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Old 15.11.2012, 17:45
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incomes here and there - double taxes ?

I work and live in Switzerland. I have permit "B" and I pay taxes at source. (Basically my employer does that).

The thing is that back in my homeland I own apartment (technically I have a mortgage) and I rent it (I have a tenant).
That means that I have incomes in my homeland and I pay a tax for it there.

Question:
do I need to pay a tax in Switzerland for the income that I have got from my homeland ?

Thanks in advance for advices,
czezz
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Old 15.11.2012, 17:59
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Re: incomes here and there - double taxes ?

It will need to go on your Swiss tax return to calculate your worldwide income and appropriate tax rate in Switzerland.

Then your income will be apportioned to Switzerland and the other country based on wealth in each country and Swiss tax only applied to the Swiss allocation.

So you need the information but won't be double taxed. The allocation based on wealth may mean you have more or less income than you actually received allocated to the other country because the income is allocated on assets not on where it was earned.

Probably not a big deal.

Does that make ANY sense?

Bottom line you need to report the income and expense (mortgage/ running costs etc) it in Switzerland
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Old 15.11.2012, 18:12
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Re: incomes here and there - double taxes ?

Oh... I very bad with understanding taxes but thank you very much for your reply.
Do you know any tax advisor in Bern area ?

Additionally:
Quote:
Bottom line you need to report the income and expense (mortgage/ running costs etc) it in Switzerland
Do you mean that if I transfer any money to my homeland then I need to report it to Swiss Tax office ???
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Old 15.11.2012, 18:43
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Re: incomes here and there - double taxes ?

Sorry I don`t know any tax advisor in the Bern area.

Money you send home you don`t need to report as it`s not income it`s savings. But income from your other country (rent on the place you are landlord) you do as well as any costs on the house you are landlord (mortgage interest, maintenance, etc) you will also need a valuation of the market price of the house and the balance of any outstanding mortgages as at 31st December.
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Old 15.11.2012, 18:51
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Re: incomes here and there - double taxes ?

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Sorry I don`t know any tax advisor in the Bern area.

Money you send home you don`t need to report as it`s not income it`s savings. But income from your other country (rent on the place you are landlord) you do as well as any costs on the house you are landlord (mortgage interest, maintenance, etc) you will also need a valuation of the market price of the house and the balance of any outstanding mortgages as at 31st December.
False! You are required to declare all bank accounts, shares and property globally. The fact it is in a savings account makes no difference so if you transfer money back home you are required to declare the balance of that account as ar 31.12. This is declared in determining your global wealth

The income less expenses on the property is declared to determine your annual income not wealth. However the earlier answer that it goes towards working out your annual rate of tax is the purpose of this.

The overall effect is relatively small impact on your swiss tax

You will be best to talk to an accountant as there is already contradictory advice on here to your question. I am confident on what i have stated as i just completed my return and the way i have described is exactly how the accountant has done it for years
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Old 15.11.2012, 20:59
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Re: incomes here and there - double taxes ?

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False! You are required to declare all bank accounts, shares and property globally. The fact it is in a savings account makes no difference so if you transfer money back home you are required to declare the balance of that account as ar 31.12. This is declared in determining your global wealth

The income less expenses on the property is declared to determine your annual income not wealth. However the earlier answer that it goes towards working out your annual rate of tax is the purpose of this.

The overall effect is relatively small impact on your swiss tax

You will be best to talk to an accountant as there is already contradictory advice on here to your question. I am confident on what i have stated as i just completed my return and the way i have described is exactly how the accountant has done it for years
Sorry, yes Wallabies is right any bank balance at 31/12 anywhere in the world you need to report as part of your wealth. I was referring that the transaction of sending money home is not income.
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Old 15.11.2012, 21:16
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Re: incomes here and there - double taxes ?

Now I really confused.
Quote:
any bank balance at 31/12 anywhere in the world you need to report as part of your wealth
Does that mean if I have a bank account in my homeland then I need to report to Swiss Tax Office how much money I have there ???
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Old 15.11.2012, 21:27
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Re: incomes here and there - double taxes ?

Yes. You need to report both your worldwide income/ expenses and any assets (bank account balances e.g.) and liabilities (mortgage).

You are going to need a Swiss accountant so I suggest you arrange an initial meeting or maybe a telephone conversation and he will tell you what he needs.

Unless you are very wealthy you will not be liable for wealth tax and its relatively small % anyway.

Declaring your bank balances overseas assuming you aren't super wealthy won`t make a lot of difference to your tax return.

So don`t worry about it but get professional advice.
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Old 15.11.2012, 21:42
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Re: incomes here and there - double taxes ?

Ok, thank you very much for all advices.
I will start to look for a good accountant tomorrow.
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Old 16.11.2012, 05:41
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Re: incomes here and there - double taxes ?

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do I need to pay a tax in Switzerland for the income that I have got from my homeland ?
You must pay Swiss income tax on global earnings and wealth

You do get tax credits applicable from other countries if that other country has a double tax agreement with Switzerland
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Old 16.11.2012, 05:42
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Re: incomes here and there - double taxes ?

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Does that mean if I have a bank account in my homeland then I need to report to Swiss Tax Office how much money I have there ???
Correct, that is exactly what you must do.
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Old 16.11.2012, 08:37
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Re: incomes here and there - double taxes ?

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Correct, that is exactly what you must do.
Then it should be report from which day of the year ?
The my account state changes every week. Is there any specific day ?
What currency rate exchange should I use to calculate/convert its value in CHF ?
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Old 16.11.2012, 08:55
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Re: incomes here and there - double taxes ?

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Then it should be report from which day of the year ?
The my account state changes every week. Is there any specific day ?
What currency rate exchange should I use to calculate/convert its value in CHF ?
31 Deecember, you use the closing day mid rate.
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Old 16.11.2012, 09:40
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Re: incomes here and there - double taxes ?

http://www.estv.admin.ch/dokumentati...x.html?lang=en

dont know if this is any help to you? but worth a read though
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Old 16.11.2012, 23:57
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Re: incomes here and there - double taxes ?

Well, I have checked today in my office with other ppl with permit B. None of them known about wealth tax.
Some of these people are here already more than 3 years and they were surprised what I was telling them about.

So, if they live here so long without paying wealth tax (eg. for having bank account in their homeland) than maybe it is not obligatory ?
Is there any penalty for not notifying tax office about bank account other than swiss ?
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Old 17.11.2012, 00:30
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Re: incomes here and there - double taxes ?

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Well, I have checked today in my office with other ppl with permit B. None of them known about wealth tax.
Some of these people are here already more than 3 years and they were surprised what I was telling them about.
Are you saying you trust other people who don't know about a tax more than those here that have informed you about it in response to a question you yourself raised?
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Old 17.11.2012, 00:37
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Re: incomes here and there - double taxes ?

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So, if they live here so long without paying wealth tax (eg. for having bank account in their homeland) than maybe it is not obligatory ?
Is there any penalty for not notifying tax office about bank account other than swiss ?
Depending on the amount in their bank accounts they may not have reached the thresholds to be liable for the tax (ask your accountant/tax preparer).

However they are obliged to declare their assets if sent a tax declaration.

I know that Kt. Bern doesn't send forms if your income is less than 120k per year. But if you need one for other reasons you can request to file.

However owning property and declaring it or other potentially substantial assets/investments that could grow significantly in value over time may be worthwhile declaring.

I'm not a professional tax advisor therefore I'd suggest you consult with one. At the end of the day you are responsible for your compliance with the tax law, not the people you are speaking to with B permits.

Personally I had to initially file in 2 countries when I first came here. Once I was here 7 years this was then only necessary here unless my circumstances change significantly. However it may have helped that I'm not a citizen of the country where my investment is located. And my longstanding tax compliance here is a Pre-requisite of my citizenship application here. But my situation may not be relevant to you. Good luck getting a good advisor and advice!
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Old 17.11.2012, 06:42
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Re: incomes here and there - double taxes ?

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Well, I have checked today in my office with other ppl with permit B. None of them known about wealth tax.
Some of these people are here already more than 3 years and they were surprised what I was telling them about.

So, if they live here so long without paying wealth tax (eg. for having bank account in their homeland) than maybe it is not obligatory ?
Is there any penalty for not notifying tax office about bank account other than swiss ?
Then rhey have learnt now how they should be doing ir, the fact they have been here a while and not seclarinf does not make them correct, most of your answers here are feom people who are doing it right and who had accountants prepare their taxes.
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Old 17.11.2012, 08:21
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Re: incomes here and there - double taxes ?

Quote:
Depending on the amount in their bank accounts they may not have reached the thresholds to be liable for the tax
Does any one know what is the threshold outside bank accounts ?


Quote:
Are you saying you trust other people who don't know about a tax more than those here that have informed you about it in response to a question you yourself raised?
If these people live here for a couple of years and yet they were never asked/requested by Tax Office for incomes, bank accounts, etc from they homelands then it seems like this law works randomly.
Some people pay ta for it and some dont and nothing happens to them.
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Old 17.11.2012, 08:33
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Re: incomes here and there - double taxes ?

First you ask for advice now when the advice arrives you decide that because you received advice at work that suits you better financially that the answers on here should just be ignored. The wealth tax yes it exists but on the bank account balances I suspect you have it is likely to be so low (approximately 0.3% - 0.5%) that its hard to understand why your want to not declare and remove the risk you get discovered in future

Your colleagues are simply using the approach that the swiss tax authorities dont care or are too silly to realise that someone who is a recently arrived person from another country will not have any bank accounts there. Heh yes I arrived last year but heh I have absolutely no bank accounts left where I came from!

Last edited by Wallabies; 17.11.2012 at 08:52.
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