Moving a pension to Switzerland - Page 3

DaveA · #41 10.10.2007, 15:19

Can you have an "employee group of 10", and a "management group of 1" ?

dave

	Quote:	Richard
	If you have a company pension scheme then there is a basic rule of thumb that this needs to be the same for all employees which is 75% true. There are legal ways round this by creating an additional fund for management. As these funds are more personal and not subject to the obligatory structures you can more or less do what you want and certainly can have more exotic investments.

Richard · #42 10.10.2007, 15:24

	Quote:	Captain Pugwash
	I have been trying to move my pension from Germany, I paid in 64 months, but the German Pension agency are telling me , that this can only be done with payments of 60 months or less, bit unlucky looks like, anyone else had any problem with the transfer of pensions from Germany ? My German pension is in something called a "Rentenanspruch* Sounds painfull, is painfull

This is something slightly different... What you are talking about is the state pension scheme. This provides a right to a pension if you have contributed for 5 years in Germany. At that point it is locked in and non-transferable. If you had a company pension scheme then you could transfer this.

dbsb · #43 10.10.2007, 20:55

	Quote:	Richard
	This is something slightly different... What you are talking about is the state pension scheme. This provides a right to a pension if you have contributed for 5 years in Germany. At that point it is locked in and non-transferable. If you had a company pension scheme then you could transfer this.

Depends on what country you are moving to ie. if Germany has pension agreement with that country depends if you can take money out or not. For the USA there was no such agreement and you could take the money out even if you have contributed longer than 60 months, but the only portion you could take out is what was deducted from your salary not the portion the employer has contributed (this was the case in 2000, don't know if it changed since than). You can check this site in German to see what applies to your case:
http://www.deutsche-rentenversicheru...11270bodyText4

dannyt986 · #44 11.10.2007, 10:47

	Quote:	Sorem
	Any progress on your side? Have you initiated the transfer to SwissLife yet? I was told by Mercer in London that if the Swiss Pension Fund appears on the QROPs list then they shouldnt be any issues once the UK trustees have approved the transfer. Cheers

BTW here is a link to the list http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/PENSIONSCHEMES/qrops.pdf

dannyt986 · #45 11.10.2007, 11:00

	Quote:	Richard
	However, this is definitely not something an employee can choose. They can only choose to make additional voluntary contributions assuming they have purchase capacity in their fund. If you have a company pension scheme then there is a basic rule of thumb that this needs to be the same for all employees which is 75% true. There are legal ways round this by creating an additional fund for management. As these funds are more personal and not subject to the obligatory structures you can more or less do what you want and certainly can have more exotic investments.

I think I geddit... I wasnt thinking so much of managing the funds when I said controlling. You are referring to clever corporate tax planning for Swiss employing companies. If you happen to control and/or own the company, you can use it to optimise your own personal situation.

The point about additional funds is interesting. We have Swisscanto (part of SZKB) who are I think a bit parochial. It certainly galls me to see it getting diddly squat return (albeit capital guaranteed). Although of course maybe its easier just to accept a bit more risk on the rest of the non pension portfolio to compensate this particularly as no tax on private capital gains.

Thxs again.

Richard · #46 11.10.2007, 12:09

	Quote:	dannyt986
	I think I geddit... I wasnt thinking so much of managing the funds when I said controlling. You are referring to clever corporate tax planning for Swiss employing companies. If you happen to control and/or own the company, you can use it to optimise your own personal situation. The point about additional funds is interesting. We have Swisscanto (part of SZKB) who are I think a bit parochial. It certainly galls me to see it getting diddly squat return (albeit capital guaranteed). Although of course maybe its easier just to accept a bit more risk on the rest of the non pension portfolio to compensate this particularly as no tax on private capital gains. Thxs again.

90% Bingo. The other use is to make your company more attractive. If you are in a competitive market the better you make your pension plan the better the company is portrayed in the market. Swiss people invest a lot of time comparing pension schemes between companies... But also if you are a director of a company then having an additional director policy is beneficial and more private than mixing it with the rest of the employees. If you own the company then it is private tax optimization as you say.

The pension fund managers should guarantee a return of 2.5% and in reality hit nearer to 4. If you are not getting that check out what other Vorsorge funds are available. If they say none - move...

dannyt986 · #47 11.10.2007, 12:36

	Quote:	Richard
	90% Bingo.

If this was GCSE in Personal Finance that would earn me a A************ right... since 25% would get me an A. Im so proud ;-)

Richard · #48 11.10.2007, 13:32

	Quote:	dannyt986
	If this was GCSE in Personal Finance that would earn me a A*********** right... since 25% would get me an A. Im so proud ;-)*

TRue but the standards of qualifications in England IMHO have fallen somewhat from the time I got my 6 A levels, oh and a certifcate if you were in the top 3 for the year and I managed 103% for that - don't ask...

dannyt986 · #49 23.10.2007, 15:34

Here is the reply we received from Swisscanto

"Leider kann Herr Templeman seine Freizügigkeitsleistung aus der 2. Säule (Ausland) nicht transferieren. Die Schweiz untersteht nicht der neuen EU-Regelegung und hat die Gesetze nicht mit der EU harmonisiert. Deswegen wird die Swisscanto auch nicht auf der mitgeschickten Liste geführt. Konnte ich Ihnen damit weiter helfen? "

in short Switzerland is not part of the new EU regulation and has not harmonized these laws with the EU, hence Swisscanto is not on the list. was that helpful?

In short my answer was "No its not!". Watch this space.

D

Stu&Kara · #50 14.11.2007, 14:00

Blimey - a lot to think about. Good news on being able to transfer to a Swiss scheme, but I'm wondering if it's worth it?

I have 3 years in an NHS scheme (which is brilliant, final salary and all that) and one year in "local government" scheme in the UK - contributing to the public sector and all that.

I'm now moving to Zurich for 1-2years, possibly then back to UK. During my time in Zurich my standard company scheme is they contribute only (I get off scot free). If I'm only here 1-2years is it really worth me starting a Swiss pension scheme for personal contributions? And is it worth transferring 1 year of local government contributions to it?

I suspect not - however I welcome advice. By the way, on this basis, if I start a personal contribution pension in Switzerland (pillar 3a I think?) am I going to hit problems getting rid of it after only 2 years back to the UK? The process from UK - Swiss seems ok, but I'm wondering if UK pension schemes would be so generous about accepting Swiss pension contributions, and indeed whether I would get nailed for tax trying to remove it from Switzerland after only two years? Help needed!

dannyt986 · #51 14.11.2007, 14:07

Is the local gvmt scheme contribution based? If yes, I would suspect better to leave it. Either way, there may well be rules about short membership and sending you the money back??^

Re the Swiss scheme, if its the second pillar and its a company only contribution, of course you should take it... You will probably find the company has its own scheme of which you will automatically be a member anyway.

Daniel

Stu&Kara · #52 14.11.2007, 14:32

I'll definitely take the company contribution scheme - I was just pondering whether to bother with making personal contributions to a scheme, or just leave it.

I might just put money aside into an ISA in the UK, and buy lost years in a UK scheme when I move back to the UK.

dannyt986 · #53 14.11.2007, 14:35

You can only but ISAs if you are UK resident. Even if you can buy them buy bending the rules, there is no point.. how are you going to get the tax benefit?

You should search about the new rules about moving away back an EU country, but if you are a saver, then you may as well think of contributing.

Daniel

Stu&Kara · #54 14.11.2007, 16:20

True - buying them when out of the UK would be pointless. I do already have a UK isa though - and might use it for some savings.

What I'm trying to avoid is plunging money into pension/savings in Switzerland only to leave it stuck there should I leave after 1-2 years. I have read somewhere that Pillar 2 will give you a lump payment of your contributions if you leave Switzerland or have done less than 12mths, so that might not be too bad.

On this basis I may consider either buying extra into Pillar 2 (should the company scheme allow voluntary contributions from employees) or setting up my own Pillar 3a as a kind of tax-free savings account, and should I leave Switzerland just pay the tax when I withdraw it.

Am I thinking correctly on this?