Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Finance/banking/taxation
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 19.11.2012, 21:05
Momus's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: GENEVA
Posts: 201
Groaned at 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 101 Times in 41 Posts
Momus is considered knowledgeableMomus is considered knowledgeableMomus is considered knowledgeable
Swiss Pension - Libre Passage and New Job

Hi,

Firstly, I did check the helpful FAQs but I don't think my query is in there, but please forgive me if I overlooked something .. So, I have a question which I don't think was covered.

I have worked in Switzerland for 6 years and have accumulated a company pension here as well as transferred over my UK pension, so I have everything together.

I was made redundant a while ago and my pension was transferred to a "libre passage" account - which means basically, I still can't touch it but that it sits with my bank of choice in a mixture of bonds and cash.

Now, I have started work again with a different employer and they are asking me to transfer in my funds from the libre passage into the company pension.

Question : Is it mandatory that I transfer across the funds to the company pension or can I keep them separate?


I actually don't like the company pension that much - I believe in research before investment and work in the banking industry, so I like to know what's underlying. I asked the company for more information on their allocations and they pointed me towards the annual report, which I said I had already read, but they then refused to answer any more questions and have declined any further comment. I tried to speak to my HR dept and their main contact was the woman I had spoken to, so it's a bit pathetic from them really. I feel the fund is not at all transparent - they mention the fund allocations but no further details, for example "Hedge Funds 15%" could mean literally anything and seems a bit aggressive for a pension in my ( and my financial advisors ) opinion... I would like ideally to get a performance-to-date in the current markets ( and every month ) - but this seems like pure optimism and, having lived here for some time, I know that companies here are not likely to welcome questions

I'm happy for my new pension entitlement to be paid into the fund ( not that I have a choice there ) but I would prefer to keep the main lump sum separate for the moment since the historical performance has been pretty rubbish.

My HR Dept says it is mandatory to move the pension across, while another contact has heard ( but conveniently cannot remember where ) that it is not.

I would like to find the reference to the legal legislation that proves I do not have to move the fund across.
( assuming thats the case )

Thanks if anyone can advise me what my rights are

Best,
Matthew
__________________
It's not God I have a problem with, it's the fanclub ...
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 19.11.2012, 21:12
22 yards's Avatar
Only in moderation
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel-Land
Posts: 6,596
Groaned at 188 Times in 147 Posts
Thanked 10,932 Times in 4,519 Posts
22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Pension - Libre Passage and New Job

It's mandatory to transfer your accumulated pension out of your old employer's pension fund (as you've done already), but I don't believe you have to pay it into your new employer's fund. Many, many people don't do it and the chances that your new pension fund will chase you for the money are negligible. Have you even told them about the lump sum deposit? (Obviously they know you should have a pension sitting somewhere, but do they know any details?)

I believe (but you need to check) that you're perfectly within your rights to leave the old pension in a vested pension fund ("Freizügigkeitskonto" in German, "compte de libre passage" in French) where it will be subject to all the usual restrictions that apply to pension funds.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 19.11.2012, 21:23
Sbrinz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Murten - Morat
Posts: 10,958
Groaned at 542 Times in 342 Posts
Thanked 10,560 Times in 5,401 Posts
Sbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Pension - Libre Passage and New Job

I did not want to transfer my funds into my new company scheme, and I was told I had no choice with "second pillar funds", the new company insisted on the transfer.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Sbrinz for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 19.11.2012, 21:40
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: USTER
Posts: 123
Groaned at 3 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 24 Times in 21 Posts
surfpowder has earned some respectsurfpowder has earned some respect
Re: Swiss Pension - Libre Passage and New Job

I don't know what the legal requirement is, but I just left my company and I had the option to choose transfer to the new pension, to be paid into a bank account, or to be paid out.

My wife has also had her pensions paid out to a bank account, and not to her new employer, so from my experience it seems to be up to you.

I'm in ZH in case that makes a difference...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank surfpowder for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 19.11.2012, 23:27
dannyt986's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wollerau, Schwyz
Posts: 1,781
Groaned at 25 Times in 18 Posts
Thanked 698 Times in 471 Posts
dannyt986 has a reputation beyond reputedannyt986 has a reputation beyond reputedannyt986 has a reputation beyond reputedannyt986 has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
View Post
I don't know what the legal requirement is, but I just left my company and I had the option to choose transfer to the new pension, to be paid into a bank account, or to be paid out.

My wife has also had her pensions paid out to a bank account, and not to her new employer, so from my experience it seems to be up to you.

I'm in ZH in case that makes a difference...
That sounds completely wrong for your employer(s) to have done anything anything other than transfer to a libre passage account or directly to your new employers pension fund.

You should transfer the pot to a new employer fund. But the employer/pension fundis not obligated to check this has been done. Most do as there are insurance components as well as pension savings in a pension fund. The logic being it is not fair for 2 employees of the same age, contributions from salary and capital to have the same benefits although one keeps his savings somewhere else and therefore not available to fund the insurance elements.

Quote:
View Post
That sounds completely wrong for your employer(s) to have done anything anything other than transfer to a libre passage account or directly to your new employers pension.
I'm pretty sure you will find the bank accounts are blocked accounts and the payment option was only on leaving the EU permanently or leaving Switzerland permanently in respect of the "over obligatory" savings part
__________________
www.templeman.net

Last edited by 22 yards; 20.11.2012 at 11:32.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank dannyt986 for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 22.11.2012, 09:35
Momus's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: GENEVA
Posts: 201
Groaned at 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 101 Times in 41 Posts
Momus is considered knowledgeableMomus is considered knowledgeableMomus is considered knowledgeable
Re: Swiss Pension - Libre Passage and New Job

Thanks 22 - I have also heard the same thing from a few people - some colleagues claim to have funds in a libre passage and never move this to the new company pension - but now I seem to be on HRs radar for asking the question in the first place.

I did tell them about it because I was interested in the sending my funds over initially but now I have seen the approximate split of the pension funds, I feel its a bit too aggressive for me, so I want to decline.

I would like to find something in the swiss law that I can quote back to them - an article or whatnot - to prove that I don't need to send the funds - my HR lady told me it was in the "law" but I am hesitant to question that directly back to her at the moment since I'm new in the company and I dont want to be seen as causing an issue ( we're a very small company )

A colleague says she didn't send hers either and she got the OK from the pension company. I will call them to see what they say, and check my staff handbook to see if that is mentioned somewhere that it's obligatory.

Thanks for your help, Matthew





Quote:
View Post
It's mandatory to transfer your accumulated pension out of your old employer's pension fund (as you've done already), but I don't believe you have to pay it into your new employer's fund. Many, many people don't do it and the chances that your new pension fund will chase you for the money are negligible. Have you even told them about the lump sum deposit? (Obviously they know you should have a pension sitting somewhere, but do they know any details?)

I believe (but you need to check) that you're perfectly within your rights to leave the old pension in a vested pension fund ("Freizügigkeitskonto" in German, "compte de libre passage" in French) where it will be subject to all the usual restrictions that apply to pension funds.
__________________
It's not God I have a problem with, it's the fanclub ...
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 22.11.2012, 09:38
Momus's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: GENEVA
Posts: 201
Groaned at 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 101 Times in 41 Posts
Momus is considered knowledgeableMomus is considered knowledgeableMomus is considered knowledgeable
Re: Swiss Pension - Libre Passage and New Job

Quote:
View Post

I'm pretty sure you will find the bank accounts are blocked accounts and the payment option was only on leaving the EU permanently or leaving Switzerland permanently in respect of the "over obligatory" savings part
This is also what I understand - you cannot access the funds in the pension account unless you i) leave switzerland ii) use it to buy a house iii) die - I'm sure all of this is in the FAQs.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02.03.2015, 20:07
Beanie101's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Verbier
Posts: 60
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 11 Times in 8 Posts
Beanie101 has made some interesting contributions
Re: Swiss Pension - Libre Passage and New Job

Excuse revisiting an old thread but this seemed to be as good a place to ask my question as any.

Unlike Momus (first posting in this thread), I have moved the other way, out of Switzerland and back to the UK. I have accumulated quite a pension fund (2e pillier with rachats) in the ten years that I was in Switzerland and this is currently sitting in a libre passage account, awaiting my next move. Now that I know that I am in the UK for good, I have been investigating what I can and can't do.

One thing that I have definitely been unable to do so far is to find a UK pension provider that will willingly accept a transfer from my libre passage account. Most of them don't seem to know what I am talking about and/or find it all too complicated.

So my question is, has anyone else tried to transfer their libre passage back to the UK and with whom? And as a supplementary question, if it all seems to be too difficult (for me and for them), are there other sensible options as to what I can do with this account without falling into unpleasant tax traps, either in Switzerland or the UK?
Reply With Quote
This user groans at Beanie101 for this post:
  #9  
Old 02.03.2015, 20:20
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 13,715
Groaned at 209 Times in 181 Posts
Thanked 11,027 Times in 6,254 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Pension - Libre Passage and New Job

Quote:
View Post
Excuse revisiting an old thread but this seemed to be as good a place to ask my question as any.

Unlike Momus (first posting in this thread), I have moved the other way, out of Switzerland and back to the UK. I have accumulated quite a pension fund (2e pillier with rachats) in the ten years that I was in Switzerland and this is currently sitting in a libre passage account, awaiting my next move. Now that I know that I am in the UK for good, I have been investigating what I can and can't do.

One thing that I have definitely been unable to do so far is to find a UK pension provider that will willingly accept a transfer from my libre passage account. Most of them don't seem to know what I am talking about and/or find it all too complicated.

So my question is, has anyone else tried to transfer their libre passage back to the UK and with whom? And as a supplementary question, if it all seems to be too difficult (for me and for them), are there other sensible options as to what I can do with this account without falling into unpleasant tax traps, either in Switzerland or the UK?
You can actually take it as cash as the UK does not require compulsory insurance.

GOOGLE Swiss LOB guarantee fund for more info.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03.03.2015, 00:00
Beanie101's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Verbier
Posts: 60
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 11 Times in 8 Posts
Beanie101 has made some interesting contributions
Re: Swiss Pension - Libre Passage and New Job

Quote:
View Post
You can actually take it as cash as the UK does not require compulsory insurance.

GOOGLE Swiss LOB guarantee fund for more info.
Thanks Fatmanfilms - that may well explain why no-one in the UK knows what I am talking about! My next task is to make sure that if I do take it as cash, the UK taxman doesn't grab a great chunk of it.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03.03.2015, 00:41
jaudi's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: zurich
Posts: 494
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 412 Times in 193 Posts
jaudi has an excellent reputationjaudi has an excellent reputationjaudi has an excellent reputationjaudi has an excellent reputation
Re: Swiss Pension - Libre Passage and New Job

Quote:
View Post
You can actually take it as cash as the UK does not require compulsory insurance.

GOOGLE Swiss LOB guarantee fund for more info.
Well, what it says is
" This competent office in the United Kingdom will, taking account of the required waiting period of 120 days after departure from Switzerland , check whether the applicant is subject to compulsory pensions insurance, and will inform the LOB Guarantee Fund in written form of the result."
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
libre passage, pension




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cashing in Swiss pension and returning to the UK cbb Finance/banking/taxation 45 30.10.2016 07:57
Company Pension transfer into Swiss Company Pension Canariesfan Finance/banking/taxation 1 16.06.2011 14:56
UK Final Salary Pension vs New Pension in Switzerland Nick_Stone12358 Finance/banking/taxation 4 14.12.2010 19:01
Parapenting (Vol Libre) for beginners TheSpouse Sports / Fitness / Beauty / Wellness 28 18.06.2010 15:53
A passage to the UK - your favourite spots allegra_:) General off-topic 9 02.09.2009 21:21


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:29.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0