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02.07.2012, 18:29
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Zurich
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| | | Re: Financial Services - A warning | Quote: | |  | | | I have had so many calls from deVere it's not even funny. Each time I tell them calmly that they reduce their credibility each time that they cold call me (to which they responded...."this isn't a cold call as we're not trying to sell anything"...em right....someone needs to find a dictionary methinks!).
They can keep calling me if they like as I will never agree to meet with them and it sometimes provides a wee 5 minute distraction from work 
Would be interested to hear about this Swiss Data Protection thing as well though. Always interested in getting a new string to my bow  | | | | | agree to meet them in a really out of the way location, then don't show up. keep repeating for as long as they keep calling | | The following 2 users would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post: | | 
02.07.2012, 19:48
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Switzerland
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| | | Re: Financial Services - A warning
These calls are geared towards Expats. I do not know any Swiss citizens who receive these types of phone calls, as far as I know of. I have NEVER received such calls.
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02.07.2012, 19:51
| | Senior Member | | Join Date: May 2007 Location: Geneva
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| | | Re: Financial Services - A warning | Quote: | |  | | | to which they responded...."this isn't a cold call as we're not trying to sell anything" | | | | | Sounds like this: | Quote: |  | | | | | | | | | | This user would like to thank Reb77Br for this useful post: | | 
03.07.2012, 01:02
| | Newbie | | Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Zurich
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| | | Re: Financial Services - A warning | Quote: | |  | | | Great stuff! What's the procedure for doing that? | | | | | In short: just send them a letter asking for the information. You will have to add a copy of your passport to prove your identity.
Long version:
You have a right to request information on any data concerning you based on article 8 of the "Federal Act on Data Protection" http://www.admin.ch/ch/e/rs/235_1/a8.html. They (generally) cannot charge you for providing this information, either.
You will have to state your request in writing and prove your identity (attach a copy of your passport) according to article 1 of the "Ordinance to the Federal Act on Data Protection" http://www.admin.ch/ch/e/rs/235_11/a1.html. In order to comply, they need to provide the information within 30 days or explain why they are unable to do so.
Fun fact: If they don't comply, they're liable to a fine ( http://www.admin.ch/ch/e/rs/235_1/a34.html).
The website of the Federal Data Protection and Information Commissioner has some templates for such letters at http://www.edoeb.admin.ch/dokumentat...x.html?lang=de (not available in English, unfortunately). This template includes a request for information and the removal of all data concerning you: http://www.edoeb.admin.ch/dokumentat..._JjKbNoKSn6A--
Hope that helps | | The following 3 users would like to thank Ill-Phil for this useful post: | | 
03.07.2012, 12:03
|  | Thick Northern Mod | | Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Basel - So good they (sort of)
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| | | Re: Financial Services - A warning | Quote: | |  | | | You will have to add a copy of your passport to prove your identity. | | | | |
If they abuse my telephone number...
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13.07.2012, 17:25
| | Senior Member | | Join Date: May 2007 Location: Geneva
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| | | Re: Financial Services - A warning
Looking for staff for Geneva: | Quote: |  | | | | | | | | | Quote: |  | | | Contact person Cl*ve J*nes "Our client base is expanding across the world and in order to keep up with this expansion the deVere Group requires a number of consultants to stick with our continued expansion plans." | | | | | | Quote: |  | | | had a ring earlier today 16th Feb 2010 with Dev*re Group ref: Job Offer. 02072454429 (ch*rlotte Lew*s). requested 'em for a returned ring as we needed more information. ended up leaving msg with a cell as We are engaged checking 'em out: Cl*ve J*nes . do not grasp why these people rang me, as we have no product knowledge about Investment, Stock, Shares for a Job Role, particularly for Abroad. http://callerr.com/02072454429 | | | | | | 
13.07.2012, 17:46
| | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Geneva
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| | | Re: Financial Services - A warning | Quote: | |  | | | Looking for staff for Geneva: | | | | | I don't dare apply to that! I am sure the RAV would want me to take a job in Geneva....
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13.07.2012, 20:17
| | Member | | Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Basel
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| | | Re: Financial Services - A warning
Now is not the time to invest in the financial markets - the rule of law is breaking down, and if the MF Global (or more recent PFG) incident didn't scream "Don't even think about it!" loudly enough, then you are a fool. (And you know what they say about fools and their money, don't you?) Ann Barnhardt ran a commodities brokerage. She closed down her business, because in her view, client funds are no longer safe. Her decision to wind up operations was a moral choice - not a financial one. I do not know of many people in the financial services industry who would choose to put their customers' interests ahead of their own, even when the price is high. However, I think her actions speak more loudly than any words I could utter or write.
Incidentally, I got a call from one firm called Milton Hayward, wanting to know if I was interested in investing in a portfolio. I found it noteworthy that the guy gave up with the sales spiel - and immediately hung up on me - when I said "I'm keeping my assets liquid for now - strictly M0 and no higher - and I'm waiting for the markets to crash before I invest in anything."
| | This user would like to thank Oliver Jones for this useful post: | | 
13.07.2012, 21:36
| | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Geneva
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| | | Re: Financial Services - A warning | Quote: | |  | | | Now is not the time to invest in the financial markets - the rule of law is breaking down, and if the MF Global (or more recent PFG) incident didn't scream "Don't even think about it!" loudly enough, then you are a fool. (And you know what they say about fools and their money, don't you?)
." | | | | | The risk of not being invested is also huge, market timing is a difficult game to play. If you only invest when the sun shines you will likely loose more, but will be comfortable when you make your investment.
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13.07.2012, 23:19
| | Senior Member | | Join Date: May 2007 Location: Geneva
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| | | Re: Financial Services - A warning | Quote: | |  | | | Incidentally, I got a call from one firm called Milton Hayward, wanting to know if I was interested in investing in a portfolio. | | | | | | Quote: |  | | | Milton Hayward. This scammer is actually the name of a company. In fact their are several people involved in this scam of which all names I will mention next. Milton Hayward are basically stock scammers based out of China looking to sell people bad investments. You can read more about Milton Hayward here. Other scammers that are associated with Milton Hayward are John Hayward, Dave Basset, John Cannon, Mark Harvey, and Micheal Gellard. http://stumbleforward.com/2009/10/09...nown-scammers/ | | | | | Boiler room scam | 
17.07.2012, 12:24
|  | Senior Member | | Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: ex-CH-8058 Now in the Sandpit
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| | | Re: Financial Services - A warning | Quote: | |  | | | These calls are geared towards Expats. I do not know any Swiss citizens who receive these types of phone calls, as far as I know of. I have NEVER received such calls. | | | | | What disturbs me with threads like this is that alleged British scammers are operating in Switzerland allegedly scamming British people.
Motto: never trust a Brit?
Dear Mods - I hope you enjoy my use of the legal word "allegedly" 
My gut feeling is that the pyramid is starting to fall and the alleged scammers no longer have the financial resources to threaten Forums like this.
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17.07.2012, 12:59
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: May 2010 Location: In the kitchen at parties.
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| | | Re: Financial Services - A warning | Quote: | |  | | | Dear Mods - I hope you enjoy my use of the legal word "allegedly"
My gut feeling is that the pyramid is starting to fall and the alleged scammers no longer have the financial resources to threaten Forums like this. | | | | | ...but I hear allegedly you yourself run a similiar scheme and are just trying to bad mouth your competition. That also you profit quite nicely from referrals etc...allegedly of course.
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17.07.2012, 13:02
|  | Senior Member | | Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: ex-CH-8058 Now in the Sandpit
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| | | Re: Financial Services - A warning | Quote: | |  | | | ...but I hear allegedly you yourself run a similiar scheme and are just trying to bad mouth your competition. That also you profit quite nicely from referrals etc...allegedly of course. | | | | | ?? No. I fix aircraft. You got the wrong person.
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17.07.2012, 13:27
| | Senior Member | | Join Date: May 2007 Location: Geneva
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| | | Re: Financial Services - A warning | Quote: | |  | | | Motto: never trust a Brit?  | | | | | They also employ/employed other English-speaking nationals. South Africans, for example.
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17.07.2012, 13:29
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: May 2010 Location: In the kitchen at parties.
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| | | Re: Financial Services - A warning | Quote: | |  | | | ?? No. I fix aircraft. You got the wrong person. | | | | |
Well, that's allegations for you...
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17.07.2012, 13:33
| | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Richterswil
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| | | Re: Financial Services - A warning | Quote: | |  | | | The risk of not being invested is also huge, market timing is a difficult game to play. If you only invest when the sun shines you will likely loose more, but will be comfortable when you make your investment. | | | | | Correct. Investing ought to be a long term activity, such that market timing is irrelevant. For the record, long term after inflation returns clearly favour stocks at around 6 percent.* If you leave your money in the bank, you are actually losing money as inflation erodes the value of your savings. In terms of long term average historical returns, it is quite simple. Stocks, bonds then cash in that order. So you really ought to consider investing in stocks if you want to increase your return on the long run.
You can diminish the risk of poor timing by regularly investing, or dollar/pound/franc/ cost averaging as it is called. This is general advice if you dont know what you are doing. Otherwise, you can time better by avoiding clearly overvalued markets etc. But you dont really need to know this.
*Study by Dimson Marsh Staunton in Triumph of the Optimists:
101 Years of Global Investment Returns
: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/7239.html
I have the exact figures for the rates of return if anyone is that interested, break down stocks into large caps and small caps IIRC, based on 26 capital markets. I studied this shiat for many years and FYI I am not looking for your business. | 
17.07.2012, 13:40
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| | | Re: Financial Services - A warning
I'm curious- to the OP whether you ended up cashing it out or continuing with the payments.
I got in the same mess myself; it took awhile for the alarm bells to finally go off, and when they did it was too late. I dealt directly with the insurance company (G*nerali) who of course reported that most of my money was gone in fees. After running the numbers from every possible angle it's clear that there is absolutely no reason to continue the payments. The best thing you can do is cancel the payments as soon as you can and get back whatever you can (it will be small)- which is what I ended up doing.
Also, the company who sold it to me was not the one mentioned earlier but a different one (which unfortunately didn't turn up anything negative on Google at that time), which has since changed names. They probably keep changing this stuff around all the time in order to try to look legitimate. So beware
Bottom line is nothing new but always worth repeating:
- hang up on / ignore financial cold callers
- READ THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS before you sign (anything in life)
- if you are in one of these things, you should seriously consider whether it makes sense to keep paying, and do it immediately before you lose another month's payment....
| | This user would like to thank Miller for this useful post: | | 
17.07.2012, 14:04
| | Senior Member | | Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Bern
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| | | Re: Financial Services - A warning
Well there are a few ways out of these Plans. If the plan is sold correctly it is a good plan, but compoanies like the beers add their won charges on to them which f**k you over.
For compliance reasons the RWL reason why letter, Risk profiler and financial factfind, should have all been signed by yourself, the advisor and the advisors boss if they werent you may be able to get out of the plans.
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17.07.2012, 14:05
| | Senior Member | | Join Date: May 2007 Location: Geneva
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| | | Re: Financial Services - A warning | Quote: | |  | | | The best thing you can do is cancel the payments as soon as you can and get back whatever you can (it will be small)- which is what I ended up doing. | | | | | Not necessarily small. The following sets a precedent: | Quote: |  | | | | | | | | Seems reasonable to expect nothing less than 100% reimbursement from the product providers, since the fact that they choose to pay scammers to sell their products makes them complicit in a scam. | Quote: |  | | | Don't just stop paying, go after the insurer to get money back! Don't bother complaining to the IFA company. Try what the other poster mentioned above said about fighting for their money back with the insurer. The insurers know the abuse that goes on with their sales force of IFAs (that's what they knowingly encourage with massive upfront commissions). Tell them you're going to write to your local regulators and media about the insurer and IFAs and tell them what happened - what you were promised and instead what you received. Tell your friends and colleagues what these companies are up to. http://boards.fool.co.uk/this-was-ad...?sort=postdate | | | | | | 
17.07.2012, 16:59
|  | Member | | Join Date: May 2012 Location: Schliengen, Germany
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| | | Re: Financial Services - A warning
A quick update from my side:
I sent a registered letter to Generali over 4 weeks ago saying that I wanted them to 1) remove deVere from my account immediately, as I am no longer receiving any kind of service from them, 2) stop charging the premiums against my credit card, and 3) provide information how I can terminate this service, as it was misrepresented when it was sold to me.
They acknowledged receipt of my letter, but I have not received any further information so far.
I somehow suspect that this will be landing on my lawyer's desk soon ...
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