Hi,

Unfortunately I lost a decent amount of money in Forex when the Euro dropped to 1.00 CHF (although it was just for a few seconds). I am now preparing my tax declaration and I am looking for a way to write these losses as expenses so that my taxes are lower.

Does anyone know if that's possible and if yes, how?

Thanks.

Lol of the day goes to you sir!

Sorry but no such thing exists, currency fluctuations are not tax deductible.

Forex is not just currency fluctuations. It's more like stock winnings.

In some countries stock winning is taxed. However I suppose losses are not removed from your income. Additionally in Switzerland stock winnings are not taxed but you know, hope dies last

I'm aware what Forex is

Depending on what you were doing, it can be reduced to a bet at best (Spread betting), or a straight out currency exchange that went against you. Your taxes are worked out on the value in Swiss Franks on the 31st of December.

Another example if you want to compare it to stocks, if you buy company A's shares and Company A goes bankrupt, the loss is not tax deductible.

If you want to compare it to a bet, if you buy a lottery ticket, the loss is not tax deductible but that winnings are taxable.

It's a tough life living in Switzerland...

Actually I think a win on the stock market is not taxable in Switzerland (never won more than a couple of bucks, so don't know exactly). But in other countries, Germany for example, it's exactly as you write it. I wanna change my profession to being a "government"

I never said a win (aka capital gains) on stocks is taxable. it is indeed not taxable in Switzerland, the only thing you pay is wealth tax on the value on the 31st of December.

Edit: tax free allowance of 100k swissies is in place for wealth tax I think.

I am married, so it's even higher I think. Not rich enough to care about it ;-)

However people in Switzerland always say that you should pay about one monthly salary as taxes, usually the 13th salary which makes about 7-8% of the income. Together with my wife we pay over 15% which is twice more. I don't know where we are wrong.

Last year we checked with a person who knows how to fill in tax declarations (not part of a professional company though) but she could not tell us anything more than what we already knew. I am now thinking if it's worth paying a professional a couple of hundred bucks to have a look at the declaration and tell me "yeah, that's the situation" or if they can change something.

as long as you're not treated like a currency-trader there is no way to deduct any losses. On the other hand, capital gains are not taxable, too.

I haven't looked into this fully, but there is a thread knocking about here somewhere about a Tax disadvantage for married people. If you file together and you are both working, you will fall under a different bracket compared to what you would pay if you filed seperately. I will paste the link if I find it.

Edit: a more recent thread

here is a link that talks about it a little bit.

and a quick search brings back more.

Yeah, I know about that. We even get a deduction of about 5k because of that but it does not compensate at all. I think there are some organizations trying to change that but it won't happen in the next couple of years.

You aren't doing anything wrong... you should come to the Socialist Republic of Geneva and enjoy 25-30% taxation. Now that is wrong.

It's interesting that people consider Switzerland a tax heaven when taxes for the middle class are actually higher than in a lot of other (sometimes more social) countries. Only the really rich enjoy the tax heaven. There was an article how to save taxes if you are a high earner, with an example of somebody earning 2 million and paying taxes for 0 (yeah, that's zero).

Actually even under a lump sum taxation you always pay something. It may work out to an actual rate close to 0 but it is never 0.

Ah, I forgot to mention that in our little Socialist Republic we also pay twice the ZH health insurance rate. And twice the road tax rate. Tax heaven ? :banghead:

It was not based on the lump sum taxation. It was deducting the costs of renovating your three houses to keep them at "the same level of standard" and other tricks like that.

Have you already packed and headed for Zug?

You seem to be asking a lot of questions so quickly:

1) Value your positions at year end at the bank midrate. If there is currency move - your position will rise or fall. That is life. That is the currency market

2) Depending on the Kanton the tax curve can be quite steep when it rises from the low earner level to the high level earner. In Kanton Zurich I think this is between 150-450k per year. 15% isn't all that bad.

3) If you own a property you are allowed to deduct 20% of the rentable value as non-specified costs (IE you don't have to itemise) - alternatively you can submit costs individually - listed with the price. It is also worth including the approximate age of what was being replaced. If you buy a property and then fully renovate to the original standard you have a very big deduction.

In some countries the loss on investments can be written off against gains on investments. This is allowed in the US but there, as far as I know, you can't claim an investment loss that is greater than your reported gains.

The losses and gains have to be actual, meaning a loss on closing out a position or selling a stock. If the assets remain on the books and would have a loss or gain IF they were closed it doesn't count.

By the way, gambling losses (including lottery tickets) can be claimed in the same way against any gambling wins, but you have to have really good documentation. I know this for fact as I am a poker player and do have to this as additional income on my taxes.

I suspect this may be what the OP was asking about for his Swiss taxes

Thanks for the explanation.