So if I understand correctly, 120k threshold rule doesn't apply in Geneva canton.

Dear Forum,

I am making the most of this rather depressing day, which reminds me way too much of Ireland, to look into a few ways to reduce my tax. My earnings are well below the 120K level for a full tax declaration but as I filled my pillar 3a for 2008 I want to make this a dry-run for next year! I also started an MA by distance-learning in 2007 which is directly related to my employment. I am pretty sure that this will be considered 'Weiterbildungskosten' as described on the 'Antragsformular für eine Korrekturberechnung der Quellensteuer' which Richard has kindly drawn our attention to.

I walked to my local tax office and in my basic German explained that I was on Quellensteuer and wanted to get the withholding tax back on my accounts. This amounts to a little over 100 franks, but as I say I want to get the practice in for next year. I was given a 'Wertschriften- und Guthabenverzeichnis' but not the above form. My girlfriend filled it in for me and here is the bit I don't understand. You add up the amount of withholding tax paid then at the very bottom of the page you represent this as 35%.

Are we only refunded 35% of the 35% Next week I am going to take both forms in with my Lohnausweis, relevant bank certificates for the withholding tax, and the receipt from the University. Have I left anything out, am I on the right tracks to getting at least some of the withholding tax back or was I just fobbed off with that other form?

Cheers - hope the weather picks up.

John

Great overview, thanks! Could you clarify the following:

- Where can I find legislation stating that such purchases into the 2nd pillar are tax free and that they can be claimed as deductions from Quellensteuer?

Is this it or related?
"Steuerfrei sind: [...] der Vermögensanfall aus rückkaufsfähiger privater Kapitalversicherung, ausgenommen aus Freizügigkeitspolicen." (SR 642.11 Art 24b)

- When taxes on capital payouts related to 2nd pillar are mentioned, does this include only voluntary contributions? For instance, in Bern, up to CHF 5,000 is tax-free:
"Kapitalleistungen unter CHF 5'000 sind steuerfrei. Dies gilt bei Ehepaaren für jeden Ehepartner einzeln, auf seine Kapitalleistung bezogen." http://www.taxinfo.sv.fin.be.ch/de/T...2-7c54599cedb0

It would be harsh if the mandatory 2nd pillar "deductions" taken by the employer at source were taxed again, when one leaves the country and wants 2nd pillar back, but I just want to make sure.

Thanks ...

Another question here (still waiting for responses to the post above ):

Does the three-year Sperrfrist (aka blocking/vesting period) on the cash-out of the voluntary purchase into the 2nd pillar apply if one leaves Switzerland for good (two years after the buy-in, for instance)?

I am also wondering whether such a three-year period is typical of Bern Kanton only or is across the board...

Thanks in advance!

The restriction of 3 years apply even if you leave switzerland. However after the completion of 3 years, you can take it out in full. I am not sure if this restriction is by canton or by insurance provider. In Geneva it's the same.

Another question:

In terms of tax exemption, how do the voluntary contributions into the 2nd pillar and 3a account co-exist?

Here is our case: my husband made a voluntary 2nd pillar contribution to the Bern Pensionkasse, after having filled out a survey, where one of the questions was whether he has a 3a Account. He doesn't yet. He has already received "Bescheinigung über Vorsorgebeiträge" (Certificate about Pension Contributions), which I assume should be filed together with Quellensteuerkorrektur. The accompanying letter to the Bescheinigung states that "Eine Einschränkung nach Artikel 79 b BVG und den Artikeln 60a und 60b BW2 liegt nicht vor."

Now, article 60a says:
"Der Höchstbetrag der Einkaufssumme reduziert sich um ein Guthaben in der Säule 3a, soweit es die aufgezinste Summe der jährlichen gemäss Artikel 7 Absatz 1 Buchstabe a der Verordnung vom 13. November 19851 über die steuerliche Abzugsberechtigung für Beiträge an anerkannte Vorsorgeformen vom Einkommen höchstens abziehbaren Beiträge ab vollendetem 24. Altersjahr der versicherten Person übersteigt. Bei der Aufzinsung kommen die jeweils gültigen BVG-Mindestzinssätze zur Anwendung."

I can't quite make sense of it. Does this mean that if a person has a 3a Account, then part of his/her buying into the 2nd pillar will NOT be tax-deductible? or does this mean that if somebody has a 3rd pillar account, the amount of allowed purchase into the 2nd pillar will be less?

What if my husband opens up a 3a Account now, in December 2008, after having made a purchase into the 2nd pillar? Will that influence the tax-deductibility of either 2nd pillar voluntary contribution or 3a pillar for the year 2008?

Thanks in advance!

HI Richard,

Thanks for this useful post. For interest on debts is there a limit to type ? So if there a a UK inheritance Tax debt which has accrued inteterest (in the UK) this year can this be used to offset the CH tax calculation ?

thanks

Mike

Tax exemption is given for the total amount of 2nd pillar and 3A contributions. 3rd pillar contributions are limited to 6365 CHF while the 2nd pillar contributions are limited to maximum 20% of your salary in a year.

That's what I want to hear!

But why then are they asking whether you have a 3a Account when you want to purchase into the 2nd pillar? And what is this "reduction" quote from Art 60a about?

We asked the Bern tax authorities for the form similar to "Antragsformular für eine Korrekturberechnung der Quellensteuer" provided by the Kanton of Zuerich (we couldn't find a form for Bern anywhere online).

They responded in English: "So, if you like to fill tax forms for the year 2008, it’s possible. Your email of the 15/12/2008 is enough as “der Antrag”. (If you want to fill in future again tax forms then you have to send “der Antrag” all year again into the 31 march of the follow year.)
You will still remain taxed at source and the taxes will be new calculated with this tax forms.
The result, after take back the taxes at source that you have already paid for the 2008, can be to your favour, the you received the money back, or the result can be to our favour, than you will receive a bill to pay the difference.

Now, the tax forms of the 2008 will be send in March 2009. After received the forms you have 45 days time to fill these forms and to return to our office."


So the big question is: Is it possible that one can owe money after submitting a Quellensteuer Korrektur??? (see the underlined part of the response)


I have a bad feeling that they think we want to fill out a full tax return, which we don't...


Has anyone encountered/ filled out a Quellensteuer Korrektur form for Bern? If we have the exact form, maybe it would be easier to explain to the tax people what we actually want to do.

I've just started going through the tax process with my accountant here and he says that income paid on loans outside of Switzerland are deductable from your worldwide income.

Hi Richard,

Could you please give me more idea on effectively saving the tax?

Thanks

Hi everyone,

Yet another question regarding "Antragsformular für eine Korrekturberechnung der Quellensteuer" whose answer and my experience could be also useful for others.

On the March 9th, 2009 I have posted my “Antragsformular für eine Korrekturberechnung der Quellensteuer 2008” application form and its attachments to "Steueramt Zürich". Since I haven’t received any response from them yet, yesterday I called them to find out about the status of my application. As a result they informed me that my application wasn’t found in their records, and they asked me to send the photocopies of the application form and its attachments. Now the auditor(s) are going to decide whether I will be able to get the tax return that I deserve its every single Frank!

Of course we all know that the letter got lost in the office. But this doesn't change the fact that I am in a position that I missed the given submission deadline which is the end of the March. My question is that is there anyone who has a similar experience? If the auditors don't be willing to pay the tax return what kind of procedure shall I follow?

And finally when you submit this kind of forms always use registered letter (Einschreiben), so that you won't be the miserable who missed the deadline?

Thanks in advance for your answers.

deadlines for tax declaration submission are 'indicative/a guideline' at best. you can easily get a 6 month extension if you so wished. the only 'penalty' i know of is that the interest on the debt you owe them starts after 6 months and also the interest they owe you on your credit will not start until submission. as for a fine or a penalty for submitting late, not heard of one of those. certainly not for a few days/weeks late.

as a result registered mail is overkill to send your docs.

not sure where you come from but dealing with the tax authorities here is nothing like in the UK or IE for example! its all very civilised here.

Thanks for the reply. The problem is not about any extensions I might have needed. I sent everything on time. But more than 3 months later it ended up that they haven't received my applications and I am in trouble now to get my tax return because I don't have a proof that I sent my applications in timely manner. Although you think it's overkill if I used registered letter to send my application, this wouldn't be my problem that my application wasn't received. Now my tax return is in question.

err, i think you'll find that it is your problem! all you would be able to prove is that you sent it. then they would admit they lost it and you would have to submit it again! they can't evaluate an invisible/lost tax return and the obligation is on you to provide them with the details. rock / hard place i know but they make the rules!

don't quite understand this! do you think you are going to get 'special' harsh treatment because you were late? even if that were true (i refer to my reference on civility above (c now that you have told them they should be reasonably accommodating to your situation.

the worst that will happen is that you loose some money on interest owed to you or pay a little more on the debt owed to them. if you think it is worth it (time and cost) when you get the evaluation/result of your return you can have you accountant contest it at the risk of drawing MORE attention to your return and possibly having to pay more.

Does anyone know when approximately one recieves feedback (preferrably money on your account ) after submitting the form?
I have sent my form beg. of March and heard nothing since then .

could be anywhere from 9 -- 24 months!

This is the time of the year when we have to start thinking about sending our Quellensteuer return. As explained before, it has to be before the end of March. Keep it in mind!

In case you know German and want to read more about the Quellensteuer check the official site:

http://www.steueramt.zh.ch/html/quel...beitnehmer.htm

Regards!