|  | | | 
04.04.2012, 09:58
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: ZRH
Posts: 5,189
Groaned at 215 Times in 152 Posts
Thanked 3,837 Times in 2,097 Posts
| | | Tax for winning a bet
If two people had a wager of CHF 100,000. One person loses the bet, and forks over the money to the other. Who is liable for taxes, and what is the tax rate based on?
| 
04.04.2012, 10:05
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Murten - Morat
Posts: 4,560
Groaned at 154 Times in 95 Posts
Thanked 3,884 Times in 1,969 Posts
| | | Re: Tax for winning a bet
Are you studying law? There is a tax on gambling in the UK: the person paying the wager pays the tax in the UK and in some Swiss Cantons, Geneva is one. In Switzerland the winner pays the tax.
| 
04.04.2012, 10:06
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: May 2008 Location: From one side of lake Zurich to the other...
Posts: 4,572
Groaned at 18 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 3,218 Times in 1,606 Posts
| | | Re: Tax for winning a bet
You may find that such betting is illegal. Gambling is a licenced activity...
| | This user would like to thank swisspea for this useful post: | | 
04.04.2012, 10:42
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Lac Léman
Posts: 951
Groaned at 39 Times in 25 Posts
Thanked 705 Times in 312 Posts
| | | Re: Tax for winning a bet
Is this hypothetical? If not, what was the bet? | 
04.04.2012, 10:46
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: ZRH
Posts: 5,189
Groaned at 215 Times in 152 Posts
Thanked 3,837 Times in 2,097 Posts
| | | Re: Tax for winning a bet | Quote: | |  | | | Is this hypothetical? If not, what was the bet?  | | | | | No, I'm trying to figure the ideal way to transfer a lump sum of money from one person to another.
| 
04.04.2012, 10:49
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Lac Léman
Posts: 951
Groaned at 39 Times in 25 Posts
Thanked 705 Times in 312 Posts
| | | Re: Tax for winning a bet | Quote: | |  | | | No, I'm trying to figure the ideal way to transfer a lump sum of money from one person to another. | | | | | Hm, well we can practice with my account and go from there. If it takes a few tries, so be it.
Edit. Sorry, carry on with any serious replies...
Last edited by M. Ploymi; 04.04.2012 at 10:50.
Reason: apology
| | This user would like to thank M. Ploymi for this useful post: | | 
04.04.2012, 10:51
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Lugano
Posts: 8,240
Groaned at 284 Times in 242 Posts
Thanked 6,915 Times in 3,605 Posts
| | | Re: Tax for winning a bet | Quote: | |  | | | No, I'm trying to figure the ideal way to transfer a lump sum of money from one person to another. | | | | | Relative? If so, what level?
Otherwise, large denomination notes in an envelope.
Alternative, purchase some used object from them, no VAT or other tax in this case.
Tom
| | This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post: | | 
04.04.2012, 10:52
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Murten - Morat
Posts: 4,560
Groaned at 154 Times in 95 Posts
Thanked 3,884 Times in 1,969 Posts
| | | Re: Tax for winning a bet
In British law it is tax free if the gift has no commercial value. So ideally you should buy her some made to measure clothes, or a non-refundable subscription to the fitness.
| 
04.04.2012, 10:59
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: ZRH
Posts: 5,189
Groaned at 215 Times in 152 Posts
Thanked 3,837 Times in 2,097 Posts
| | | Re: Tax for winning a bet | Quote: | |  | | | Relative? If so, what level?
Otherwise, large denomination notes in an envelope.
Alternative, purchase some used object from them, no VAT or other tax in this case.
Tom | | | | |
What if it was across borders, say one of them is in the US or UK?
| 
04.04.2012, 11:07
| | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,754
Groaned at 34 Times in 25 Posts
Thanked 2,661 Times in 978 Posts
| | | Re: Tax for winning a bet
What was the bet about? Just curious.
| 
04.04.2012, 11:08
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: ZRH
Posts: 5,189
Groaned at 215 Times in 152 Posts
Thanked 3,837 Times in 2,097 Posts
| | | Re: Tax for winning a bet | Quote: | |  | | | What was the bet about? Just curious. | | | | | No actual bet. Just hypothetical.
| 
04.04.2012, 11:10
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Zug, CH
Posts: 1,730
Groaned at 91 Times in 69 Posts
Thanked 2,596 Times in 960 Posts
| | | Re: Tax for winning a bet | Quote: | |  | | | What if it was across borders, say one of them is in the US or UK? | | | | | In the US, the receiving party will be required to report it as taxable income, though as mentioned, gambling is a regulated activity and - I've no idea - it may not be legal to gamble 100k privately. Up to 10k per year can be transferred tax free as a gift within family according to a tax attorney I once spoke with in Wisconsin.
| | The following 2 users would like to thank Corbets for this useful post: | | 
04.04.2012, 11:54
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: ZRH
Posts: 5,189
Groaned at 215 Times in 152 Posts
Thanked 3,837 Times in 2,097 Posts
| | | Re: Tax for winning a bet | Quote: | |  | | | In the US, the receiving party will be required to report it as taxable income, though as mentioned, gambling is a regulated activity and - I've no idea - it may not be legal to gamble 100k privately. Up to 10k per year can be transferred tax free as a gift within family according to a tax attorney I once spoke with in Wisconsin. | | | | | Right. I was aware of the 10-15K limit, which is why I purposely posed this as 100,000.
I know that typically in the US, the giver is taxed and the recipient is not. In Switzerland, I was wonder if the gift is considered taxable income for the recipient.
| 
04.04.2012, 13:25
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,510
Groaned at 27 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 1,229 Times in 524 Posts
| | | Re: Tax for winning a bet | Quote: | |  | | | Right. I was aware of the 10-15K limit, which is why I purposely posed this as 100,000.
I know that typically in the US, the giver is taxed and the recipient is not. In Switzerland, I was wonder if the gift is considered taxable income for the recipient. | | | | | In Zurich, you can receive a gift from family tax free, in the same way that inheritance is untaxed, if the person giving it is outside Kt ZRH.
The other way around I'm not sure, sorry.
| 
04.04.2012, 14:11
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: ZRH
Posts: 5,189
Groaned at 215 Times in 152 Posts
Thanked 3,837 Times in 2,097 Posts
| | | Re: Tax for winning a bet
What if the gift isn't from family? What if it is from a friend?
| 
04.04.2012, 14:20
| | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Geneva
Posts: 5,444
Groaned at 122 Times in 108 Posts
Thanked 3,120 Times in 1,633 Posts
| | | Re: Tax for winning a bet | Quote: | |  | | | What if the gift isn't from family? What if it is from a friend? | | | | | In general gifts are taxed according to the proximity you have with the donor.
ie 1st degree relatives no tax / minimal tax
2nd degree minimal tax
the highest level is where there is no family link between the donor and the receiver
Geneva for instance has 5 degrees - you then have to figure out how these degrees are quantified in your canton of residence, but that's the working principle.
| | The following 2 users would like to thank Shorrick Mk2 for this useful post: | | 
04.04.2012, 16:16
| | Member | | Join Date: May 2011 Location: Lausanne
Posts: 158
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 60 Times in 36 Posts
| | | Re: Tax for winning a bet | Quote: | |  | | | In the US, the receiving party will be required to report it as taxable income, though as mentioned, gambling is a regulated activity and - I've no idea - it may not be legal to gamble 100k privately. Up to 10k per year can be transferred tax free as a gift within family according to a tax attorney I once spoke with in Wisconsin. | | | | | You are right about the 10K rule. I know of one elderly woman in the USA who gives 10K per year to each one of her 4 kids. It is my understanding that nobody has to declare anything, nobody has to pay any tax.
I am puzzled about the 10K limit. What happens if she gives 40K to child A, then child A gives 30K to child B, then child B gives 20K to child C, then child C gives 10K to child D? It appears that in the end each child has received 10K. But wait! Child A has to pay tax on the 30K excess, child B has to pay tax on the 20K excess and child C has to pay tax on the 10K excess? | 
04.04.2012, 16:21
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Basel
Posts: 2,772
Groaned at 150 Times in 92 Posts
Thanked 3,363 Times in 1,524 Posts
| | | Re: Tax for winning a bet
To my amazement, I actually know the answer to that question for Basel Stadt. Between two private persons, it's a gift. You have to put the sum in the little square for gifts in your tax declaration.
| 
04.04.2012, 16:23
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: ZRH
Posts: 5,189
Groaned at 215 Times in 152 Posts
Thanked 3,837 Times in 2,097 Posts
| | | Re: Tax for winning a bet | Quote: | |  | | | To my amazement, I actually know the answer to that question for Basel Stadt. Between two private persons, it's a gift. You have to put the sum in the little square for gifts in your tax declaration. | | | | | Yes, of course. I think I knew too. Perhaps I was just looking for a way to avoid it, legally of course.
| 
04.04.2012, 16:25
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Somewhere in SG
Posts: 1,703
Groaned at 9 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 1,289 Times in 665 Posts
| | | Re: Tax for winning a bet
I think there is a bit of misinformation here. I believe that in the case of a US person receiving US$, they can receive as much as the giver gives, but the donor (giver) has to take care of the taxes. Right now, the amount tax free is $13,000.
from the IRS website FAQs on gift taxes:
Who pays the gift tax? The donor is generally responsible for paying the gift tax. Under special arrangements the donee may agree to pay the tax instead. Please visit with your tax professional if you are considering this type of arrangement. here is the source
but this is probably a moot point if both parties are here in CH?
| | The following 2 users would like to thank drmom for this useful post: | | |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | | | | Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes | Linear Mode |
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts HTML code is Off | | | All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:17. | |