention it to you. (I'm not affiliated with any tooth product companies btw )

Last edited by glowjupiter; 31.08.2014 at 09:50. Reason: spelling
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  #68  
Old 31.08.2014, 11:02
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Re: Brown and yellow teeth from toothpastes

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the toothpaste I just started using is called sensodyne pronamel (green lid), I don't know if it does renovate enamel but I thought I'd mention it to you. (I'm not affiliated with any tooth product companies btw )
I have been using Elmex for years and yes I can say I have yellow/brown teeth. No problem for me though. But never thought it was from Elmex! So good to know.
I can also say that Pronamel makes my teeth feel stronger and I like the taste much better. I alternate with Elmex. When I brush with Pronamel and then I touch my teeth together or make noises with my teeth , they feel fuller.
I also use Elmex anti erosion and I have the same feeling as with Pronamel- my teeth feel fuller and whiter. I also get the same results with Aronal (it is with zink and is kind of an Elmex for the morning use). Also my teeth got whiter.

Last edited by princessduck; 31.08.2014 at 12:43.
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  #69  
Old 31.08.2014, 11:53
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Re: Brown and yellow teeth from toothpastes

This product, although not new on the market, can deal with yellow teeth.
You'll wonder where the yellow went when you brush your teeth with Pepsodent . . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP2h4LjBXu0
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  #70  
Old 31.08.2014, 12:01
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Re: Brown and yellow teeth from toothpastes

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Also, do you know where I can get a good mouth mirror (the ones you use to look at the backs of teeth)?
good question
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  #71  
Old 31.08.2014, 12:17
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Re: Brown and yellow teeth from toothpastes

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. . . Also, do you know where I can get a good mouth mirror (the ones you use to look at the backs of teeth)? . . .
For example (German: Mundspiegel). . .
https://www.mwdental.ch/mundspiegel-...i-pg-shop.html
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  #72  
Old 31.08.2014, 14:17
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Re: Brown and yellow teeth from toothpastes

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This product, although not new on the market, can deal with yellow teeth.
You'll wonder where the yellow went when you brush your teeth with Pepsodent . . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP2h4LjBXu0
I only use products with low abrasivity due to abrasive pastes' enamel wearing properties. Thanks anyway for the suggestion.

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I have been using Elmex for years and yes I can say I have yellow/brown teeth.
Which elmex have you been using for years? Red, green or purple? It seems the red one doesn't contain stannous ingredients.

Btw, I'm wondering which ingredient is the stannous one in elmex green Can someone enlighten me?
Thanks.

Last edited by glowjupiter; 31.08.2014 at 14:38.
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  #73  
Old 14.09.2014, 09:54
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Re: Brown and yellow teeth from toothpastes

By chance, I searched the topic dental and was amused to see this thread had been re-activated, especially since I deemed it a can of worms years ago.

Meanwhile, I continue to be fascinated with the results of different products used for oral hygiene, though I have realized one might need to be a Bio Chemist to actually speak with any level of authority.

My deductions are simple observations, mixed together with years! of professional experience. And, I can say, the more I know, the more I don't know. The ingredient lists are generally too complicated for the average consumer, and selection is based on many factors.

Yet, I can spot certain product users a mile away and do wonder why any dentist would want their freshly placed composite filling margins to become eventually stained. Or, why patients choose to use them.

Lastly, it is also a question of human nature and our tendency to buy what is familiar to us. WOW, the power of marketing. ( as demonstrated by the obviously dated Pepsodent advert :-))

Recently, my eyes were caught by a magazine cover, at a nearby news-stand. Perhaps, the young athlete would have benefitted from a little Dental Hygiene, before his big event.

Bless his heart. They could have, at least, photo-shopped his smile.
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  #74  
Old 14.09.2014, 10:21
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Re: Brown and yellow teeth from toothpastes

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By chance, I searched the topic dental and was amused to see this thread had been re-activated, especially since I deemed it a can of worms years ago.

Meanwhile, I continue to be fascinated with the results of different products used for oral hygiene, though I have realized one might need to be a Bio Chemist to actually speak with any level of authority.

My deductions are simple observations, mixed together with years! of professional experience. And, I can say, the more I know, the more I don't know. The ingredient lists are generally too complicated for the average consumer, and selection is based on many factors.

Yet, I can spot certain product users a mile away and do wonder why any dentist would want their freshly placed composite filling margins to become eventually stained. Or, why patients choose to use them.

Lastly, it is also a question of human nature and our tendency to buy what is familiar to us. WOW, the power of marketing. ( as demonstrated by the obviously dated Pepsodent advert :-))

Recently, my eyes were caught by a magazine cover, at a nearby news-stand. Perhaps, the young athlete would have benefitted from a little Dental Hygiene, before his big event.

Bless his heart. They could have, at least, photo-shopped his smile.
OMG, disaster! Poor guy needs some work.
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  #75  
Old 14.09.2014, 10:34
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Re: Brown and yellow teeth from toothpastes

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OMG, disaster! Poor guy needs some work.
Would take about one hour, less than 200 chf, and he could have a sparkling smile. It's only superficial stain, in his case.
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  #76  
Old 14.09.2014, 10:39
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Re: Brown and yellow teeth from toothpastes

Actually, I find it a bit refreshing that they didn't Photoshop his smile. I think that media imagery has become much too... Photoshopped... and I fear that it's really twisting our expectations and definitions of what is "normal" or "acceptable."

Anyways, just yesterday, I kind of accidentally stumbled upon an article online about "oil pulling" -- where you basically swish around about 1 Tbs. of oil (coconut oil, sesame oil, etc. -- whatever you choose) in your mouth for 20 minutes per day. Supposedly it helps draw out toxins and is good for oral hygiene and things like migraines, etc. and for whitening teeth. I guess it's long been practiced in Ayurvedic medicine.

I had never heard of it before yesterday. So out of curiosity, I read some trial reviews about it, and quite a few people did report that their teeth were whiter after only a few days of doing this.

I'm curious to know what any dental professionals here think about this "oil pulling" thing... and if anyone has tried it?
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  #77  
Old 14.09.2014, 11:38
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Re: Brown and yellow teeth from toothpastes

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Actually, I find it a bit refreshing that they didn't Photoshop his smile. I think that media imagery has become much too... Photoshopped... and I fear that it's really twisting our expectations and definitions of what is "normal" or "acceptable."

Anyways, just yesterday, I kind of accidentally stumbled upon an article online about "oil pulling" -- where you basically swish around about 1 Tbs. of oil (coconut oil, sesame oil, etc. -- whatever you choose) in your mouth for 20 minutes per day. Supposedly it helps draw out toxins and is good for oral hygiene and things like migraines, etc. and for whitening teeth. I guess it's long been practiced in Ayurvedic medicine.

I had never heard of it before yesterday. So out of curiosity, I read some trial reviews about it, and quite a few people did report that their teeth were whiter after only a few days of doing this.

I'm curious to know what any dental professionals here think about this "oil pulling" thing... and if anyone has tried it?

Coincidentally, I had a patient this week who practiced this method of oil pulling. Sounds interesting, and certainly may have its merits. However, it does not remove the bacterial sticky plaque which accumulates on our teeth. Although there are some people interested in white teeth, the main reason to remove this bacterial biofilm is health.

The origins of this thread was in relation to the unnecessarily unsightly effects of certain local toothpastes. However, ultimately, the most important subject is your health. Whether yellow or white, keeping your teeth and gums healthy will not only save money, but allow a better quality of life, as you grow older.

If you remove the plaque thoroughly, even the worst of toothpastes shall not stain your teeth. It is not the tooth, but the bacterial film, which gets stained. Most if the time, this can be removed professionally. (Google intrinsic vs extrinsic dental stain)

If you are interested , toothpastes with sodium fluoride create less stain.
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Old 14.09.2014, 16:02
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Re: Brown and yellow teeth from toothpastes

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I only use products with low abrasivity due to abrasive pastes' enamel wearing properties. Thanks anyway for the suggestion.



Which elmex have you been using for years? Red, green or purple? It seems the red one doesn't contain stannous ingredients.

Btw, I'm wondering which ingredient is the stannous one in elmex green Can someone enlighten me?
Thanks.
The orange one.
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Old 14.09.2014, 18:25
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Re: Brown and yellow teeth from toothpastes

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If you remove the plaque thoroughly, even the worst of toothpastes shall not stain your teeth. It is not the tooth, but the bacterial film, which gets stained. Most if the time, this can be removed professionally. (Google intrinsic vs extrinsic dental stain)

If you are interested , toothpastes with sodium fluoride create less stain.
Thank you, I'm now exclusively on one toothpaste which contains this type of fluoride. I hope the stain created by the purple elmex will be removed by careful brushing... disclosing tablets are really useful for that.

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The orange one.
Thanks for this.
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Old 17.01.2015, 10:35
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Re: Brown and yellow teeth from toothpastes

A bit of an update:

Long time patient switched exclusively to Colgate Total and Colgate White and I was quite surprised by the change. She had been dissatisfied with her teeth color for years and had even bleached, without good results.

I wouldn't say her teeth are sparkling white, but are a very pleasant light and natural color. Definitely, a positive change.

FYI, have had also great results with Sensodyne and Candida.
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