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  #41  
Old 06.05.2014, 11:14
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Re: Any reason not use UBS?

Yes, there lending criteria/valuations and how they calculate it is far from market place values.

We have banked and had a morgage with UBS for several years, when we started with them their rates were very competitive and their service advisors willing to find a solution to assist. Over the last year I have taken three proposals about property to them to evaluate. Despite these being self funding from rent and a large upside with non urgent renovations, all have been refused. The last one showing 7.3% return on current rents, total borrowing not exceeding 60% of current valuations but repayments at 42% of gross income (at the theoretical 5%) but actually about 20% at current fixed rates.

My biased theory is with all the dodgey deals they have done they don't have much access to cheap funds for housing anymore. So building a relationship with them to gain access to future finance is wasted given the overtly conservative nature of what they can offer.

On the upside, English is widely spoken and some communication is available in English, ATMs are widely available and their facilities to pay bills with the multimat and online are good.
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  #42  
Old 07.05.2014, 03:24
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Re: Any reason not use UBS?

For "US Persons" (passport or greencard) UBS is really the only option we have found. You must be resident in Switzerland, but you are able to have "normal" konto accounts, but not a brokerage account.
Not every UBS branch is capable of opening an account either, but once open, you are free to use any UBS branch. We opened in Bern, Interlaken was the only other one near us in Thun.
They also wanted 10 CHF per month, which we negotiated down to ZERO cost because we didn't need the Credit Card or the Debit Card. I imagine most of the cost was associated with the CC.
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  #43  
Old 07.05.2014, 09:31
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Re: Any reason not use UBS?

I have accounts with Postfinance and Bankcoop. Both are very good, although I must admit I find it easier to make payments from my Bankcoop account, as that doesn't need a card reader. You need to have quite a bit more money in a Bankcoop account before it's free though (15,000 chf I think, compared to 7,000).
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  #44  
Old 07.05.2014, 11:25
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Re: Any reason not use UBS?

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We've been using UBS now for 2 months since we arrived from the UK and they have been great. We get the first years banking free but then we'll need to decide what to do, as I'm not happy about paying for a bank to hold my money! Sounds like Post Finance are well recommended but will be annoying to change standing orders over etc.
That sounds like my account. After that first year, if you have CHF 10,000 across all your accounts by the end of the month, you dont pay the account fee.

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It's irrelevant, as to which bank owns which ATM - any bank card holder can use any machine, normally without penalty.
Not in Switzerland. UBS for example will tally up the number of times you used a non-UBS cash machine and charge you at the end of the month. 2CHF a pop (though if you negotiate you can normally get this rescinded).

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I am using UBS, Postfinance and Migros Cumulus ( credit card issued by Cembra Money Bank) all at the same time. I hate UBS for its outrageously high monthly fee, although I have to admit their e-banking is excellent. Anyway I highly recommend Postfinance and Migros Cumulus.
Outrageous? its 10chf a month. Free if you have over 10,000 CHF. hardly breaking the bank, even with less than 10K. (forgive the pun).

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I use UBS and am happy with them despite the charges. However, service is excellent as you can speak directly to a senior banker and can even e-mail them to do any FX transactions without giving your account number or swift code. In this day and age of call centres, how many bankers can honestly say they I know their customers on a personal level to the point of knowing the ages of their customers' children age.

From a fee and convenience point of view I think post finance wins hands down every time but I'm reluctant to move away from UBS because I can't take the risk of losing excellent personal customer service.
Good customer service is a rare and beautiful thing here. This is my reason to stay with them too.

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Yes but the key difference is with UBS you have a special card which can stay in the reader. With Postfinance you use your Bank card so you need to put it in and remember to take it out and put it back in your wallet everytime ( a real minus point in my mind)

you used to be able to keep the UBS card in the reader but they changed the reader now so the card is half in half out, its a pain in the backside to be honest.

But then again, 1st world problems right, if thats all we have to moan about
You can ask for a credit card sized deviced which replaces the reader. You dont need a seperate card for it either. Or, if you have an NFC enabled phone (which most modern phones are) you can order an NFC-Card, which removes the need for any code input altogether (if you're using internet banking from your phone)
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  #45  
Old 07.05.2014, 11:40
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Re: Any reason not use UBS?

Full disclosure:

I Bank with UBS, but have enough in my accounts not to trigger a monthly maintenence fee.

I have a number of Direct Debits, a monthly standing order going to a UK account, 2 credit cards, and use non-UBS ATMs frequently.

They usually rescind the ATM charges, so i pay approx 15Fr a month.

Compared to the convenience (and that fact that for that level of convenience, you would usually pay much more in Switzerland), and the english support and customer service, its not a bad price to be paying.
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  #46  
Old 08.05.2014, 00:03
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Re: Any reason not use UBS?

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Full disclosure:

I Bank with UBS, but have enough in my accounts not to trigger a monthly maintenence fee.

I have a number of Direct Debits, a monthly standing order going to a UK account, 2 credit cards, and use non-UBS ATMs frequently.

They usually rescind the ATM charges, so i pay approx 15Fr a month.

Compared to the convenience (and that fact that for that level of convenience, you would usually pay much more in Switzerland), and the english support and customer service, its not a bad price to be paying.
As of June UBS will be charging 2 francs for every withdrawal from a non UBS machine and unlike in the past, these fees will not be reversed regardless of the account balance or having a UBS mortgage.
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  #47  
Old 08.05.2014, 08:00
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Re: Any reason not use UBS?

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As of June UBS will be charging 2 francs for every withdrawal from a non UBS machine and unlike in the past, these fees will not be reversed regardless of the account balance or having a UBS mortgage.

Was about to post the same. Got the letter and it made me SO angry....

Anyway... At least my account is still free (only pay for the Maestro card), no chance I would give them 10 CHF a month for nothing....
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  #48  
Old 08.05.2014, 08:47
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Re: Any reason not use UBS?

It's been a while since I used a non UBS but if iirc they used to charge CHF3 per transaction and that's never changed as far as I know. Did they drop the charge somewhere along the way?
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  #49  
Old 08.05.2014, 09:06
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Re: Any reason not use UBS?

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It's been a while since I used a non UBS but if iirc they used to charge CHF3 per transaction and that's never changed as far as I know. Did they drop the charge somewhere along the way?
I used to pay CHF 0.50 per transaction, but that was 20+ years ago.

Transactions are certainly free since that time.

Tom
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  #50  
Old 08.05.2014, 10:52
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Re: Any reason not use UBS?

Sorry, I should have said non-UBS ATM transactions. They were CHF3 some years ago and still are as far as I know. But it's been a long time since I used a non-UBS ATM machine.
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  #51  
Old 08.05.2014, 11:24
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Re: Any reason not use UBS?

With PostFinance, your login credentials are not enough. In order to login you need to pull out your card and use their card reader device each time.

I think it would be reasonable to login just with your credentials (which does include a password), which is safe enough to access information such as your balance and movements - and only when doing transfers or other operations like that would you be required to increase the authentication through the card.

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I don't know how it is with UBS but I think they don't require a card reader device?
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  #52  
Old 08.05.2014, 11:25
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Re: Any reason not use UBS?

Yeah, i have to use the card reader every time I log in to UBS. It was/is the same for my HSBC account in the UK. And my Commonwealth Bank account in Australia. i think it's pretty standard nowadays. It is a bit of a fiddle though.
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  #53  
Old 08.05.2014, 11:33
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Re: Any reason not use UBS?

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Sorry, I should have said non-UBS ATM transactions. They were CHF3 some years ago and still are as far as I know. But it's been a long time since I used a non-UBS ATM machine.
I still pay nothing for those.

I often use a Raiffeisen ATM.

Tom
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  #54  
Old 08.05.2014, 11:56
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Re: Any reason not use UBS?

I left UBS last year after the Libor scandal and all the hidden charges getting out of hand. Not surprised to see it becoming even worse now.

Relatively happy after a year with PostFinance. No ATM charges, even abroad, if you have their Plus account, which is free if you have over a certain sum in your accounts. However, from my experience UBS service is better in the following areas:

-E-banking is a tad more convenient with UBS. Logging in is easier and everything works more smoothly. With UBS you can also scan payment slips on your smartphone app and then just OK them the next time you access e-banking. With the PostFinance app you need to log-in with the card reader no matter what features you want to use. I often find myself just saying "f**k it" and entering the reference code manually in e-banking because I'm already logged in and scanning it would require a separate log-in on my phone.

-I noticed with UBS that whatever payments I made with Maestro would appear much quicker in my historical balance, even in tentative form. With PostFinance, you have to wait until the next working morning for debit payments and over a day for credit card payments. The worst is, PostFinance recognizes you made a payment with your CC and adapts the remaining balance accordingly, you just can't see what the payments were for 24 hours or so. Annoying.

-Transfers happen earlier in the day with UBS. All the payments you OKed the day before will pass at around 5 AM and be visible to the creditor at the start of the day. PostFinance, I'm not sure when they do them. I get my SMS reminders at around 3PM the next day, although I think it happens a little earlier in the day, and usually isn't noticed by the creditor until the day after. Small inconvenience, but can get a little annoying when it's a Wednesday, you are ordering an item online, and know with PF's payment system you'll get the package in 3 working days (so, Monday), when with UBS it would have been sent the day after and delivered in 2 days flat just in time for the weekend.
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  #55  
Old 08.05.2014, 12:00
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Re: Any reason not use UBS?

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I still pay nothing for those.

I often use a Raiffeisen ATM.

Tom
Ah, must have dropped that a while ago then. And now they're bringing it back. Can't make up their minds I guess.
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  #56  
Old 08.05.2014, 12:18
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Re: Any reason not use UBS?

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As of June UBS will be charging 2 francs for every withdrawal from a non UBS machine and unlike in the past, these fees will not be reversed regardless of the account balance or having a UBS mortgage.
They're supposed to be charging me that now. When i opened my account with them i negotiated the terms, and they agreed that they would refund the non-UBS ATM charges in Switzerland, for as long as there was a minimum deposit into my account(s) every month. I have recieved no such letter, by the way.

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With PostFinance, your login credentials are not enough. In order to login you need to pull out your card and use their card reader device each time.

I think it would be reasonable to login just with your credentials (which does include a password), which is safe enough to access information such as your balance and movements - and only when doing transfers or other operations like that would you be required to increase the authentication through the card.
UBS mobile banking allows that. You only need the card reader (and if you have the NFC one, you dont actually need to do anything) for payments and transfers.

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Yeah, i have to use the card reader every time I log in to UBS. It was/is the same for my HSBC account in the UK. And my Commonwealth Bank account in Australia. i think it's pretty standard nowadays. It is a bit of a fiddle though.
Not for simple mobile banking.

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I left UBS last year after the Libor scandal and all the hidden charges getting out of hand. Not surprised to see it becoming even worse now.

Relatively happy after a year with PostFinance. No ATM charges, even abroad, if you have their Plus account, which is free if you have over a certain sum in your accounts. However, from my experience UBS service is better in the following areas:

-E-banking is a tad more convenient with UBS. Logging in is easier and everything works more smoothly. With UBS you can also scan payment slips on your smartphone app and then just OK them the next time you access e-banking. With the PostFinance app you need to log-in with the card reader no matter what features you want to use. I often find myself just saying "f**k it" and entering the reference code manually in e-banking because I'm already logged in and scanning it would require a separate log-in on my phone.

-I noticed with UBS that whatever payments I made with Maestro would appear much quicker in my historical balance, even in tentative form. With PostFinance, you have to wait until the next working morning for debit payments and over a day for credit card payments. The worst is, PostFinance recognizes you made a payment with your CC and adapts the remaining balance accordingly, you just can't see what the payments were for 24 hours or so. Annoying.

-Transfers happen earlier in the day with UBS. All the payments you OKed the day before will pass at around 5 AM and be visible to the creditor at the start of the day. PostFinance, I'm not sure when they do them. I get my SMS reminders at around 3PM the next day, although I think it happens a little earlier in the day, and usually isn't noticed by the creditor until the day after. Small inconvenience, but can get a little annoying when it's a Wednesday, you are ordering an item online, and know with PF's payment system you'll get the package in 3 working days (so, Monday), when with UBS it would have been sent the day after and delivered in 2 days flat just in time for the weekend.
It depends what value you place on having that information sooner. I like to know my finances first thing in the morning, so i dont mind paying a little extra (and it is only a little) to have that knowledge. Plus, 95% of my banking is online, so an easy online facility is important.
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  #57  
Old 08.05.2014, 14:58
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Re: Any reason not use UBS?

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They're supposed to be charging me that now. When i opened my account with them i negotiated the terms, and they agreed that they would refund the non-UBS ATM charges in Switzerland, for as long as there was a minimum deposit into my account(s) every month. I have recieved no such letter, by the way.
I have no idea why you have not received the letter. You could wait until the end of June and see if you have account charges if you withdrew cash from a non UBS ATM.
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  #58  
Old 08.05.2014, 18:03
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Re: Any reason not use UBS?

Does the 2chf per withdrawal only affects "free" UBS accounts, right? Those where currently the 2chf was waived if the balance was over 10k?

So people who pay 10chf or 5 chf per month for the account will still get it free??
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  #59  
Old 22.01.2015, 17:27
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Re: Any reason not use UBS?

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That sounds like my account. After that first year, if you have CHF 10,000 across all your accounts by the end of the month, you dont pay the account fee.


Can someone check the wording on their document?

This was certainly true in the past X years and most recently as of 31.12.2014. However, while browsing through UBS's website today, I noticed the 2015.1.1 document having the wording that says "10,000 for the entire previous month" (not just end of the month). I couldn't find my old document, but then I found a 2011 document from UBS using the exact same "entire previous month" wording, but then we've never been charged in the last X years and therefore it must've been just the month end balance that mattered (since we didn't have 10k the entire month, but just at month end).

Does someone have something somewhere in writing that says whether it's entire month or just the end of month balance?
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  #60  
Old 27.01.2015, 02:33
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Re: Any reason not use UBS?

overall I am happy with UBS although for instance a GBP account just to keep it running costs £5 per month not a great deal of money however its still £60pa. Also compared to the UK at least I find credit card fees especially when you are travelling abroad pretty steep. Otherwise its a top bank and offers good service
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