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  #41  
Old 24.01.2012, 15:41
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Re: Transfer UK pension to QROPS in Switzerland after 5 UK tax years

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If there are major changes in regards to the QROPS laws in Guernsey the knock on effect could be a great number of people out of work within the financial services sector on the Island. If that were to happen i reckon the companies will then relocate to the likes of Malta and set up shop there.
In all honesty though with the financial clout of Guernsey i don't see the bill going through as originally planned.
Again, April will tell us all!

I agree with you there the bill will not be passed this year, 2013 at the earliest
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  #42  
Old 24.01.2012, 16:03
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Re: Transfer UK pension to QROPS in Switzerland after 5 UK tax years

Pensions always interesting - of course the older you are the more so....
I was checking the numbers on my annual statement here in Switzerland , pillar 2. It would seem that I would have to draw a pension for 20 years before I even get back the cash that has been paid in.
That being the case I would take the cash , leave Switzerland , and live off the capital.
At 65 retirement is clear and you get the cash. What about 62 or 63? How do you confirm you will be self-employed to a Swiss provider if you are living elsewhere (EU). If I want to set up a boat storage company on a field in a distant rural location what then??
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  #43  
Old 24.01.2012, 16:12
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Re: Transfer UK pension to QROPS in Switzerland after 5 UK tax years

You can take retirememt at 60 & get the cash then, the 'pension payout is a joke IMHO' cash up front works for me!

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Pensions always interesting - of course the older you are the more so....
I was checking the numbers on my annual statement here in Switzerland , pillar 2. It would seem that I would have to draw a pension for 20 years before I even get back the cash that has been paid in.
That being the case I would take the cash , leave Switzerland , and live off the capital.
At 65 retirement is clear and you get the cash. What about 62 or 63? How do you confirm you will be self-employed to a Swiss provider if you are living elsewhere (EU). If I want to set up a boat storage company on a field in a distant rural location what then??
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  #44  
Old 24.01.2012, 21:03
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Re: Transfer UK pension to QROPS in Switzerland after 5 UK tax years

If you search on the HMRC website for QROPS you get a lot of hits.

If you search HMRC website for "European Union Retirement Benefits Schemes" you receive no hits that lead to EURBS.

If you use Google to search for
"European Union Retirement Benefits Schemes" AND HMRC

then you only hit The Beers advertising.

Seems HMRC are not recognising EURBS. That could cost you.
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  #45  
Old 30.01.2012, 12:52
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Re: Transfer UK pension to QROPS in Switzerland after 5 UK tax years

Promoting EURBS, QROPs, etc.
"...those living and working abroad, wherever they are in the world...have distinct benefits"
Advocating retirement planning for children (Huffington Post)
"...Green affirms that the risk of not teaching this ‘life skill’ would be to condemn “a whole generation to a poverty-stricken retirement"
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Last edited by Reb77Br; 30.01.2012 at 14:10.
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  #46  
Old 25.02.2012, 14:03
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Re: Transfer UK pension to QROPS in Switzerland after 5 UK tax years

I'm glad to have found this up to date thread as we are thinking we might transfer a personal pension from the UK to CH. We are here on a permenant contract and won't move probably until the children are through school (so 10 years). We don't know when nor where to we will retire. I understand the requirement to move the pension to a QROPS scheme, and we wouldn't really be looking to take out cash.
The question would be whether we could make further contributions to this when it is in the Swiss scheme, and is there a tax advantage to that? We don't really have a big enough pension pot yet, and we can't contribute in the UK as we're not resident and haven't been for 9 years. We think it might be a good idea to transfer now before sterling drops even more and because Switzerland seems a better longterm bet for a stable currency/economy, making your money work for you. Will it probably be better to draw a pension in CHF than s?

We did briefly talk to a pensions advisor but a quick search made us realise they were a bunch of shysters - one of the 'those who cannot be named'
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  #47  
Old 25.02.2012, 17:38
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Re: Transfer UK pension to QROPS in Switzerland after 5 UK tax years

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I'm glad to have found this up to date thread as we are thinking we might transfer a personal pension from the UK to CH. We are here on a permenant contract and won't move probably until the children are through school (so 10 years). We don't know when nor where to we will retire. I understand the requirement to move the pension to a QROPS scheme, and we wouldn't really be looking to take out cash.
The question would be whether we could make further contributions to this when it is in the Swiss scheme, and is there a tax advantage to that? We don't really have a big enough pension pot yet, and we can't contribute in the UK as we're not resident and haven't been for 9 years. We think it might be a good idea to transfer now before sterling drops even more and because Switzerland seems a better longterm bet for a stable currency/economy, making your money work for you. Will it probably be better to draw a pension in CHF than s?

We did briefly talk to a pensions advisor but a quick search made us realise they were a bunch of shysters - one of the 'those who cannot be named'
Sounds like you want to sell at the bottom! Interestingly just before the SNB intervention loads of people wanted to change for CHF.
A uk pension is likely to be far more widely invested than a CH one so has the liklehood of growing far more over time. Unless you will retire here your increasing your 'risk' putting all your eggs in CHF.
Had you done this 5 years ago, when the was strong & the CHF was weak it would have been a good idea, however you would not have wanted to as the & the UK economy was strong.
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  #48  
Old 26.02.2012, 09:29
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Re: Transfer UK pension to QROPS in Switzerland after 5 UK tax years

There's a lot of things we would have done four years ago when we moved here if we'd have known the UK economy and the was going to tank, but life in hindsight isn't possible. Interesting that you say that UK pensions are more widely invested - is that because the CH pension funds are more cautious?
My main concern is that we're only paying into the state pension and then the pillar 3a (which is only 6k or so a year). I hope the swiss state pension system is sound because if it turns out anything like the UK system we'll be retiring on a pittance.
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  #49  
Old 26.02.2012, 09:58
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Re: Transfer UK pension to QROPS in Switzerland after 5 UK tax years

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There's a lot of things we would have done four years ago when we moved here if we'd have known the UK economy and the was going to tank, but life in hindsight isn't possible. Interesting that you say that UK pensions are more widely invested - is that because the CH pension funds are more cautious?
My main concern is that we're only paying into the state pension and then the pillar 3a (which is only 6k or so a year). I hope the swiss state pension system is sound because if it turns out anything like the UK system we'll be retiring on a pittance.
Have you paid into the UK system for 30 years? If not you should pay voluntry contributions. There is talk of increasing the payout some 30% as it would be cheaper than administering 'means testing' for the extra benefit as most of the population already receive it.
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Old 19.06.2013, 19:13
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Re: Transfer UK pension to QROPS in Switzerland after 5 UK tax years

So what happened? I'm looking at moving a larger uk pension around 500k into a qrops in Switzerland so that I can access the cash, or re invest it, and avoid the annuity in the uk which is just dire. I think the death duties are worth thinking about also. What do you think I should do based on your experiences?
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  #51  
Old 19.06.2013, 20:55
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Re: Transfer UK pension to QROPS in Switzerland after 5 UK tax years

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So what happened? I'm looking at moving a larger uk pension around 500k into a qrops in Switzerland so that I can access the cash, or re invest it, and avoid the annuity in the uk which is just dire. I think the death duties are worth thinking about also. What do you think I should do based on your experiences?
Pictet won't gouge you with charges.
Be aware that if you 'pension bust' you will be liable to UK tax in excess of 50% the UK will be informed of any cash withdrawal for 10 years after the transfer. By transferring it you will still be liable to IHT on your world wide assets assuming you we're domiciled in the UK . It takes a minimum of 17 years to get out of their clutch, if you retain property your screwed.
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  #52  
Old 19.06.2013, 21:17
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Re: Transfer UK pension to QROPS in Switzerland after 5 UK tax years

Thanks fat man.. But I'm still confused.. My plan is to move the uk pension ( it's been sat there for 5 years while ive been out of country) to switz.. Leave it in the qrops account for something like another 8 years until I can take a distribution, but possibly draw it as cash as I am likely to be permanent in the USA by then... I've no intention of going back to uk. .. You say 10 years, but I heard it was 5... Thoughts?
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  #53  
Old 19.06.2013, 21:18
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Re: Transfer UK pension to QROPS in Switzerland after 5 UK tax years

Hi Seagrovers,
Can i ask you what you mean by the phrase "so i can access the cash" are you simply meaning that you can choose the investments or are you looking a redeeming part of your pension before pensionable age?
If the later then i would suggest you read this - http://www.prlog.org/12144137-hmrcs-...n-busting.html
You can disregard the unmentionables but HMRC is on a crusade right now in regards to those that are avoiding tax and it is only a matter of time before the put more of their emphasis on both QROPS and QNUPS.
You should also ask yourself if you are definitely not going to return to the UK. Yes a QROPS can be held by someone who has already transferred and then moves back to the UK but as to how it will be treated for tax purposes........well HMRC may decide it is foreign income and you may not get the full tax relief you would have if it was a UK registered scheme.
As far as i know i don't know of anyone who has transferred and now resides back in the UK so that area is a little unknown at the minute.
The other issue is if you do decide you wish to transfer you should really get a pension transfer analysis done before doing so.
This will allow you to see the critical yield - The critical yield shows you how much growth is required each year in order to match the value of the benefits that would have been available in your existing scheme.
Take your time before jumping in to this too many people jumped on the QROPS bandwagon a few years ago and now they realise it was the wrong choice as their future plans have changed.

If you have questions on the points i raised just let me know.

Cheers
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  #54  
Old 19.06.2013, 21:32
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Re: Transfer UK pension to QROPS in Switzerland after 5 UK tax years

Hi colpic.. I'm grateful for your insight.. My decision not to be based in the uk is pretty final, I'm a us perm resident now and we own property there and kids in school ... When I say take the cash, I really mean not be tied to an annuity when the grey days arrive.. I'd like to think I could move uk pension money from the restrictive uk system, put it in switz and then draw it out under Swiss rules, ie after 55 years of age.. The bit I am confused about, what are the rules for withdrawing qrops after the five years is up.. Can I take it out like a vested benefits fund as cash.. Or is it a pension product with restrictions..? Pensfree were helpful but I want to verify..
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Old 19.06.2013, 21:35
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Re: Transfer UK pension to QROPS in Switzerland after 5 UK tax years

Aha you are going to be a US resident long term? You will most likely take your pension there?
If that is the case you will have to be very careful about where you transfer your pension to as the IRS has some interesting opinions as to what a pension is under their eyes and you could find yourself getting taxed heavily on the US side when you take it.
As for IHT fatmanfilms is right if you have any ties left to the UK - property, bank accounts etc then you could become liable for IHT. The problem with IHT is that the UK tax the estate and some other countries tax the beneficiaries so depending where you end up and the availability of double taxation agreements your assets could end up being taxed twice

Here is the latest info from HMRC on QROPS - http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/news/draft-qrops-regs2013.htm
And a more shortened version - http://www.international-adviser.com...eporting-rules

Now these are only the first changes and i do predict there will be more to come. Registered QROPS will most likely have to report any major withdrawals throughout the term of the scheme and they will have to ensure they still fit the rules of what a registered QROPS is. This will involve the companies concerned going through a series of due diligence which will then be assessed by HMRC to ascertain whether the scheme is still an acceptable scheme.

All very messy i know
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  #56  
Old 19.06.2013, 21:49
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Re: Transfer UK pension to QROPS in Switzerland after 5 UK tax years

Messy indeed. I understand about the possible IRS opinion, that's the price of being in the good old USA, but I'm more concerned about having a chunk of my future retirement stuck in a rubbish annuity when I'd be better off spending it as draw down..or reinvesting it in a 401k or other investment vehicle here in Switzerland or the USA
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Old 19.06.2013, 23:21
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Re: Transfer UK pension to QROPS in Switzerland after 5 UK tax years

Why would you move your pension to Switzerland if you plan to live in the US?
If you are not resident here, that must muddy the waters. Then you are speculating on future currency exchange as well.
QROPS seems to be a moving target, HMRC are changing their minds month to month.

It was this year they de-listed 300 Gibraltar schemes without warning. (IIRC)

Surely there are US qrops options with big time bona fide outfits?

I can see why you'd want to get it out of the UK though.
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  #58  
Old 19.06.2013, 23:53
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Re: Transfer UK pension to QROPS in Switzerland after 5 UK tax years

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If you are not resident here, that must muddy the waters. Then you are speculating on future currency exchange as well.


I can see why you'd want to get it out of the UK though.
With a UK scheme you can invest very widely, so no need to speculate on future exchange rates.

Swiss pensions have rather limited investments, with rather more than 50% in CHF at best.
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Old 21.06.2013, 17:05
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Re: Transfer UK pension to QROPS in Switzerland after 5 UK tax years

I believe they delisted Guernsey schemes not Gibraltar schemes.
From memory, although i need to check, i believe Malta is the favoured destination for QROPS if the person is heading to the USA to retire. I think they have a set up which is agreeable by the IRS and it is not taxed as direct foreign income but as a true pension.
You are right about getting out of the UK schemes, especially if you have a pension with BT, British Airways Glaxo etc.
Quantitative easing has hammered the FTSE 100 companies and especially those with final salary schemes.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/0...92A0VK20130311

Just to add insult to injury they reckon you would have to sell the UK one and a half times over just to fill the public pension debt!
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Old 21.06.2013, 19:05
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Re: Transfer UK pension to QROPS in Switzerland after 5 UK tax years

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I believe they delisted Guernsey schemes not Gibraltar schemes.
From memory, although i need to check, i believe Malta is the favoured destination for QROPS if the person is heading to the USA to retire. I think they have a set up which is agreeable by the IRS and it is not taxed as direct foreign income but as a true pension.
You are right about getting out of the UK schemes, especially if you have a pension with BT, British Airways Glaxo etc.
Quantitative easing has hammered the FTSE 100 companies and especially those with final salary schemes.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/0...92A0VK20130311

Just to add insult to injury they reckon you would have to sell the UK one and a half times over just to fill the public pension debt!
Malta only allows 25% cash with 75% annuity, a Swiss QROPS allows for 100% cash benefit, which is the reason I favor a Swiss QROPS .
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