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Old 22.02.2013, 15:49
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Advantages of keeping US citizenship

Seems that this issue is discussed from time to time but mostly relating to tax advantages, political discontent and general quality of life. However, I haven't seen a thread discussing the advantages of maintaining the blue passport even if the red one becomes available. Dual nationality works for many things but obviously not all.

Myself, I'll be eligible this year to get the Suisse passport and struggle to find many credible reasons for keeping the blue - I live here, my wife is Suisse, family and great life here. I do, like many here I imagine, also have ties still to the US and would enjoy visiting from time to time but no intention of living there again. Even if we tired of Suisse at some point, I imagined we'd look else where in the world to live rather than a return to the US which makes keeping the blue passport a question to consider beyond the tax issues. I suppose even if in some bizarre scenario I were to even get divorced, I just don't view the US as an option going forward.

So why keep the blue apart from the fact that is where I was born. A passport won't change where I'm from/born and little I can't do with a red passport - even visit more countries than the blue. Family back home never really manage to make a compelling argument beyond the 'you never know' scenario - presumably in the event of some WWIII scenario where the US is interning people around the planet. Of course, the Suisse seem to benefit from political anonymity unlike just about any other citizen on the planet.

So curious what EFers who have either given up the blue or are pondering it would view the advantages of keeping the blue passport? Is the possibility of being denied re-entry even for a visit for ex-citizens a reasonable argument to consider or is this merely a scare tactic?
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Old 22.02.2013, 15:56
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Re: Advantages of keeping US citizenship

If I thought there was an advantage to keeping it, I would have.

But I didn't.

Tom
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Old 22.02.2013, 16:05
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Re: Advantages of keeping US citizenship

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So curious what EFers who have either given up the blue or are pondering it would view the advantages of keeping the blue passport? Is the possibility of being denied re-entry even for a visit for ex-citizens a reasonable argument to consider or is this merely a scare tactic?
Valid question, thanks.

But why would you not be allowed entry into the US if you no longer have the blue passport? Once you are no longer a US person, you are handled like any other foreigner that travels into and throughout the states on a daily basis - for business and pleasure. Same as any other country around this planet, you keep out of trouble in their country... then you are welcome back any time (of course to spend your money ).

Arrival in the US with the blue is not necessarily easier. Ask Tom.... Tom?

Advantages? Having grown up in the states then relocating to Switzerland, I can offer this from a different perspective... These days there is little advantage, if any. Earlier (pre-late 80's, early 90's), yes. The blue passport was respected. Being an American too, at least in a general sense.

Otherwise, I don't see any current advantages.
JC
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Old 22.02.2013, 16:06
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Re: Advantages of keeping US citizenship

I entertain fleeting fantasies about retiring to a ranch in Wyoming on with my Swiss retirement fund.
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Old 22.02.2013, 16:15
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Re: Advantages of keeping US citizenship

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I entertain fleeting fantasies about retiring to a ranch in Wyoming on with my Swiss retirement fund.
[where the judicial whiz-bangs, FBI, sheriff, police and post office inspectors will be fighting about who is going to come and confiscate everything because your Swiss-Retirement money could have been drug money]
JC

Reference: the numerous Property Forfeiture cases in the states

Sorry FCB - had to drop that in there, thanks.
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Old 22.02.2013, 16:17
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Re: Advantages of keeping US citizenship

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Seems that this issue is discussed from time to time but mostly relating to tax advantages, political discontent and general quality of life. However, I haven't seen a thread discussing the advantages of maintaining the blue passport even if the red one becomes available. Dual nationality works for many things but obviously not all.

Myself, I'll be eligible this year to get the Suisse passport and struggle to find many credible reasons for keeping the blue - I live here, my wife is Suisse, family and great life here. I do, like many here I imagine, also have ties still to the US and would enjoy visiting from time to time but no intention of living there again. Even if we tired of Suisse at some point, I imagined we'd look else where in the world to live rather than a return to the US which makes keeping the blue passport a question to consider beyond the tax issues. I suppose even if in some bizarre scenario I were to even get divorced, I just don't view the US as an option going forward.

So why keep the blue apart from the fact that is where I was born. A passport won't change where I'm from/born and little I can't do with a red passport - even visit more countries than the blue. Family back home never really manage to make a compelling argument beyond the 'you never know' scenario - presumably in the event of some WWIII scenario where the US is interning people around the planet. Of course, the Suisse seem to benefit from political anonymity unlike just about any other citizen on the planet.

So curious what EFers who have either given up the blue or are pondering it would view the advantages of keeping the blue passport? Is the possibility of being denied re-entry even for a visit for ex-citizens a reasonable argument to consider or is this merely a scare tactic?
There was a recent post asking this same question - someone in the thread was worried about potential future health problems of family in the US and difficulties visiting/staying to care for them if needed. So - that's one reason, though perhaps not compelling to you. (Found it here as part of a similar thread: Questions for people who have relinquished US citizenship)

Last edited by anowheels; 22.02.2013 at 16:22. Reason: found post
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Old 22.02.2013, 16:25
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Re: Advantages of keeping US citizenship

My thinking is similar to yours FCBarca. My life for many years now has been in Britain and more recently here; my husband is British. We've recently bought a house here, but if things changed and we had to think of moving elsewhere it wouldn't be to the US. My OH has no desire to seek work there so Britain would be where we'd go, his work permitting.

Since I left in 1968 I can count a total of 4 trips back to the US with the total time spent there 6 months. Yes, I have family there and enjoy the infrequent visits when we can manage it, but - it's not enough to make me hang on to the blue book any longer. Although I was proud to be the first American born in our family group it isn't the America I grew up in. And I am no longer "American" in my thinking; my world view has changed and grown. To a certain extent I feel alien when I visit because I see things differently to the way my family there does.

If America is mean enough to exclude me making any future visits just because I've renounced so be it. As I can only us maybe making one more trip in future, it's not going to be a great loss if we can't. I keep in touch with letters and e-mails and that will continue regardless.

It's a personal choice and I'm sure there are many valid reasons for people to keep their citizenship. It's just none of them are valid for me.
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Old 22.02.2013, 17:16
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Re: Advantages of keeping US citizenship

It seems increasingly that everything is stacked against keeping it. I was hoping that the lawmakers in the US might wake up to this but the evidence is to the contary. The talk is about making things more difficult (i.e, stop that capital flight, go get that Facebook renouncee, lets create jobs in the homeland, etc.).
I can only think of the following avantages:
- Change in a desire to return to the US
- If those inheriting your assets after death are US persons, they will have to pay a much bigger tax.
- With a CH pension you could have a McMansion (but then you could have an even bigger one in Costa Rica)
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Old 22.02.2013, 17:20
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Re: Advantages of keeping US citizenship

For me it's definitely the what - if scenario, although I will add that I do not earn money here so am not affected by double taxation. I mentioned it once in passing to my family with all the FATCA stuff going on and my mom nearly freaked out. Which is odd, considering that at 20 she married an American, moved to the US, became a US citizen and gave up her Austrian one


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I entertain fleeting fantasies about retiring to a ranch in Wyoming on with my Swiss retirement fund.
I do often wonder what health insuarnce battles lie ahead of us as we age - if we are "stuck" somewhere because moving and getting health care at age 65 will be quite expensive/impossible. Maybe there will be global care, then!
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Old 22.02.2013, 17:38
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Re: Advantages of keeping US citizenship

I see more liabilities than advantages. The US of today is not the US of the 1950s and 1960s; those days are long gone. In terms of culture, values and vitality, the US is a very different country.

If a family member has health issues, I'll apply to have them relocated to Switzerland for care, possible to do with a CH passport.

And if there is a global crisis, you can guarantee CH will be the prime safe-haven globally, as it has been continuously for the past 200 years. There are only two countries in the world in the 1930s and 1940s where one would have lived solidly in a stable democracy without the threat of being drafted sent to the front lines of a war: Switzerland and Sweden.

Last time CH experienced conflict in its territory: Guerre de Sonderbund in 1847, which laste 4 weeks and caused less than 100 dead and circa 500 wounded.

Last time US experienced conflict in its territory: Civil War in the 1860s, which caused circa 700,000 deaths and 400,000 wounded.

The record speaks for itself.
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Old 22.02.2013, 18:32
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Re: Advantages of keeping US citizenship

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\
But why would you not be allowed entry into the US if you no longer have the blue passport? Once you are no longer a US person, you are handled like any other foreigner that travels into and throughout the states on a daily basis - for business and pleasure. Same as any other country around this planet, you keep out of trouble in their country... then you are welcome back any time (of course to spend your money ).
I've heard that the US reserves the right to deny entry to those who have renounced

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For me it's definitely the what - if scenario, although I will add that I do not earn money here so am not affected by double taxation. I mentioned it once in passing to my family with all the FATCA stuff going on and my mom nearly freaked out.
Same, my mother & father, while very high on Suisse, really are concerned about me giving up the blue - still, their arguments (Like many in the US, sadly) aren't really convincing
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Old 22.02.2013, 19:18
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Re: Advantages of keeping US citizenship

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I've heard that the US reserves the right to deny entry to those who have renounced
I thought the US has the right to deny entry to any foreigner.. I am not sure if this happens more often to the former US citizens.
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Old 22.02.2013, 19:19
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I can only think of the following avantages:
- Change in a desire to return to the US
- If those inheriting your assets after death are US persons, they will have to pay a much bigger tax.
Sorry, did you mean to say something else on the 2nd point?

Dan
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Old 22.02.2013, 19:26
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Re: Advantages of keeping US citizenship

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I've heard that the US reserves the right to deny entry to those who have renounced
If you would please provide a source for this FCB, as I have heard or read nothing of the sort - just the opposite to be exact.

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I do often wonder what health insuarnce battles lie ahead of us as we age - if we are "stuck" somewhere because moving and getting health care at age 65 will be quite expensive/impossible. Maybe there will be global care, then!
According to my sources - a letter from the US Social Security system a while back (early 2000s), the Social Security system would run out of money by this year (yes, 2013) if they didn't find another source of income for the SS. I didn't follow up, so I don't know the current status. However, I seriously doubt there will be anything left in the pot when I retire. Just look at the holes in the system now

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- Change in a desire to return to the US
- If those inheriting your assets after death are US persons, they will have to pay a much bigger tax.
- With a CH pension you could have a McMansion (but then you could have an even bigger one in Costa Rica)
1. Thanks, but no thanks
2. If there is anything left over
3. I vote for Costa Rica
JC
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Old 22.02.2013, 19:26
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Re: Advantages of keeping US citizenship

I renounced long before FATCA, but I could read the writing on the wall.

But more importantly, I didn't like that US citizens must use a US passport to enter/leave the US, and while I know several people who use their Swiss passports to enter/leave the US, I object to that on moral grounds, and thus, rather than renew my two-year expired US passport that I had used twice in it's lifetime, I preferred to renounce.

Tom
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Old 22.02.2013, 19:27
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Re: Advantages of keeping US citizenship

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I thought the US has the right to deny entry to any foreigner.. I am not sure if this happens more often to the former US citizens.
If that is the catch-all clause... then every country reserves that right. Though not often practiced, Switzerland too.
JC
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Old 22.02.2013, 20:33
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Re: Advantages of keeping US citizenship

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If you would please provide a source for this FCB, as I have heard or read nothing of the sort - just the opposite to be exact.
JC, there has been mention over on IBS that some Senators/Representatives would like to bring in a law that bans anyone who renounces from ever being allowed in the country again. So far it's only talk, but it's definitely on some peoples' minds in the US.
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Old 22.02.2013, 20:47
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Re: Advantages of keeping US citizenship

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JC, there has been mention over on IBS that some Senators/Representatives would like to bring in a law that bans anyone who renounces from ever being allowed in the country again. So far it's only talk, but it's definitely on some peoples' minds in the US.
From what I have heard and read, there are far worse things on US people's mind than just that, many lies and stereotyping going on too.

However, if such a bill is passed, then it shows true face and how ignorant those jokers in DC really are. If it goes that far, then they are not welcome in my house!

I would still put some value on the family-visa angle.
JC
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Old 22.02.2013, 20:51
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Re: Advantages of keeping US citizenship

Its a matter of personal choice, I think. I won't give up mine, but that's MY choice. Others may wish to do differently and that's fine. They shouldn't be blacklisted from visiting the country, however. Coming from a tourist state, I'm happy to take their money.
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Old 22.02.2013, 20:55
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I would say employment is also a reason. At least for me and in my field, there are many more jobs back in California.

Also, I have no choice. If I gave up mine, my wife would divorce me and move back since she'd be convinced that I was trying to keep her here. And she's the Swiss one!

Dan
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