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Old 11.01.2013, 18:22
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QROPS without Pillar2

Please don't groan just yet.

Searched many a thread and posts on this subject but failed to find advise that applies to my situation. I'm about to have my first meeting with a financial adviser and would like to do a little homework on the subject.

Returned to Switzerland just under 4 years ago after more that 30 years living in sunny Scotland. I've been self employed all that time and accrued a personal pension pot in excess of £100K. I don't trust the pound and I've got this uneasy feeling that the UK Government will try to squeeze the ex-pats for cash to shore up its finances and I am therefore seriously considering moving my pension pot to Switzerland.

Although I have been working in Switzerland part time in the last 4 years (but no longer) I do not have any kind of Swiss pension at all and as far as I can make out my only options are to transfer my pension pot to a QROPS approved account in Switzerland. I can then either cash in the fund and pay the UK Tax man 55% or leave the fund intact and generate as much income as possible then cash it in after 10 years without incurring any UK tax.

Off course ideally I would like to use the pot for what it was intended for in the first place i.e. to provide a lifetime income but my only option appears to be a Leibrente which as far as I can make out is expensive to set up and doesn't provide great returns and on top of it is 40% taxable.

Advise greatly entgegengenommen.
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Old 11.01.2013, 20:21
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Re: QROPS without Pillar2

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...I'm about to have my first meeting with a financial adviser and would like to do a little homework on the subject.
You're about to have a first meeting with a salesman posing as a financial adviser who will say what it takes to convince you (1) that he and his company are qualified to give you financial advice and (2) that you should transfer your money to a scheme that will cream off a large chunk of your savings in commission and fees.

You should check out threads like these:

3rd pillar from Generali?

http://www.englishforum.ch/finance-b...s-warning.html

http://www.englishforum.ch/finance-b...ors-prowl.html

Fund management entity structures: Is this legal?
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Old 11.01.2013, 20:40
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Re: QROPS without Pillar2

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Please don't groan just yet.

Searched many a thread and posts on this subject but failed to find advise that applies to my situation. I'm about to have my first meeting with a financial adviser and would like to do a little homework on the subject.

Returned to Switzerland just under 4 years ago after more that 30 years living in sunny Scotland. I've been self employed all that time and accrued a personal pension pot in excess of £100K. I don't trust the pound and I've got this uneasy feeling that the UK Government will try to squeeze the ex-pats for cash to shore up its finances and I am therefore seriously considering moving my pension pot to Switzerland.

Although I have been working in Switzerland part time in the last 4 years (but no longer) I do not have any kind of Swiss pension at all and as far as I can make out my only options are to transfer my pension pot to a QROPS approved account in Switzerland. I can then either cash in the fund and pay the UK Tax man 55% or leave the fund intact and generate as much income as possible then cash it in after 10 years without incurring any UK tax.

Off course ideally I would like to use the pot for what it was intended for in the first place i.e. to provide a lifetime income but my only option appears to be a Leibrente which as far as I can make out is expensive to set up and doesn't provide great returns and on top of it is 40% taxable.

Advise greatly entgegengenommen.
I agree with reb77br be wary of any salesman. There are way to get pension out of the UK to a Swiss QROPS eg Pictet FZ account without any costs.

Concerning the optimal method to extract the money/income on retirement you need to get proper advice.

How close are you to retirement age and since when have you been Swiss resident?
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Old 11.01.2013, 20:46
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Re: QROPS without Pillar2

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Please don't groan just yet.

Searched many a thread and posts on this subject but failed to find advise that applies to my situation. I'm about to have my first meeting with a financial adviser and would like to do a little homework on the subject.

Returned to Switzerland just under 4 years ago after more that 30 years living in sunny Scotland. I've been self employed all that time and accrued a personal pension pot in excess of £100K. I don't trust the pound and I've got this uneasy feeling that the UK Government will try to squeeze the ex-pats for cash to shore up its finances and I am therefore seriously considering moving my pension pot to Switzerland.

Although I have been working in Switzerland part time in the last 4 years (but no longer) I do not have any kind of Swiss pension at all and as far as I can make out my only options are to transfer my pension pot to a QROPS approved account in Switzerland. I can then either cash in the fund and pay the UK Tax man 55% or leave the fund intact and generate as much income as possible then cash it in after 10 years without incurring any UK tax.

Off course ideally I would like to use the pot for what it was intended for in the first place i.e. to provide a lifetime income but my only option appears to be a Leibrente which as far as I can make out is expensive to set up and doesn't provide great returns and on top of it is 40% taxable.

Advise greatly entgegengenommen.
In a UK scheme, there is no requirement to hold any Uk assets, so your currency 'issue' is a non issue.
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Old 14.01.2013, 17:50
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Re: QROPS without Pillar2

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In a UK scheme, there is no requirement to hold any Uk assets, so your currency 'issue' is a non issue.
Sorry I don't understand
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Old 14.01.2013, 17:53
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Re: QROPS without Pillar2

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I agree with reb77br be wary of any salesman. There are way to get pension out of the UK to a Swiss QROPS eg Pictet FZ account without any costs.

Concerning the optimal method to extract the money/income on retirement you need to get proper advice.

How close are you to retirement age and since when have you been Swiss resident?
I am retired more or less now but will be 65 in a couple of years.
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Old 14.01.2013, 18:04
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Re: QROPS without Pillar2

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You're about to have a first meeting with a salesman posing as a financial adviser who will say what it takes to convince you (1) that he and his company are qualified to give you financial advice and (2) that you should transfer your money to a scheme that will cream off a large chunk of your savings in commission and fees.

You should check out threads like these:

3rd pillar from Generali?

http://www.englishforum.ch/finance-b...s-warning.html

http://www.englishforum.ch/finance-b...ors-prowl.html

Fund management entity structures: Is this legal?
I take your warning on board but with regards to the suggested threads I find I get bogged down with the general chit chat and off topic posts. Have you any personal views on Leibrenten and do you share my views about the Pound and the threat to UK pensions from desperate politicians?
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Old 14.01.2013, 18:25
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Re: QROPS without Pillar2

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Sorry I don't understand
You could hold 100% Chinese shares in a UK pension if you wanted, very few restrictions.
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Old 14.01.2013, 18:27
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Re: QROPS without Pillar2

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I take your warning on board but with regards to the suggested threads I find I get bogged down with the general chit chat and off topic posts. Have you any personal views on Leibrenten and do you share my views about the Pound and the threat to UK pensions from desperate politicians?
Not really the £ is unloved, you would be surprised how many people were selling the £ for CHF @ 1.20

When you look at the actions of the SNB then the CHF will be toast before long.
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Old 14.01.2013, 21:22
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Re: QROPS without Pillar2

Keep your pension savings referenced to the currency you intend to spend the money in to live in retirement.

As the adage goes if you really know any better you wouldn't be worried your your pension as you'd be rich as cresus anyway.
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Old 14.01.2013, 21:29
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Re: QROPS without Pillar2

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Keep your pension savings referenced to the currency you intend to spend the money in to live in retirement.

As the adage goes if you really know any better you wouldn't be worried your your pension as you'd be rich as cresus anyway.
Only true if your fairly near retirement, if you have a long time to go I think thats bad advise. Anyone investing 50% of their pensions 15 years ago in China / India & Brazil will have a very much better retirement than investing in the their local markets (UK; UK; EU)

Generally putting all your eggs in 1 basket is not good, however it's advised for risk adverse........
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Old 14.01.2013, 21:35
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Re: QROPS without Pillar2

The OP is in retirement mode.

Your FX gambles could indeed be part of a much riskier portfolio strategy if you have a longer horizon.

If that's your case, out curiosity are you 50pct in emerging market currencies as you recommend?

Oops mustn't upset the OP with chit chat he'd have to read through to get his answer.. ;->
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Old 14.01.2013, 21:42
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Re: QROPS without Pillar2

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The OP is in retirement mode.

Your FX gambles could indeed be part of a much riskier portfolio strategy if you have a longer horizon.

If that's your case, out curiosity are you 50pct in emerging market currencies as you recommend?

Oops mustn't upset the OP with chit chat he'd have to read through to get his answer.. ;->
Not any more, now 90% USD investments, as the US has been written off by most, I think it's attractive.
Currently I am 50, & will retire within 5 years, in spite of the fact I can't even get my hands on 'retirement assets', so I don't advise 'locking up' investments at all unless you really want to go on working.........

The risk to me is having to work longer, I was supposed to be able to get my UK pension from 50, however they changed the law.

Edit

I am not a US person & don't have the possibility to live in the US, just think it's cheap, relative to other markets.
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Old 14.01.2013, 21:53
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Re: QROPS without Pillar2

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Not any more, now 90% USD investments, as the US has been written off by most, I think it's attractive.
Currently I am 50, & will retire within 5 years, in spite of the fact I can't even get my hands on 'retirement assets', so I don't advise 'locking up' investments at all unless you really want to go on working.........

The risk to me is having to work longer, I was supposed to be able to get my UK pension from 50, however they changed the law.

Edit

I am not a US person & don't have the possibility to live in the US, just think it's cheap, relative to other markets.
Literally your money where you mouth is! Respect.
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Old 14.01.2013, 22:03
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Re: QROPS without Pillar2

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Literally your money where you mouth is! Respect.
HaHa, I would not trust a financial advisor!
Investing in assets that have generally performed badly over the last 10 years will in all likelihood outperform investments that have done well over the last 10 years. Therefore I have zero invested in gold or bonds of any sort, both I consider highly dangerous 'safe' investments.

Edit
My other point is that I have possibly 40 years to live, so my investment horizon is still very long, the last thing I want to do is cash out & buy an annuity! 90% in Equities should take care of future inflation as well.

Perhaps being freelance and having a variable income over the last 30 years gives me a different insight, my past earnings have always fluctuated from -50% to +100% year to year, why should I wish to fix my potential income because I stop working?
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Old 15.01.2013, 10:38
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Re: QROPS without Pillar2

Some links:
Who took my pension?
Alberta Securities videos
FSA videos
Finra risk meter and scam meter
Motley Fool boards

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I take your warning on board but with regards to the suggested threads I find I get bogged down with the general chit chat and off topic posts. Have you any personal views on Leibrenten and do you share my views about the Pound and the threat to UK pensions from desperate politicians?
You need to decide that for yourself based on your own research. If you'd rather not think about it, or prefer let others do the thinking/reading for you, you're at risk of rushing into something unwise and/or letting yourself be persuaded into something that is not in your own financial interests. I'm saying this, as I fell into that trap a few years ago after listening to and taking the advice of someone who claimed to be a financial adviser and who worked for what appeared to be a financial advisory firm. Now, I would not consult anyone on financial matters who was not qualified to give financial advice (as opposed to having fictitious/worthless qualifications) and who was not approved/regulated by a stringent financial regulator in my country of residence and would endeavour to satisfy myself that I understood the product rather than just being convinced by someone who appeared to be an expert.

Last edited by Reb77Br; 15.01.2013 at 11:10.
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Old 15.01.2013, 10:49
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Re: QROPS without Pillar2

I have just transferred my fund from the UK.
There were some small costs from the UK fund to make the transfer.
There were no costs to receive it in Switzerland.
You can put it into a 2 nd pillar account with Credit Suisse and make 1.12% tax free and it does not need to be declared on your tax return, neither the income or wealth.
If you want a potential higher return then it may involve management fees,
There is a specific requirement that a certain amount of the fund must be in Swiss Francs, cannot remember the exact figure but I think around 80%.
Beware of anyone who says they need a high fee to manage the transfer!
Go to your bank, they will work with a qualified QROPs provider in Switzerland.
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Old 15.01.2013, 20:27
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Re: QROPS without Pillar2

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I have just transferred my fund from the UK.
There were some small costs from the UK fund to make the transfer.
There were no costs to receive it in Switzerland.
You can put it into a 2 nd pillar account with Credit Suisse and make 1.12% tax free and it does not need to be declared on your tax return, neither the income or wealth.
If you want a potential higher return then it may involve management fees,
There is a specific requirement that a certain amount of the fund must be in Swiss Francs, cannot remember the exact figure but I think around 80%.
Beware of anyone who says they need a high fee to manage the transfer!
Go to your bank, they will work with a qualified QROPs provider in Switzerland.
How do I transfer it into a 2 nd pillar account if I don't have one?
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Old 15.01.2013, 21:22
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Re: QROPS without Pillar2

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How do I transfer it into a 2 nd pillar account if I don't have one?
Open one! With a bank a "freizugigkeitskonto/compte de libre passage".
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Old 31.01.2013, 20:17
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Re: QROPS without Pillar2

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Open one! With a bank a "freizugigkeitskonto/compte de libre passage".
Interesting!
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