Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Finance/banking/taxation
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04.12.2012, 12:35
Jumping Captain's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: CH
Posts: 1,200
Groaned at 86 Times in 69 Posts
Thanked 1,048 Times in 536 Posts
Jumping Captain has a reputation beyond reputeJumping Captain has a reputation beyond reputeJumping Captain has a reputation beyond reputeJumping Captain has a reputation beyond repute
Swiss Banks Will Report All Details of US Persons to IRS

Just heard this on the news at 12 today, DRS3 reported that the US and Switzerland signed an agreement yesterday that in accordance with FATCA all Swiss inland banks are to freely report all account details of all accounts held by US persons to the IRS.

This will go to the Swiss Parliament for the official stamp. The Parliament is already for it. Benefits for Switzerland include trade without discrimination of not reporting bank account details of US persons. With the stamp of approval from Parliament, this will take effect in 2014.

What does this mean for US persons in Switzerland, current and future? Think about it, if you don't complete your FBAR report completely and honestly, the IRS will fine you. So, to keep yourself out of hot water be sure to enter every account you have with all the details the government wants (like good boys and girls)... or Uncle Sam will cash in the next time you enter the US
JC
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04.12.2012, 12:58
drmom's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Somewhere in SG
Posts: 2,435
Groaned at 11 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 2,115 Times in 1,023 Posts
drmom has a reputation beyond reputedrmom has a reputation beyond reputedrmom has a reputation beyond reputedrmom has a reputation beyond reputedrmom has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Banks Will Report All Details of US Persons to IRS

This sounds like positive news to me. Hopefully then the banks will stop kicking us out and let us open accounts?

I think people are overly fearsome of the IRS. If you make innocent mistakes, they don't take you away in hand-cuffs and ask for the balance of your bank account. Why wouldn't you complete your FBAR honestly? Rather not complete one at all than to do so fraudulently, oder?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank drmom for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 04.12.2012, 13:08
Jumping Captain's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: CH
Posts: 1,200
Groaned at 86 Times in 69 Posts
Thanked 1,048 Times in 536 Posts
Jumping Captain has a reputation beyond reputeJumping Captain has a reputation beyond reputeJumping Captain has a reputation beyond reputeJumping Captain has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Banks Will Report All Details of US Persons to IRS

Quote:
View Post
This sounds like positive news to me. Hopefully then the banks will stop kicking us out and let us open accounts?

I think people are overly fearsome of the IRS. If you make innocent mistakes, they don't take you away in hand-cuffs and ask for the balance of your bank account. Why wouldn't you complete your FBAR honestly? Rather not complete one at all than to do so fraudulently, oder?
Right, play the FBAR game and keep yourself out of trouble! My thoughts exactly. Especially now.

Posted this to inform those that may not have been completely honest. Not that anybody in particular here would do that

If that allows for bank accounts to be opened is a good point. Remember, the FATCA reporting brings extra costs for the bank that don't bring in any profit... thus, my thoughts are doubtful, unless you have at least seven numbers to the left of the decimal in your account balance.
JC
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04.12.2012, 13:11
Tim8803's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zürich
Posts: 423
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 445 Times in 204 Posts
Tim8803 has earned the respect of manyTim8803 has earned the respect of manyTim8803 has earned the respect of many
Re: Swiss Banks Will Report All Details of US Persons to IRS

Quote:
View Post
What does this mean for US persons in Switzerland, current and future? Think about it, if you don't complete your FBAR report completely and honestly, the IRS will fine you. So, to keep yourself out of hot water be sure to enter every account you have with all the details the government wants (like good boys and girls)... or Uncle Sam will cash in the next time you enter the US
JC
Nothing new about this. Just makes it easier for the IRS to catch the ones who are dishonest!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04.12.2012, 13:13
Jumping Captain's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: CH
Posts: 1,200
Groaned at 86 Times in 69 Posts
Thanked 1,048 Times in 536 Posts
Jumping Captain has a reputation beyond reputeJumping Captain has a reputation beyond reputeJumping Captain has a reputation beyond reputeJumping Captain has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Banks Will Report All Details of US Persons to IRS

Quote:
View Post
Nothing new about this. Just makes it easier for the IRS to catch the ones who are dishonest!
Exactly. What is new, is that the Swiss government is behind it.
JC
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04.12.2012, 13:43
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: la cote
Posts: 2,692
Groaned at 9 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 2,008 Times in 1,138 Posts
runningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Banks Will Report All Details of US Persons to IRS

Quote:
View Post
This sounds like positive news to me. Hopefully then the banks will stop kicking us out and let us open accounts?
I wouldn't be too optimistic. There are only about 2-3 banks still in the game and they seem to continue to fall like flies. Being handcuffed to one financial institution is not exactly my idea of being able to conduct my banking business.

Quote:
View Post
I think people are overly fearsome of the IRS. If you make innocent mistakes, they don't take you away in hand-cuffs and ask for the balance of your bank account.
Actually I beg to differ, having just received a lien against property and threat of confiscation of my state tax return from the IRS yesterday. This is all for them charging me an absurd penalty and interest from 2009 taxes that they failed to notify me of until 2012. (what ever happend to due process?) All due to a foreign postal error that I have proved to them was no fault of my own. Are they being unreasonable, yes, are they insighting fear and levying unreasonable penalities against innocent persons, yes, are they bullying and charging unreasonable sums from foreign residents, yes. I have given up trying to be amicable and work something out, as each phone call and registered mail costs me to the tune of 30 chf each time, easily have done this 10 times now. I now have a bill negotiated down to 400 USD, which is still pure extortion. No way to fight it without more costly interventions that would soon exceed the 400, so they know they have the upper hand and innocent persons will have to pay.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank runningdeer for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 04.12.2012, 15:35
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Aargau
Posts: 111
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 143 Times in 51 Posts
Dual US/Swiss Citizen has made some interesting contributions
Re: Swiss Banks Will Report All Details of US Persons to IRS

I am amazed at the passivity of many of the comments on this post. It is as if everyone accepts the increasing draconian conditions, they will be left alone. Basically this new agreement strips all 'US persons' of all their Swiss constitutional rights to privacy. I have a friend who just got fined USD 1200.- for sending in his tax form a few months late. If the current trend continues, everything will just get worse. I suspect that in the future the US will be cashing in quite heavily from US expats. This is still a relatively untapped source of revenue.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Dual US/Swiss Citizen for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 04.12.2012, 16:00
temiatwork's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Geneva
Posts: 434
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 147 Times in 103 Posts
temiatwork is considered knowledgeabletemiatwork is considered knowledgeabletemiatwork is considered knowledgeable
Re: Swiss Banks Will Report All Details of US Persons to IRS

Switzerland to announce Fatca tax deal with US
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank temiatwork for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 04.12.2012, 16:17
edot's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Winterthur
Posts: 4,041
Groaned at 10 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 4,524 Times in 2,105 Posts
edot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Banks Will Report All Details of US Persons to IRS

I'm curious to know what this means from the article linked above.

" Some details of a potential agreement were released jointly by the US and Switzerland in June, showing that pensions, insurance and social security would not be covered by the Fatca agreement, but such details will be confirmed only when the final agreement is published, after it is signed."
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04.12.2012, 16:21
olygirl's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: d' Innerschwiiz
Posts: 4,633
Groaned at 204 Times in 132 Posts
Thanked 9,385 Times in 2,844 Posts
olygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Banks Will Report All Details of US Persons to IRS

Quote:
View Post
Just heard this on the news at 12 today, DRS3 reported that the US and Switzerland signed an agreement yesterday that in accordance with FATCA all Swiss inland banks are to freely report all account details of all accounts held by US persons to the IRS.
Nothing is free and the banks don't want more bureacracy than they already have. In fact, if they can avoid the US government, they will. Or they'll charge for this service.

The noose has just tightened.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank olygirl for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 04.12.2012, 16:23
JBZ86's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Zurich and various mountains
Posts: 4,004
Groaned at 538 Times in 347 Posts
Thanked 4,213 Times in 1,923 Posts
JBZ86 has a reputation beyond reputeJBZ86 has a reputation beyond reputeJBZ86 has a reputation beyond reputeJBZ86 has a reputation beyond reputeJBZ86 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Banks Will Report All Details of US Persons to IRS

Quote:
View Post
I am amazed at the passivity of many of the comments on this post. It is as if everyone accepts the increasing draconian conditions, they will be left alone. Basically this new agreement strips all 'US persons' of all their Swiss constitutional rights to privacy. I have a friend who just got fined USD 1200.- for sending in his tax form a few months late. If the current trend continues, everything will just get worse. I suspect that in the future the US will be cashing in quite heavily from US expats. This is still a relatively untapped source of revenue.
Yes, most tax authorities charge penalties and interest for late filing if there is a balance due.

This is nothing new, and has been this way since, well the beginning of compliance.

FYI - tax filing deadlines are the following dates following the year of assessment:

15 April in the US
15 June if outside the US
15 October if file extension
15 December if file for additional 2 month extension, only when 15 October extension has been filed.

The dates do not change, give a or take a day or two for national holidays or whatever, there is plenty of time do it, its not like its due 1 January.

So, I dont quite get it when someone says I am fined for filing late, dont file late then. Tell your friend.
__________________
Small minds are concerned with the extraordinary, great minds with the ordinary, Blaise Pascal
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank JBZ86 for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 04.12.2012, 16:31
Jumping Captain's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: CH
Posts: 1,200
Groaned at 86 Times in 69 Posts
Thanked 1,048 Times in 536 Posts
Jumping Captain has a reputation beyond reputeJumping Captain has a reputation beyond reputeJumping Captain has a reputation beyond reputeJumping Captain has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Banks Will Report All Details of US Persons to IRS

Quote:
View Post
Nothing is free and the banks don't want more bureacracy than they already have. In fact, if they can avoid the US government, they will. Or they'll charge for this service.

The noose has just tightened.
Totally agree... nothing is free. But "freely" as used here is not in gratis, but voluntarily.

My gut says the banks will not lighten up on the US persons and accounts.
JC
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04.12.2012, 16:34
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Aargau
Posts: 111
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 143 Times in 51 Posts
Dual US/Swiss Citizen has made some interesting contributions
Re: Swiss Banks Will Report All Details of US Persons to IRS

Quote:
View Post
So, I dont quite get it when someone says I am fined for filing late, dont file late then. Tell your friend.
To elaborate, this person asked their tax preparer over the phone to send in the extension. This was mistakenly not done. I could see how this could happen. This is one example how the IRS is arbitrarily penalizing overseas expats for the smallest of 'footfaults'.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04.12.2012, 16:40
JBZ86's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Zurich and various mountains
Posts: 4,004
Groaned at 538 Times in 347 Posts
Thanked 4,213 Times in 1,923 Posts
JBZ86 has a reputation beyond reputeJBZ86 has a reputation beyond reputeJBZ86 has a reputation beyond reputeJBZ86 has a reputation beyond reputeJBZ86 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Banks Will Report All Details of US Persons to IRS

Quote:
View Post
To elaborate, this person asked their tax preparer over the phone to send in the extension. This was mistakenly not done. I could see how this could happen. This is one example how the IRS is arbitrarily penalizing overseas expats for the smallest of 'footfaults'.
Ah, ok, well in this instance negotiating on whether this was part of the scope of service will determine often who foots the bill.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04.12.2012, 16:40
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 4,810
Groaned at 25 Times in 23 Posts
Thanked 5,719 Times in 2,754 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Banks Will Report All Details of US Persons to IRS

I guess I don't see what the big deal is. I have nothing to hide (literally and figuratively). I don't have enough money in the bank to file an FBAR, so I don't care. I sold my house and reported that like I would have if I lived in the U.S. I file my taxes on time. So what if my bank tells the IRS how much money I have.

But maybe I'm one of those people who is too complacent and it will come back to bite me??
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04.12.2012, 16:42
Jumping Captain's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: CH
Posts: 1,200
Groaned at 86 Times in 69 Posts
Thanked 1,048 Times in 536 Posts
Jumping Captain has a reputation beyond reputeJumping Captain has a reputation beyond reputeJumping Captain has a reputation beyond reputeJumping Captain has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Banks Will Report All Details of US Persons to IRS

US expats living abroad are scrutinized to the max and more in the future. The future will be a serious obstacle course with regard to taxes, forms and accounts. Worst thing is no one (outside of EF) is there to tell you about the new changes, updates or withdrawals. The IRS will surely not lift a single finger to inform individuals. Without the EF sharing information, a US expat would be lost... unless of course, they spent hours reading and scouring through the IRS websites and the many instructions involved.
JC
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Jumping Captain for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 04.12.2012, 16:46
Jumping Captain's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: CH
Posts: 1,200
Groaned at 86 Times in 69 Posts
Thanked 1,048 Times in 536 Posts
Jumping Captain has a reputation beyond reputeJumping Captain has a reputation beyond reputeJumping Captain has a reputation beyond reputeJumping Captain has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Banks Will Report All Details of US Persons to IRS

Quote:
View Post
But maybe I'm one of those people who is too complacent and it will come back to bite me??
To me it is not a matter of being compliant. Americans are one of the most compliant cultures out there.

What I don't like is the fact that the individual is no longer a person. They are a number and there is nothing private anymore. The system has bent and manipulated the laws and regulations to their advantage... all starting with the initiation of "Homeland Security"... which is nothing more than a Big Brother allowed by law.
JC
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Jumping Captain for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 04.12.2012, 16:47
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Aargau
Posts: 111
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 143 Times in 51 Posts
Dual US/Swiss Citizen has made some interesting contributions
Re: Swiss Banks Will Report All Details of US Persons to IRS

Quote:
View Post
I guess I don't see what the big deal is. I have nothing to hide (literally and figuratively). I don't have enough money in the bank to file an FBAR, so I don't care. I sold my house and reported that like I would have if I lived in the U.S. I file my taxes on time. So what if my bank tells the IRS how much money I have.

But maybe I'm one of those people who is too complacent and it will come back to bite me??
I see a trend here. With FATCA, the US is not only ensuring current 'compliance' but also is inventorying all your assets for future use. You may not have a 'bite' now, but just wait a few years, especially as your pension amounts increase, sell your house at a profit due to the currency appreciation, etc ....
Reply With Quote
The following 9 users would like to thank Dual US/Swiss Citizen for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 04.12.2012, 17:55
drmom's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Somewhere in SG
Posts: 2,435
Groaned at 11 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 2,115 Times in 1,023 Posts
drmom has a reputation beyond reputedrmom has a reputation beyond reputedrmom has a reputation beyond reputedrmom has a reputation beyond reputedrmom has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Banks Will Report All Details of US Persons to IRS

Quote:
View Post
To me it is not a matter of being compliant. Americans are one of the most compliant cultures out there.

What I don't like is the fact that the individual is no longer a person. They are a number and there is nothing private anymore. The system has bent and manipulated the laws and regulations to their advantage... all starting with the initiation of "Homeland Security"... which is nothing more than a Big Brother allowed by law.
JC

How is this different than if I were living in the US? You think the government/IRS wouldn't know then? It is just the way it is, no matter where you live as as US citizen, the way I see it. Of course, I could be wrong...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank drmom for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 04.12.2012, 18:06
poptart's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,804
Groaned at 33 Times in 28 Posts
Thanked 3,013 Times in 1,242 Posts
poptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Swiss Banks Will Report All Details of US Persons to IRS

Quote:
View Post
I guess I don't see what the big deal is. I have nothing to hide (literally and figuratively). I don't have enough money in the bank to file an FBAR, so I don't care.
You have to report all accounts that meet or exceed $10USD at any point during the calendar year. Living in Switzerland, it's pretty difficult to not meet that criteria.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank poptart for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
bank, fatca, fbar, tax




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
US IRS helps itself to Swiss income Dual US/Swiss Citizen Finance/banking/taxation 106 16.08.2012 13:57
UBS/IRS Crackdown on 20 Other Swiss Banks LondonBob Finance/banking/taxation 11 11.02.2012 17:07
Swiss media blame banks for caving in to US pressure The Local Swiss news via The Local 0 06.02.2012 08:41
US threatens Swiss with return to visas: report The Local Swiss news via The Local 7 15.12.2011 23:45
Swiss to supply bank information to US: report The Local Swiss news via The Local 0 06.09.2011 09:46


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:59.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0