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  #21  
Old 30.05.2015, 22:47
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Re: getting back VAT, buying from amazon.de

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Anybody else noticed that Amazon.de are no longer putting invoices in the packages they send out??

To pre-empt the obvious question, items were purchased direct from Amazon.

Looks like you can print your own invoices, maybe it's a cost saving by Amazon.
Usually you can Print your own invoice, if not just ask Amazon by Email for a copy.
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Old 30.05.2015, 23:44
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Re: getting back VAT, buying from amazon.de

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Anybody else noticed that Amazon.de are no longer putting invoices in the packages they send out??

To pre-empt the obvious question, items were purchased direct from Amazon.

Looks like you can print your own invoices, maybe it's a cost saving by Amazon.
That's exactly right - cost saving from Amazon's side. In fairness, I guess 99% private customers will never care about their bills.

As you already mention, the bills can be printed, stamped and returned to Amazon (to the address mentioned earlier in this thread) and the refund works just as well as it always did.

Rgds, Christian
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Old 02.08.2015, 15:48
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Re: getting back VAT, buying from amazon.de

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That's exactly right - cost saving from Amazon's side. In fairness, I guess 99% private customers will never care about their bills.

As you already mention, the bills can be printed, stamped and returned to Amazon (to the address mentioned earlier in this thread) and the refund works just as well as it always did.

Rgds, Christian


Hi,


Very informative post, thanks!


Will the process work if I provide a Swiss bank account or a Swiss credit card number? I don't have a German bank account for them to send the refund.


Cheers!
  #24  
Old 02.08.2015, 15:59
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Re: getting back VAT, buying from amazon.de

Here de Amayon.de page about the process
https://www.amazon.de/gp/help/custom...deId=201248630

From there:
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Nach Bearbeitung erstatten wir den Umsatzsteuerbetrag auf das bei der Bestellung angegebene Bank- beziehungsweise Kreditkartenkonto. Bitte senden Sie keine Bankdaten per E-Mail oder Briefpost. Eine Erstattung auf eine andere Zahlungsart ist nicht möglich.
VAT will be reimpursend on bank account or credit card used for order. No other options are possible. Please do not send any bank detail by mails (e or snail)
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Old 02.08.2015, 16:27
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Re: getting back VAT, buying from amazon.de

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Here de Amayon.de page about the process
https://www.amazon.de/gp/help/custom...deId=201248630

From there:


VAT will be reimpursend on bank account or credit card used for order. No other options are possible. Please do not send any bank detail by mails (e or snail)

Hi!


After I posted my question, I decided to try out my German skills and chatted with Amazon.de's online helpdesk. That's exactly what they told me.


They also send me additional information...


Guten Tag,

Sie haben Ihren Wohnsitz im Ausland (nicht EU) und möchten die bei uns bestellten Waren ausführen? Gerne erstatten wir Ihnen die Umsatzsteuer.

Für die Erstattung muss folgende gesetzliche Frist gewahrt werden, zu der die Ausfuhr erfolgt sein muss: Vor Ablauf des dritten Kalendermonats, der auf den Monat der Lieferung folgt.

Wir bitten Sie aus gesetzlichen Gründen nur noch um den Nachweis

* dass Ihr Wohnsitz im Ausland (*nicht* EU) ist, sofern sich dies nicht aus der Ausfuhrbestätigung des Zolls ergibt, und
* dass die Amazon.de-Artikel am Zoll von Ihnen ausgeführt wurden.

Bitte schicken Sie die beiden Dokumente wie auch die Rechnung (unbedingt notwendig!) an:

Amazon.de
Umsatzsteuererstattung
Im Gewerbepark D 55
93059 Regensburg
Deutschland

Nach Eingang erstatten wir den Umsatzsteuerbetrag auf das bei der Bestellung angegebene Bank- beziehungsweise Kreditkartenkonto.

Falls Sie für Ihre Unterlagen eine Rechnung benötigen, können Sie diese selbst ausdrucken. Klicken Sie dazu unter Meine Bestellungen (
https://www.amazon.de/meine-bestellungen ) bei der gewünschten Bestellung auf den Link Bestelldetails. Dort finden Sie rechts oben die Option zum Ausdrucken.

Keine Ausfuhr erworbener Ware im persönlichen Reisegepäck stellt ein Fahrzeug, seine Bestandteile und sein Zubehör dar oder wenn der Käufer die Ware durch einen Spediteur, durch Bahn oder Post oder durch einen sonstigen Frachtführer versendet oder wenn er die Ware nicht im üblichen Reisegepäck befördert, sondern z. B. Möbel oder größere Haushaltsgeräte in einem eigenen oder gemieteten Lastkraftwagen dorthin transportiert. Bitte haben Sie Verständnis dafür, dass in diesen Fällen keine Erstattung erfolgen kann.

Wenn Sie Waren nicht von Amazon.de direkt, sondern von einem Drittanbieter wie Verkaufspartner oder Verkäufer bei Amazon.de Marketplace bezogen haben, wenden Sie sich wegen der Umsatzsteuer ausschließlich an diesen. Wir stellen hier lediglich die Handelsplattform dar. Ob Sie eine Ware von einem Dritthändler oder von uns erhalten haben, sehen Sie auf Ihrer Rechnung.

Gerne stehen wir Ihnen bei weiteren Fragen zur Verfügung.



I hope this helps.
  #26  
Old 02.08.2015, 17:26
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Re: getting back VAT, buying from amazon.de

Hi Community,

I wanted to share with you all the steps to get your VAT back, I confirmed this with Amazon.de support team:

Make sure you set as billing address your Swiss Address (the same in your permit), you can set your delivery address different, I for example set it to a Swiss Paket address. But having in the billing address the Swiss one, helps everything be a bit smoother.

1) Get the invoice of your orders sold by Amazon.de directly and print them. Orders sold by a third party cannot get the tax refunded by Amazon this has to be done by that third party. If you are buying something expensive, it might be worth checking first with the seller if they will do the VAT return at all. I had the situation where sometimes they wouldn't even do it (not sure if this is even legal though).

2) When you go and pick up the goods in Germany, go with the invoices to customs and get them stamped. In theory they are entitled to check the products when you are exporting them (taking them out from the country) but this really never happened to me nor anybody I know. It doesnt matter if the invoice is not from the same day you make the invoice stamp, what matters is the moment you are exporting the goods from the country.

3) Send the stamped invoices and a copy of your Swiss Residence Permit or Passport where it shows you live in Switzerland to the following address by normal post:

Amazon.de
Umsatzsteuererstattung
Im Gewerbepark D 55
93059 Regensburg
Deutschland

4) You will receive the money of the VAT on the credit card which you use to
make the purchase.

The whole process could get a couple of weeks to finish, but this is how the Amazon.de support people confirmed it works.

I personally buy stuff from anywhere from Europe and make it deliver to my Swiss Paket address which is free and they just charge me around 2.5 Euros per package when I look for them (they charge more for bigger packages, check their website for more info). Whenever I receive something, they send me an email letting me know that I receive something from "Seller X".

This way I save a lot of money on products that in Switzerland sometimes can be even double the price. Logically the previously described steps work for products acquired in Amazon.de (Germany VAT).

Hope this helps anybody seeking for confirmation of the steps.
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  #27  
Old 02.08.2015, 19:55
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Re: getting back VAT, buying from amazon.de

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...Will the process work if I provide a Swiss bank account or a Swiss credit card number? I don't have a German bank account for them to send the refund...
While your question is already answered, why don't you get a free EUR-account with dkb.de or comdirect.de (for example) anyway? Like this you can pay in the whole EUR-zone, without any silly fees, markups and/or crappy exchange rates. With an EUR-account you can exchange your funds through currencyfair and/or transferwise, and avail of really good fx-rates.

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...it might be worth checking first with the seller if they will do the VAT return at all. I had the situation where sometimes they wouldn't even do it (not sure if this is even legal though)...
It is legal - the vendor CAN, but does not have to, issue a VAT refund to you.

If the vendor confirms he will do it, then (and only then) this agreement becomes part of the buying contract, and only then is he legally obliged to give it to you.

PS - I also don't like it, please don't kill the messenger.
  #28  
Old 02.08.2015, 20:29
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Re: getting back VAT, buying from amazon.de

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It is legal - the vendor CAN, but does not have to, issue a VAT refund to you.

If the vendor confirms he will do it, then (and only then) this agreement becomes part of the buying contract, and only then is he legally obliged to give it to you.

PS - I also don't like it, please don't kill the messenger.
Can still kill the messenger when he is wrong.

If the seller sells aboard he MUST not charge VAT. It is not an option as he is not allowed to charge it by the German law: http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/ustg_1980/

It is an Ausfuhrlieferung according to §6 Section (1) Item 2, which is tax exempt according to § 4 Item 1 a) , which according to § 9 cannot be voluntarily be taxed.

As soon as the seller has the prove that it is a tax exempt sale he must reimburse you.

Note: Goods for equipping or supplying means of transport are not tax exempt when exported personally by a private person § 6 Section (3) . (They are tax exempt when directly send aboard by a courier §6 Section (1) Item 1)
http://www.zoll.de/EN/Private-indivi...ping_node.html
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  #29  
Old 02.08.2015, 20:48
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Re: getting back VAT, buying from amazon.de

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Can still kill the messenger when he is wrong.
While I´d prefer you hadn't (verbally) killed me, we are both correct

What you cite applies when (1) the vendor delivers the product to you directly from Germany to your address in Switzerland by courier (Post, DPD, UPS, etc...).

However, the question in this thread revolves around (2) articles which are shipped within(!) Germany first, and subsequently(!) picked up in Germany and then(!) exported by a private person, while privately crossing the border ("Export im Reiseverkehr"), leaving the EU.

In case #1 the vendor is not allowed to charge VAT in the first place (as you correctly say).

In case #2 the vendor is obliged to charge VAT, because it cannot be guaranteed that the product will ever leave the EU-customs-area. It CAN then be refunded, if proof of export is produced (usually in the form of a stamped bill). In this case the vendor is NOT obliged to issue a refund. Most do, because they realise how much business they'd lose if they don't. But some just do not issue refunds, and it is their right to refuse it.
  #30  
Old 02.08.2015, 20:54
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Re: getting back VAT, buying from amazon.de

Stupid Quote and Edit bug.

I see you are still alive. Lets stab the issue too

Quote:
In this case the vendor is NOT obliged to issue a refund. Most do, because they realise how much business they'd lose if they don't. But some just do not issue refunds, and it is their right to refuse it.
No. As soon as he received the need papers stamped by customs it becomes an Ausfuhrlieferung as well. Just like when he had sent the goods directly aboard. He can no longer charge VAT at this point, not by law.
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Old 02.08.2015, 23:50
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Re: getting back VAT, buying from amazon.de

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As soon as he received the need papers stamped by customs it becomes an Ausfuhrlieferung as well. Just like when he had sent the goods directly aboard. He can no longer charge VAT at this point, not by law.
I am afraid you are missing the point. The seller had to charge VAT for his shipment to an address within Germany (as pointed out by Chris). In case there is a subsequent export it is at the vendor's discretion whether or not to refund VAT, since the vendor did not export the goods, but the buyer.
  #32  
Old 03.08.2015, 00:06
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Re: getting back VAT, buying from amazon.de

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I am afraid you are missing the point. The seller had to charge VAT for his shipment to an address within Germany (as pointed out by Chris). In case there is a subsequent export it is at the vendor's discretion whether or not to refund VAT, since the vendor did not export the goods, but the buyer.
Guys, this is exactly what the 2 vendors I tried to get my VAT back from said. We do not give VAT back, thats why we only sell within Germany. What I dont know is that if even they sell within Germany, if the goods are then exported to Switzerland by the buyer, is he obligated to by law to still give the VAT back according to German law? This maybe can be responded by a German lawyer or TAX specialist :/
  #33  
Old 03.08.2015, 11:37
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Re: getting back VAT, buying from amazon.de

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Guys, this is exactly what the 2 vendors I tried to get my VAT back from said. We do not give VAT back, thats why we only sell within Germany. What I dont know is that if even they sell within Germany, if the goods are then exported to Switzerland by the buyer, is he obligated to by law to still give the VAT back according to German law? This maybe can be responded by a German lawyer or TAX specialist :/
The hint is in the underlined part of my previous post. FYI: I am a German lawyer (although this is obviously no legal advise).
But let's assume that aSwissintheUS is correct: You'd have to take the seller to court if they do not share this opinion.
  #34  
Old 03.08.2015, 11:53
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Re: getting back VAT, buying from amazon.de

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We do not give VAT back, thats why we only sell within Germany. What I dont know is that if even they sell within Germany, if the goods are then exported to Switzerland by the buyer, is he obligated to by law to still give the VAT back according to German law? T
It may be a difference if the billing address on the invoice is aboard/Switzerland or domestic/Germany. At the moment I have two bills one which has a Swiss billing address and one which has a German billing address. I attached an Ausfuhrschein to the one with the German address and got it stamped at the border.

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But let's assume that aSwissintheUS is correct: You'd have to take the seller to court if they do not share this opinion.
Thats the problem. You have to sue to get the VAT back. Additional problems, seller may decided that in the future he will no longer sell any of his goods to person living in Switzerland. Not so good for you if seller's offers are good even w/o reclaiming VAT.

Edit: Allready reached todays quote.

I asked the question in a German law forum, let see what others think: http://www.123recht.net/forum_topic...._id=490446&p=1
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Last edited by aSwissInTheUS; 03.08.2015 at 12:36.
  #35  
Old 03.08.2015, 12:33
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Re: getting back VAT, buying from amazon.de

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No. As soon as he received the need papers stamped by customs it becomes an Ausfuhrlieferung as well. Just like when he had sent the goods directly aboard. He can no longer charge VAT at this point, not by law.
You have to read the law to the end, and not stop after finding what you like. If you read §6 (1) 2; it might indeed give the impression that you're right.

However, see §6 (4):
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/ustg_1980/__6.html
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(4) Die Voraussetzungen der Absätze 1, 3 und 3a sowie die Bearbeitung oder Verarbeitung im Sinne des Absatzes 1 Satz 2 müssen vom Unternehmer nachgewiesen sein. Das Bundesministerium der Finanzen kann mit Zustimmung des Bundesrates durch Rechtsverordnung bestimmen, wie der Unternehmer die Nachweise zu führen hat.
The "Rechtsverordnung" which determines how this works is called >>Umsatzsteuer-Anwendungserlass<<.

In this you can find lots of determinations on how things CAN be done, but nothing is obligatory if the company doesn't want to.

So while
  • § 6 (1) 1 (where a German company ships directly to non-EU) determines that VAT cannot be charged,
  • § 6 (1) 2 in combination with §6 (4) and the "Umsatzsteuer-Anwendungserlass" is much less clear.

I´m not a lawyer, but I´d strongly recommend saving on the legal expenses here, as it won't get you anywhere.

EDIT: curious to see what your questions in "123recht" will yield!

Last edited by ChrisNeedsToKnow; 03.08.2015 at 12:48.
  #36  
Old 09.10.2015, 18:31
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Re: getting back VAT, buying from amazon.de

Amazon has answered this question in their help section. This should help:

http://www.amazon.de/gp/help/custome...deId=201248730
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  #37  
Old 09.10.2015, 19:38
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Re: getting back VAT, buying from amazon.de

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Amazon has answered this question in their help section. This should help:

http://www.amazon.de/gp/help/custome...deId=201248730

The information on the Amazon site is outdated, and least for the time being incorrect. Please see: Impossible to reclaim German VAT for goods purchased online?
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