Please everyone sign this petition, as it would simplify matters for a lot of people with tax homes abroad who already pay taxes where they live. Tell the government to put US Taxation Policy in line with the way other countries do it (exception: Eritrea, whose extraterritorial tax the US critisized via UN SC resolution).
Note: It seems that the US Zip code can be omitted when signing the petition. All you have to do is sign-up to the whitehouse.gov site with any email address.
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Re: End Citizenship-Based Taxation: Petition on Whitehouse Petition on Whitehouse.gov
Would a petition with multiple signatories, make any difference in US tax legislation?
As you're probably aware, here, if any proposal to legislation change, is demanded by the populace, 100 000 signatures will result in a referendum, and possible further parliamentary debate.
The same is not true in the US - do the legislators actually change policy based on petitions with popular support?
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Re: End Citizenship-Based Taxation: Petition on Whitehouse Petition on Whitehouse.gov
@Timmow I realize that there is no right of referendum at the US federal level, but the petition is worth a try. It would give us an idea of the number of people who are actually concerned about the issue and the mere fact that the petition exists might increase awareness and debate.
Here is the thread at IBS where I first learned of this petition:
Certainly, a Death Star should be constructed soon. This would mean the taxation petition is in direct conflict as it'll surely need the tax money from Americans abroad?
Would a petition with multiple signatories, make any difference in US tax legislation?
As you're probably aware, here, if any proposal to legislation change, is demanded by the populace, 100 000 signatures will result in a referendum, and possible further parliamentary debate.
The same is not true in the US - do the legislators actually change policy based on petitions with popular support?
Generally no. However, the Whitehouse is obligated to respond to petitions that reach a certain number of signatures (30k, I think?), so it at least generates some kind of awareness.
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The Obama administration doesn't make the laws. Congress does.
Given the current status of U.S. coffers, I don't care if 30 million people sign the petition the law will not change any time soon. Nice try, though.
Well, the Obama administration can propose laws. As it did with FATCA. If we can convince them that FATCA and double taxation ultimately hurt the US economy then maybe we can make some progress.
Well, the Obama administration can propose laws. As it did with FATCA. If we can convince them that FATCA and double taxation ultimately hurt the US economy then maybe we can make some progress.
IMO, these people that you are trying to invoke thought and reality are not capable of such. They are wearing blinders (by choice or other is not clear) and don't see more than five meters in front of their noses (meaning their imagination of what could be is drastically limited, which could be seen as a form of self-protection).
A petition arouses the temperatures of those concerned or directly affected by the words within. The majority of the US folk believe expats are traitors and hiding from the tax system - Which, if proposed in a counter-petition, would have many more signatures than the above mentioned.
my2cents JC
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IMO, these people that you are trying to invoke thought and reality are not capable of such. They are wearing blinders (by choice or other is not clear) and don't see more than five meters in front of their noses (meaning their imagination of what could be is drastically limited, which could be seen as a form of self-protection).
A petition arouses the temperatures of those concerned or directly affected by the words within. The majority of the US folk believe expats are traitors and hiding from the tax system - Which, if proposed in a counter-petition, would have many more signatures than the above mentioned.
my2cents JC
So what you're saying is that we shouldn't try to raise awareness and get things changed?
It's always worth trying. Only by bringing the issue into the light can we change public opinion.
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Re: End Citizenship-Based Taxation: Petition on Whitehouse Petition on Whitehouse.gov
While I'm a supporter of efforts to raise awareness of the idiocy that is FATCA, especially wrt to collateral damage to honest expats, I tend to look at signing petitions as an act akin to tilting at windmills.
My personal preference is to do what I can to raise awareness among the legislature, along the lines of the campaigns sponsored by ACA.
I would not sign this particular petition, although I am painfully affected and would love to see a re-think on expat taxation, simply because this petition is not well thought out. It is far too superficial, does not present a convincing argument - and the bit at the end about concentrating on domestic taxation, while a fair point, is not the way to win hearts and minds among (US resident) voters.
But I applaud your sentiment, and wish you good luck with your efforts.
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Re: End Citizenship-Based Taxation: Petition on Whitehouse Petition on Whitehouse.gov
Interesting petition otherwise summed up as:
Dear America,
Thank you for investing in our education and allowing us to grow and start families in your wonderful land. The opportunities you provided us to prosper have been fantastic. Our reward, a blue book and declaration of citizenship is truly cherished.
But America, we have moved away from you now, as we have found greener grass and opportunities elsewhere. Elsewhere will not yet accept our citizenship, but they pay us well and provide great things for our families and children, and a difference we do not see in America. We want to keep our blue books if we can, we are proud Americans, we just dont want to contribute to America anymore.
Of course, in the event of any drastic change of circumstance i.e. we get bored, lose our jobs, want to visit aunt Betty, we would like you to welcome us back and our dependents no questions asked. If wars were to unravel, we would of course welcome your powerful bulk. But, whilst we are away, do we have to contribute to all of America? we have got what we need, and no longer need you right now, but will let you know when we do.
Many thanks
Your proud American.
__________________
Small minds are concerned with the extraordinary, great minds with the ordinary, Blaise Pascal
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Thank you for investing in our education and allowing us to grow and start families in your wonderful land. The opportunities you provided us to prosper have been fantastic. Our reward, a blue book and declaration of citizenship is truly cherished.
But America, we have moved away from you now, as we have found greener grass and opportunities elsewhere. Elsewhere will not yet accept our citizenship, but they pay us well and provide great things for our families and children, and a difference we do not see in America. We want to keep our blue books if we can, we are proud Americans, we just dont want to contribute to America anymore.
Of course, in the event of any drastic change of circumstance i.e. we get bored, lose our jobs, want to visit aunt Betty, we would like you to welcome us back and our dependents no questions asked. If wars were to unravel, we would of course welcome your powerful bulk. But, whilst we are away, do we have to contribute to all of America? we have got what we need, and no longer need you right now, but will let you know when we do.
While I'm a supporter of efforts to raise awareness of the idiocy that is FATCA, especially wrt to collateral damage to honest expats, I tend to look at signing petitions as an act akin to tilting at windmills.
My personal preference is to do what I can to raise awareness among the legislature, along the lines of the campaigns sponsored by ACA.
I would not sign this particular petition, although I am painfully affected and would love to see a re-think on expat taxation, simply because this petition is not well thought out. It is far too superficial, does not present a convincing argument - and the bit at the end about concentrating on domestic taxation, while a fair point, is not the way to win hearts and minds among (US resident) voters.
But I applaud your sentiment, and wish you good luck with your efforts.
The ACA posted a link to this petition on facebook, and asked folks to support the efforts of the authors of this proposal. That's how i learned of it. (Went back to check and make sure I wasn't imagining things).
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The ACA posted a link to this petition on facebook, and asked folks to support the efforts of the authors of this proposal. That's how i learned of it. (Went back to check and make sure I wasn't imagining things).
Hmmm... I'm still not comfortable signing this. Not their usual balanced approach.
I'll stick to writing my senators and congresscritters.
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So what you're saying is that we shouldn't try to raise awareness and get things changed?
It's always worth trying. Only by bringing the issue into the light can we change public opinion.
<soapbox>
No, change should happen, change should be given a kick in the a$$ to get it motivated and moving in the right direction And if it takes 30, 50 or a hundred thousand signatures to get it going... then let it happen! On top of that, that is (or was) the American way.
My opinion is, that the desk of the decision makers in which any such truckload of signatures land will not change anything. Maybe spark a bit of interest, open one's eye (if even a little) or land in the paper bin.
Further, only if the media is behind the petitioners and the supporting signatures will any change or the step in the right direction be made. That said, the majority of those in the US are, for whatever reason (ignorance, mind washed, uninterested, and the list goes on...) not sympathetic of the position of the Americans that decide to make a life elsewhere. And, unless there is a sympathetic media-giant in the US that brings the petition and the truckload of signatures being delivered into the limelight... it won't be given the attention that it deserves.
If to make a point to the American folk and to those in Washington, then it would take the 6.5 million American expats (or a very large percentage thereof) to stand up and speak out. To NOT pay the double taxed income, to not pay the future invoices to cover life in the US, to not file FBAR... and would require the support of all those countries/banks world wide that tuck their tail between their hind legs when Big Brother speaks out with their demands.
Then, and IMO only then will it be noticed how the expats are treated. As well as the slightest chance that change may happen. But... go figure the chance of that happening
JC
</soapbox>
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We need to get the word out however we can. There are 5-7 million US citizens abroad, and only a few hundred thousand tax returns filed from abroad each year. This means that there are plenty of people that are happily ignorant of their US tax "obligation" and stand to get really done over when FATCA causes them problems that prevent them from functioning in the country they live in.
I agree that even if we get many signatures, the government might not budge, but at least we have the signatures (even if unofficial because no proof of voting status) that will show that penty of people think that citizenship-based taxation is a bad idea.
I agree that the media needs to get behind us. Up to now, most of the media coverage on bank secrecy and expat taxes in the US was pretty negative (Savarin case an example). But there is increasing pushback from US persons and their allies abroad and in the US. Many reputable people such as J. Jatras http://www.repealfatca.com/ who live in the "homeland" are addressing the problem and expressing their opinion in our favor. Associations such as ACA, http://isaacbrocksociety.cahttp://maplesandbox.ca are putting out press releases, and their members are responding to articles about FATCA on major news web sites such as CNN, Financial Times, Wall Street Journal, to name a few.
I would encourage all of you that care about this issue to respond to all news articles you find on the issue and lay out all of the complexities and inequalities that US extraterritorial tax policy causes. If you want to stay anonymous because you are not sure if you are compliant and are worried about getting fingered for speaking out, fine, create a special email address and a Facebook account dedicated to that under a nom de plume as I have done.
We need everyone to get involved in this issue. Come to the Isaac Brock Society and/or Maple. Contribute a membership fee or higher donation to ACA. Tell everyone about the various associations and forums that deal with these issues. Tell your congresspersons what you think, tell your local legislators in the country where you live what you think. If you are not a Citizen of the country you live in, you might still be able to get the word out. Talk to your local mayor's office. Ask around. Find out if people really know to what extent US policies attack the autonomy of the local country.
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Re: End Citizenship-Based Taxation: Petition on Whitehouse Petition on Whitehouse.gov
I forgot to write the ACA's address in case some of you do not know: www.americansabroad.org or www.aca.ch. ACA is based in Geneva and Washington. There is another seperate organization based in Paris and Prague I think www.aaro.org.
And if it takes 30, 50 or a hundred thousand signatures to get it going... then let it happen! On top of that, that is (or was) the American way.
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