Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Finance/banking/taxation
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 30.11.2007, 11:32
jenny's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: La Tour-de-Peilz (near Vevey)
Posts: 478
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 252 Times in 117 Posts
jenny has a reputation beyond reputejenny has a reputation beyond reputejenny has a reputation beyond reputejenny has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

If you live in the cantons of either Fribourg or Geneva, you can also deduct your 3b (though not as much as a 3a). 3bs give higher returns.

If you're independent (self-employed) you can deduct 30 odd thousand p.a.

For 3a's, some offer guaranteed rates, others don't.

You have to shop around!

If you actually re-read the Credit Suisse website, you'll see that you earn 7.5% AFTER 5 years which works out at 1.5% p.a. and NOT 7.5% p.a.!!!!

I work with Credit Suisse and a few people have asked me this as 7.5% for a 3a is huge! However, as always, you need to read the small print
__________________
Inswift Sàrl
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank jenny for this useful post:
  #22  
Old 30.11.2007, 11:33
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Luzern currently
Posts: 2,565
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 720 Times in 373 Posts
Richard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

Quote:
View Post
Is this a minimum return of 7.5% over 5 years? That's what it looks like to me.
Does anyone know how this compares with the Winterthur guaranteed rate? I can't seem to find this figure on the Winterthur website.

Thanks!
There is a slight difference here. The CS product is based on a 5 year term, whereas the Winterthur product is based on a till 65 term. ie until you retire. Thus comparisons are hard to make. What is interesting is that there is a minimum 1.5% return required on pension prodcuts and this product of CS's seems to be a tracker fund. ie directly linked to changes in the SMI. Given that the SMI over 5 years is likely to rise and that changes are based on half the increase (more or less) then it seems pretty reasonable but not outstanding. As far as I recall Winterthur has a similar structure but I also recall they are guaranteeing to give you back what you put in and are paying the real movement in the stock exchange limited by the pension requirements.

Pension requirements restrict funds to owning a maximum 50% of the fund value in equities. Given that as the equities rise in value they need to sell them this is a difficult thing to manage and it does cause limitations in earnings. So ignoring the Winterthur version, over 5 years with CS you are risking .09% of interest against a standard fund for a reasonable expectation to gain 4.4% ie 12% payout.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Richard for this useful post:
  #23  
Old 30.11.2007, 11:45
jenny's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: La Tour-de-Peilz (near Vevey)
Posts: 478
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 252 Times in 117 Posts
jenny has a reputation beyond reputejenny has a reputation beyond reputejenny has a reputation beyond reputejenny has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

1.5% is not really a lot.

You can do much better with other products that are guaranteed too...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank jenny for this useful post:
  #24  
Old 30.11.2007, 11:51
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Geneva
Posts: 5,531
Groaned at 125 Times in 110 Posts
Thanked 3,297 Times in 1,737 Posts
Shorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

Quote:
View Post
. What is interesting is that there is a minimum 1.5% return required on pension prodcuts and this product of CS's seems to be a tracker fund. ie directly linked to changes in the SMI.
That's interesting, since CS' annual return actually comes out below 1.5.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 30.11.2007, 13:22
Ian Nicol's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Higher Dukinfield. (Oberentfelden!)
Posts: 99
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 22 Times in 15 Posts
Ian Nicol has earned some respectIan Nicol has earned some respect
Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

Quote:
View Post
Okay, you might think this does not belong here but it does!

I just want to remind all those who might never have heard of this that if you have not yet done so, you need to register for a 3rd pillar pension fund now if you want contributions for year 2007 to be tax deductable.

I will also stick my neck right out and say that at the moment the best policy is with Winterthur... They are the only company out there at the moment giving a guaranteed return and if you are thinking of staying for a while that gives added security.

And if I put this in finance, banking and the like half of you won't read it hence the reminder here in daily life...


If you have not got a clue what I am talking about it might be a good idea to say so...

Hello Richard

Thank you very much for your useful post. I was recently advised to join a 3rd Pillar Pension Fund using a bank as opposed to an insurance company. Reasons being more transparent and flexibility.

I enquired at your favourite bank (Raiffeisen) and it seemed OK. I emptied my pensionkasse on buying a house and this leaves me obviously in the situation where i can take full advantage of a 3rd Pillar Pension Fund.

What do you class as being the major pros and cons between banks and insurance companies?

Could you send me some info on the Winterthur option.

Many thanks in advance!

Ian
__________________
I like pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals. Sir Winston Churchill
British politician (1874 - 1965)
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 02.12.2007, 20:57
cobenz's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: reinach
Posts: 61
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 48 Times in 14 Posts
cobenz is considered knowledgeablecobenz is considered knowledgeablecobenz is considered knowledgeable
Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

Quote:
View Post
I forgot to make my pay in last year. damn that hurt

but this year I'm going to compensate doubly for it. In Baselland in addition to the 3rd Pillar there's the Wohnsparen that allows you to pay in around 12000.-- tax deductible into a "Wohnsparplan" so I'll end up with almost 19000.-- less taxable income

there's a popular initiative running to allow all cantons to do that but I guess that will still take some years (even if it is approved by the sovereign).

Hi Suermel,

Can you explain the wohnsparen please ? how do you get to do this tax deduction ?

rgds,
Cobenz
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 04.12.2007, 10:18
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Luzern currently
Posts: 2,565
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 720 Times in 373 Posts
Richard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

Quote:
View Post
Hello Richard

Thank you very much for your useful post. I was recently advised to join a 3rd Pillar Pension Fund using a bank as opposed to an insurance company. Reasons being more transparent and flexibility.

I enquired at your favourite bank (Raiffeisen) and it seemed OK. I emptied my pensionkasse on buying a house and this leaves me obviously in the situation where i can take full advantage of a 3rd Pillar Pension Fund.

What do you class as being the major pros and cons between banks and insurance companies?

Could you send me some info on the Winterthur option.

Many thanks in advance!

Ian
The law restricting investment risk applies to all policies and this restricts investment in equities to 50% of the fund value.
Banks provide you almost always with straight investment and maybe a little insurance cover. Insurance companies provide you investment with insurance. The insurance might be a small life policy part or it might be some kind of investment loss cover, but there will always be an insurance element. End effect is that not 100% of the premiums are paid into an insurance policy whereas with a bank they are. Hence often the returns from a bank are potentially higher but provide little cover within the policy.
For the winterthur option I only have it physically and in German... They normally (typical insurance company) want to talk to you about it... On their website you can find information but it always says for further information contact an advisor...
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 04.12.2007, 10:48
kri's Avatar
kri kri is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,030
Groaned at 9 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 647 Times in 366 Posts
kri has a reputation beyond reputekri has a reputation beyond reputekri has a reputation beyond reputekri has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

Quote:
View Post
I emptied my pensionkasse on buying a house and this leaves me obviously in the situation where i can take full advantage of a 3rd Pillar Pension Fund.
Hello!

I guess you may know already but... once you use your second pillar to buy a house, you can "fill it up" again in the years later. details arein your pension plan rules. This has the benefit to have a full pension plan. It is also tax deductible and you can put in whatever amount (no limits like with the third pillar.

I f I were you, I would first reconsruct your pension plan and then go to third pillar.

Cheers,
Cristina
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 04.12.2007, 11:01
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Luzern currently
Posts: 2,565
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 720 Times in 373 Posts
Richard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

Quote:
View Post
Hello!

I guess you may know already but... once you use your second pillar to buy a house, you can "fill it up" again in the years later. details arein your pension plan rules. This has the benefit to have a full pension plan. It is also tax deductible and you can put in whatever amount (no limits like with the third pillar.

I f I were you, I would first reconsruct your pension plan and then go to third pillar.

Cheers,
Cristina
Two points here. There are limits on the amount you can repay into a depleted pension fund and the third pillar should be filled first as the right to fill this occurs only during the calendar year whereas the right to fill your second pillar carries over to future years. The limit on the amount you can repay into a depleted pension fund is dependent on your income. It is not possible to make a tax return with a negative taxable income, indeed the tax office will disallow deductions into the pension fund if the amount paid in is deemed by them to be unreasonable. For this reason if the amount you intend to repay is large in comparison to your taxable income you must gain approval from the local tax office.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 09.12.2007, 18:43
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: near Zurich
Posts: 7
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
SwissBirdie has no particular reputation at present
Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

Isn't it that with the insurance option you have to pay in every year (and if you want to stop it you had to do a buy-out?) whereas with the banking option you can decide every year whether you pay in or not? I think it depends on your personal situation whether you go for the insurance option with protection (ie you have dependants, a steady job etc) or the banking option.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 09.12.2007, 20:57
stuartq's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: London/Vaud
Posts: 170
Groaned at 2 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 20 Times in 19 Posts
stuartq has no particular reputation at present
Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

Does anyone know if it is possible to transfer a UK pension into a Swiss pension scheme?
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 03.01.2008, 19:47
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Luzern
Posts: 88
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 38 Times in 25 Posts
bytheseaside has earned some respectbytheseaside has earned some respect
Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

Quote:
View Post
Does anyone know if it is possible to transfer a UK pension into a Swiss pension scheme?
There´s been some other threads addressing this. I also have a contracted-out pension fund which I wanted to move over, but there is a bit of red tape in so far that certain documents need to be translated for the recipient fund, certification of being a recognised pension body etc. In the end, and since the UK private pension fund reforms over the last few years, I decided that I will leave alone as fund is performing well, and all shortfalls have been eliminated meaning very little risk.

Use the search function, it´s there somewhere.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 03.01.2008, 19:50
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Luzern
Posts: 88
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 38 Times in 25 Posts
bytheseaside has earned some respectbytheseaside has earned some respect
Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

The Bank Brienz Oberhasli is offering 3.0% on a 3A account. This is 0.75% more than current Migrosbank & Coop rates.

On a non fund-linked 3A, are total contributions paid-in safeguarded by law? For 3%, it would make sense to move all my contributions to date over, but are there some risks involved in dealing with a less well known bank?
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 13.01.2008, 14:47
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Thalwil
Posts: 11
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
bjrock_99 has no particular reputation at present
Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

I just started working for a company in Zug on January 3rd. Can I enroll in a pillar 3a for 2008 and still get the tax benefits or do I have to wait until the end of 2008 to enroll for 2009?

thanks
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 13.01.2008, 16:43
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
alvis has no particular reputation at present
Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

Hi,

a slightly different question about claiming back taxes on 3rd pillar for people taxed at source (like me) - I have searched through the various threads but could not find the answer.

I am trying to understand what is the optimal way to pay in the 3rd pillar to save taxes. Quellesteuer are withheld monthly and are calculated on the monthly taxable income (differently from people filing a tax declaration which pay on their yearly income). This system is particularly disadvantageous for people which do not have a regular income flow throughout the year. In particular lump sum paid once a year (e.g. bonus) is heavily taxed - the quellessteuer tax rate for that month will be much higher than in other months.

Now, I was wondering, are also the taxes claimed back on the third pillar calculated on a monthly basis for people taxed at source? If this is so, it is probably much better to pay the max amount (the 6600 chf) on the month when the bonus is paid in order to offset the higher taxable income and lower the rate.

If it not so, does anyone know how the amount of claimed back taxes is calculated?

Thanks a lot.

Alvise
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 13.01.2008, 17:01
gbn's Avatar
gbn gbn is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kloten
Posts: 1,959
Groaned at 66 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 847 Times in 486 Posts
gbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

Quote:
View Post
Hi,

a slightly different question about claiming back taxes on 3rd pillar for people taxed at source (like me) - I have searched through the various threads but could not find the answer.

I am trying to understand what is the optimal way to pay in the 3rd pillar to save taxes. Quellesteuer are withheld monthly and are calculated on the monthly taxable income (differently from people filing a tax declaration which pay on their yearly income). This system is particularly disadvantageous for people which do not have a regular income flow throughout the year. In particular lump sum paid once a year (e.g. bonus) is heavily taxed - the quellessteuer tax rate for that month will be much higher than in other months.

Now, I was wondering, are also the taxes claimed back on the third pillar calculated on a monthly basis for people taxed at source? If this is so, it is probably much better to pay the max amount (the 6600 chf) on the month when the bonus is paid in order to offset the higher taxable income and lower the rate.

If it not so, does anyone know how the amount of claimed back taxes is calculated?

Thanks a lot.

Alvise
The contributions can be claimed back via a tax return.
They are not factored in monthly.

Now, if you earn over CHF 120K you'll get a tax return automatically and it all comes out in the wash.
If you earn less, there is a tax return "light". I'd consult a tax advisor (or wait until Richard corrects me ): you may be able to fill in a full tax return.

Note the 120K is "family" income. So if you and the missus earn, it is combined income. Then of course you have 2 x pillar 3a deductions.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 13.01.2008, 17:07
kri's Avatar
kri kri is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,030
Groaned at 9 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 647 Times in 366 Posts
kri has a reputation beyond reputekri has a reputation beyond reputekri has a reputation beyond reputekri has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

Quote:
View Post
The contributions can be claimed back via a tax return.
They are not factored in monthly.
Technically it is not a tax return but a request to correct the tax at source at the end of the year, a sort of claim back. You do this with a simple forma and not a tax declaration.

http://www.steueramt.zh.ch/html/form...ntrag-e01r.pdf

Unless you earn more than 120000 CHF in which case you do only the tax declaration.

regards,
Cristina
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank kri for this useful post:
  #38  
Old 13.01.2008, 17:09
gbn's Avatar
gbn gbn is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kloten
Posts: 1,959
Groaned at 66 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 847 Times in 486 Posts
gbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond reputegbn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

Quote:
View Post
Technically it is not a tax return but a request to correct the tax at source at the end of the year, a sort of claim back. You do this with a simple forma and not a tax declaration.

http://www.steueramt.zh.ch/html/form...ntrag-e01r.pdf

Unless you earn more than 120000 CHF in which case you do only the tax declaration.

regards,
Cristina
Thanks. That must be what I've heard about.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 13.01.2008, 22:05
muze7's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Uk now
Posts: 1,205
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 145 Times in 91 Posts
muze7 is considered knowledgeablemuze7 is considered knowledgeablemuze7 is considered knowledgeable
Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

Alvis, if you only work part of the year, it is useful asking to fill in a full tax form, as you will be able to use extra deductions, AND spread out your quellensteuer over the 12 months.

However, you then have to fill in a form every year as long as you stay in Switzerland (says Richard).

some of the extra deductions you can claim:
  • travel to work under certain conditions
  • or: a bike (700 CHF deduction)
  • lunch
  • some types of educational expenses
  • pillar 3a (but you can use the lite form too)
  • medical expenses if over 4 % of your net income (including monthly premiums perhaps; this is unclear to me)
So if you only worked part of the year, paying in the maximum of 6350 or so CHF a year is very beneficial. You can calculate how much tax roughly you will get back (go to UBS and search for calculators).
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 21.02.2008, 16:04
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Geneva/Zurich
Posts: 1
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
C.J. has no particular reputation at present
Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

Yes you can reclaim the tax even if you are taxed at source, eg those in their first five years of B permit status.

You need to write to the relevant tax authority by end of March each year and enclose your attestation of contribution for the previous tax year.

The basic rule for this allowance is use it or lose it.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
3rd pillar, dritte saeule, saving, sticky thread




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pension Second Pillar contributions DaveA Finance/banking/taxation 51 06.01.2015 12:50
Money into Pension Fund & Tax Saving ? Ashish Finance/banking/taxation 17 20.11.2011 21:38
Pension - Moving my UK pension to Switzerland movingtozug Finance/banking/taxation 94 28.04.2010 13:47
Claiming pension from first pillar (AHV) TimberWolf Finance/banking/taxation 6 24.09.2009 15:17
Tax break on contribution to pillar 3a retirement pension ThomasSoerensen Finance/banking/taxation 6 07.10.2007 15:00


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 00:23.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0