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  #21  
Old 20.01.2012, 14:15
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Re: Transfer UK pension to QROPS in Switzerland after 5 UK tax years

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I think many people are sold QROPS transfers on the whole tax benefits side of things, or the lump sum/withdraw your money after 5 years, but the evidence is not stacking up.

I just do not see the tax benefits. If I have a pension in the UK and transfer it to say Guernsey, are my payments into it from either UK or Switzerland then tax deductible or is it a paid up policy then?
In the UK the dividends off the shares held in the pension are taxed, otherwise no tax is levied.
What are these tax advantages of having the pension held in Guernsey?

When I start to draw the pension, it must/should be declared where ever I am resident, so unless the pension is paid into say a Guernsey bank account and I use a debit card 'long range' for my day to day living etc and not declare it/hope not to get caught, how is getting my pension any more tax efficient if it's held offshore rather than say in the UK?

Though I can certainly see why someone would move their pension to CH to use as a deposit on a house, or move it to Oz if they live there, the whole offshore side of things, which most of the online advertising seems to be pushing, sounds very dubious.


The main reason for Qrops is there is no inhertiance tax if teh policy holder dies, so the policy would be passed onto next of king without any taxes.
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  #22  
Old 20.01.2012, 18:49
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Re: Transfer UK pension to QROPS in Switzerland after 5 UK tax years

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The main reason for Qrops is there is no inhertiance tax if teh policy holder dies, so the policy would be passed onto next of king without any taxes.
As pension funds are ALWAYS held in trust, they never are liable to IHT. You can nominate who you wished to receive the fund in the event of you dieing before retirement.

This is NOT an advantage of a Qrops scheme, any advisor telling you this is ill inforrmed at best or more likely just a dishonest crook after a commission.

UK Pension funds were also ringfenced from bankrupsy unless you are old enough to retire & draw benefits. That is probably the only real benefit a penson offers before 55 years of age.
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  #23  
Old 20.01.2012, 19:06
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Re: Transfer UK pension to QROPS in Switzerland after 5 UK tax years

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As pension funds are ALWAYS held in trust, they never are liable to IHT. You can nominate who you wished to receive the fund in the event of you dieing before retirement.

This is NOT an advantage of a Qrops scheme, any advisor telling you this is ill inforrmed at best or more likely just a dishonest crook after a commission.

UK Pension funds were also ringfenced from bankrupsy unless you are old enough to retire & draw benefits. That is probably the only real benefit a penson offers before 55 years of age.
Ah i think if you look into it properly you will see your wrong there,
Pensions are liable for IHT after death, before or after drawing
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  #24  
Old 20.01.2012, 19:37
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Re: Transfer UK pension to QROPS in Switzerland after 5 UK tax years

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Ah i think if you look into it properly you will see your wrong there,
Pensions are liable for IHT after death, before or after drawing
A pension fund is held in trust & never forms part of a deceased'd estate. Makes no difference if it's a company or personal pension.

Once it's it's drawn any cash taken out forms part of the estste. What happens to the rest depends on the type of annuity drawn (if any). Some pensions get made into 100 or 1000 seperate plans, they can be tacken at different times.

Never trust a pension advisor....especially one who you have not paid a fee to up front.
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  #25  
Old 20.01.2012, 20:08
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Re: Transfer UK pension to QROPS in Switzerland after 5 UK tax years

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A pension fund is held in trust & never forms part of a deceased'd estate. Makes no difference if it's a company or personal pension.

Once it's it's drawn any cash taken out forms part of the estste. What happens to the rest depends on the type of annuity drawn (if any). Some pensions get made into 100 or 1000 seperate plans, they can be tacken at different times.

Never trust a pension advisor....especially one who you have not paid a fee to up front.

Leaving a QROPS to family and loved ones

Combining the structure of a QROPS arrangement means the pension fund does not die when the holder dies. The entire remaining fund can be passed on to family or loved ones. Currently if you die before 75 you will probably have a 55% tax charge before you can pass on the proceeds to your beneficiaries. The same tax liability now exists for persons over the age of 75.
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Old 20.01.2012, 20:25
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Re: Transfer UK pension to QROPS in Switzerland after 5 UK tax years

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Leaving a QROPS to family and loved ones

Combining the structure of a QROPS arrangement means the pension fund does not die when the holder dies. The entire remaining fund can be passed on to family or loved ones. Currently if you die before 75 you will probably have a 55% tax charge before you can pass on the proceeds to your beneficiaries. The same tax liability now exists for persons over the age of 75.
If you die before retirement there will in most cases be ZERO tax to pay as a pension fund is held in trust, the trustees make a discresionary payment which falls outside IHT. It's EXACTLY whole of life insurance policies ussed to pay IHT are also held in trust!

If the pension is overfunded, which in 99% of cases won't be an issue there is a high exit tax on the overfubding slice. However the charges over the life of the pension 30+ years / QROPS / Exit funds will probably result in a fund half the size at retirement than if invested on it's own. As pension income is taxable the whole thing is a nonesense.

With an annuity it's possible to guarantee the pension for a no of years, if the person dies then the guaranteed part is paid out free of any taxes.

Don't trust anybody who pushes pensions, especially products that have high front end charges. I have heard 12% of fund mentioned in other threads, this wil have a huge effect on the final payout, probably cheaper to pay the tax......

Out of interest are you 'selling' such products? I notice you rep is how shall we day 'dissapointing', I notice your based in Spain!
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  #27  
Old 20.01.2012, 20:29
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Re: Transfer UK pension to QROPS in Switzerland after 5 UK tax years

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If you die before retirement there will in most cases be ZERO tax to pay as a pension fund is held in trust, the trustees make a discresionary payment which falls outside IHT. It's EXACTLY whole of life insurance policies ussed to pay IHT are also held in trust!

If the pension is overfunded, which in 99% of cases won't be an issue there is a high exit tax on the overfubding slice. However the charges over the life of the pension 30+ years / QROPS / Exit funds will probably result in a fund half the size at retirement than if invested on it's own. As pension income is taxable the whole thing is a nonesense.

With an annuity it's possible to guarantee the pension for a no of years, if the person dies then the guaranteed part is paid out free of any taxes.

Don't trust anybody who pushes pensions, especially products that have high front end charges. I have heard 12% of fund mentioned in other threads, this wil have a huge effect on the final payout, probably cheaper to pay the tax......

Out of interest are you 'selling' such products? I notice you rep is how shall we day 'dissapointing', I notice your based in Spain!

No i am not selling these products we have been through that before.
So im based in Spain what has that got to do with it i moved here from Zurich a year ago.

So if im living in Colombia does that mean im a Drug dealer NO
If you look into Qrops chrges there is normally a set up fee of about 1k and a yearly management fee of about 1k also.
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  #28  
Old 20.01.2012, 20:35
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Re: Transfer UK pension to QROPS in Switzerland after 5 UK tax years

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No i am not selling these products we have been through that before.
So im based in Spain what has that got to do with it i moved here from Zurich a year ago.

So if im living in Colombia does that mean im a Drug dealer NO
If you look into Qrops chrges there is normally a set up fee of about 1k and a yearly management fee of about 1k also.
Unless a fund exceeded 100k then using a Qrops would lead to unnecessary expenses .
Where your based has a huge impact, as in several countries there is very little or no regulation. How long did you live in Zurich ?

You seem to have an interest in Qrops that your not declairing, so your rep would seem on balance fair.
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  #29  
Old 20.01.2012, 20:48
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Re: Transfer UK pension to QROPS in Switzerland after 5 UK tax years

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Unless a fund exceeded 100k then using a Qrops would lead to unnecessary expenses .
Where your based has a huge impact, as in several countries there is very little or no regulation. How long did you live in Zurich ?

You seem to have an interest in Qrops that your not declairing, so your rep would seem on balance fair.
Lived in Zurich for about 3 years only left as had a little one and didnt see it as a place to bring up a child
I have transfered my one lately Darling so i did my research.

If you look at my rep its mostly to do with being an ARGUMENTATIVE

Could say same about you really with your knowledge,
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  #30  
Old 20.01.2012, 20:57
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Re: Transfer UK pension to QROPS in Switzerland after 5 UK tax years

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If you look at my rep its mostly to do with being an ARGUMENTATIVE

Could say same about you really with your knowledge,
I can't see why you have bad rep, or who gave it to you, I can see you have written a huge relative no of posts about this.

Good luck with you pension investment, really interested to know at the end of the day if it pays off for you, I have my suspicions you have been tacken for a ride.

Of course I am sure you do know that once you have broken all ties with the UK & intend never to return you can end up with a domicile of choice, at that point UK IHT is no longer payable. Of course that does not apply to everybody here.
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  #31  
Old 20.01.2012, 21:01
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Re: Transfer UK pension to QROPS in Switzerland after 5 UK tax years

Its because i like to argue and wind people up.

Well my pot started off at 81k and is now upto 92k in less than a year, choose all the investments myself

Fund Type Fund Day % Overall % Value Curr. %
Cash
JPMorgan
Elect Managed Cash 0.00 176.57 0.19%
Bonds
Standard Life
Select Income 0.34 2.39% 12,645.42 13.66%
Bonds
F&C
Ethical Bond -0.09 1.79% 12,571.20 13.58%
Bonds
Cazenove
UK Corporate Bond -0.05 0.67% 12,432.81 13.43%
UK
Equities
SJP
Equity Income -0.48 -1.49% 10,375.09 11.21%
UK
Equities
Fidelity
UK Growth 0.85 9.43% 11,525.80 12.45%
Overseas
Equities
JPMorgan
US Smaller Companies IT plc 0.82 9.44% 11,642.70 12.58%
Overseas
Equities
Gartmore
US Growth 0.68 9.27% 11,509.14 12.43%
Overseas
Equities
Royal London
European Growth 0.75 10.38% 9,686.41 10.46%
Total Allocation: 92,565.14 100%

So doing well. No suspicions i was taken for a ride did most of it myself

Its not only uk IHT is also payable in Spain
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  #32  
Old 21.01.2012, 01:47
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Re: Transfer UK pension to QROPS in Switzerland after 5 UK tax years

If I could invest dirctly in NASDAQ stocks I would be interested myself. I dont like paying fund fees & expenses of 2-3% plus management fees of 1% myself. I hope your good luck continues.
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Its because i like to argue and wind people up.

Well my pot started off at 81k and is now upto 92k in less than a year, choose all the investments myself

Fund Type Fund Day % Overall % Value Curr. %
Cash
JPMorgan
Elect Managed Cash 0.00 176.57 0.19%
Bonds
Standard Life
Select Income 0.34 2.39% 12,645.42 13.66%
Bonds
F&C
Ethical Bond -0.09 1.79% 12,571.20 13.58%
Bonds
Cazenove
UK Corporate Bond -0.05 0.67% 12,432.81 13.43%
UK
Equities
SJP
Equity Income -0.48 -1.49% 10,375.09 11.21%
UK
Equities
Fidelity
UK Growth 0.85 9.43% 11,525.80 12.45%
Overseas
Equities
JPMorgan
US Smaller Companies IT plc 0.82 9.44% 11,642.70 12.58%
Overseas
Equities
Gartmore
US Growth 0.68 9.27% 11,509.14 12.43%
Overseas
Equities
Royal London
European Growth 0.75 10.38% 9,686.41 10.46%
Total Allocation: 92,565.14 100%

So doing well. No suspicions i was taken for a ride did most of it myself

Its not only uk IHT is also payable in Spain
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  #33  
Old 23.01.2012, 15:07
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Re: Transfer UK pension to QROPS in Switzerland after 5 UK tax years

Hi all,
I wanted to pass on this link for some of the folks who are talking about the 5 years reporting rule in regards to QROPS.

http://www.international-adviser.com...akeup-of-qrops

It may, from April be increased to 10 years. If you really want to read the HMRC proposal here is the link.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/budget-update...-bill-2012.htm

To the fellow who wanted to invest on the NASDAQ, why don't you open up an online trading account such as Charles Schwab or TD Ameritrade. I believe you can have access to them from Switzerland and it is a lot cheaper than using a pension scheme.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Cheers
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  #34  
Old 23.01.2012, 15:54
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Re: Transfer UK pension to QROPS in Switzerland after 5 UK tax years

From the HMRC website:
Policy objective
This measure will ensure a fairer tax system by making changes to the system of transfers of pension savings from registered pension schemes to QROPS. This will ensure that the system continues to be used for its intended purpose of allowing individuals who intend to leave the UK permanently to take their pension savings with them, free of UK tax,
to their new country of residence in order to continue saving to provide an income in their retirement.

So all these QROPS transfer spivs who are pushing Guernsey as the place to base your QROPS pension are actually exposing their clients to a 55% tax risk, should HRMC start asking for proof of residence ?
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  #35  
Old 23.01.2012, 20:07
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Re: Transfer UK pension to QROPS in Switzerland after 5 UK tax years

What they have been saying is that someone who moves their pension to Guernsey may have to pay Guernsey tax and then of course they may also have to pay tax in the jurisdiction they are resident in when they draw their pension, nightmare indeed!
It is really a sledgehammer to crack a nut approach by HMRC. They are trying to combat the pension busting that was occurring in NZ but have come at things with a whirlwind approach.
There will likely be an agreement made with the Guernsey tax authorities because as far as i know they have been the ones keeping to the guidelines as laid out by HMRC and haven't done anything untoward.
Many of these bills do indeed send the IFA's scurrying but they very often finish up nothing like they started.
Time will tell i guess....
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Old 23.01.2012, 21:58
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Re: Transfer UK pension to QROPS in Switzerland after 5 UK tax years

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To the fellow who wanted to invest on the NASDAQ, why don't you open up an online trading account such as Charles Schwab or TD Ameritrade. I believe you can have access to them from Switzerland and it is a lot cheaper than using a pension scheme.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Cheers
Hi, I have an account with both, I just want to use my UK pension fund as well.
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  #37  
Old 23.01.2012, 22:04
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Re: Transfer UK pension to QROPS in Switzerland after 5 UK tax years

From here :

Most significant of all is a new rule requiring pensioners who are not resident in the jurisdiction where their QROPS funds are administered to be taxed at the same rate as residents of that jurisdiction.

This clause appears to be aimed squarely at Guernsey, and to some extent the Isle of Man, whose financial services industries market QROPS products to non-residents on the basis that their pension payments are made free of tax.
The new Finance Bill clause means that these jurisdictions will either have to tax QROPS pension payments to non-residents, or stop taxing their own residents' pensions. The only exception will be if the pension recipient is living in a jurisdiction that has a double taxation treaty with the QROPS provider's jurisdiction.


So if I had already transfered my pension over to Guernsey, or was about to, I'd be extremely worried.
What will undoubtedly happen is this will kill the QROPS dodgy pension providors, by kill I mean no-one will bother to transfer their pension to Guernsey if the only benefit is IHT planning.

Therefore these dozens of tiny pension providors who have made a fat living on commision will see their revenue dry up and simply sell the policies/businesses to other pension providors and move onto the next scam.

I'd like to see the small print of what provision they have for this, however the one sure loser is going to be the policy holder if they can not get their cash out before April this year.
If they can get their cash out expect eye watering penalties and possibly a call from HRMC.

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  #38  
Old 24.01.2012, 12:33
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Re: Transfer UK pension to QROPS in Switzerland after 5 UK tax years

Guernsey appears to be a favourite with the beer company:
Quote:
Out of the above jurisdictions, a Guernsey QROPS is probably the best option as it offers the greatest flexibility.
Beers QROPS guide
But they seem to have found a way around the HM revenue problem by offering a savings plan with an official-sounding name that has been exclusively designed by themselves:
Quote:
...EURBS share a number of advantages with QROPS – but unlike them, will not be affected by the proposed changes announced last month to existing QROPS legislation by HM Revenue & Customs
Article by one of their reps

Last edited by Reb77Br; 24.01.2012 at 12:54.
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Old 24.01.2012, 13:37
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Re: Transfer UK pension to QROPS in Switzerland after 5 UK tax years

If there are major changes in regards to the QROPS laws in Guernsey the knock on effect could be a great number of people out of work within the financial services sector on the Island. If that were to happen i reckon the companies will then relocate to the likes of Malta and set up shop there.
In all honesty though with the financial clout of Guernsey i don't see the bill going through as originally planned.
Again, April will tell us all!
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  #40  
Old 24.01.2012, 15:23
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Re: Transfer UK pension to QROPS in Switzerland after 5 UK tax years

You say financial clout, but clout with whom?

The Channel Islands are a thorn in the side for UK Gov and HMRC.
Apparent tax havens in view of the mainland? It's embarrassing.

Let's not forget the Icelandic banking collapse, when UK Gov stepped in on the mainland and compensated Icesavers in full, and got Kaupthing absorbed, I think, by Santader. No saver on the mainland lost a penny.

The savers in Guernsey/IoM were left high and dry, nothing coming from Guernsey and not a penny from the UK, who clearly passed the message, "If you bank off shore, you're on your own"
Item number 7 here.

As for Malta, if anyone has ever been to Malta, they would have seen the Maltese can not even resurface a road, keep the place tidy, nor enforce planning laws. These are simply, evident things.
How on earth can the Maltese cope with the smoke and mirrors of the offshore financial industry who are bent on exploiting loopholes?
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