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Old 02.10.2014, 11:15
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Anyone know about bankruptcy in CH?

Hi,

I haven't found any recent posts on this topic.

In a sticky situation. Been thru long lengthy divorce...needless to say ended up with large debts due to it all. I was working until my contract finished recently so currently looking for work. All the money I have earned until end of contract has gone to providing for my child (father choose what & when he wants to pay - I can't afford a lawyer to even get this sorted out). I have nothing left & still a large anount of debt to pay off.

I was advised the debt collectors would come on Monday (coming) to take whatever possessions they could towards the debt. I couldn't let this happen as I live my new partner (of a few yrs) so they would have taken his stuff too probably?? His job is now "underpressure" so I couldn't tell him they would come to take belongings away. He would kick my son & I out. He knew I had financial issues, but even I didn't know it would go this far. So my only option was to apply for bankruptcy. Not a happy moment in my life I can tell you.

I have contacted free legal advice service but you can't make an appointment & they can't garantee that the person will speak any English...I only speak English & I don't have anyone that can go with me to translate, hence my post.

Firstly, they require 3,500CHF which I obviously DON'T have to even start proceedings - What happens if I don't have this money to pay for it? If I CAN even borrow this amount it is just adding to the huge debt I already have.

Secondly, has anyone been through this process & can explain to me how it works please?

A) I don't have a job right now so how can I pay anything back? How does this work? Will I have to go to jail if I can't pay? What about my child?

B) Can this whole procedure cost more than the 3,500CHF? Is this just a 'base' fee?

C) What are the full implications now & future? Renting appartments, buying a car etc? Will it affect my current partner buying a house should he ever want to/hasn't kicked us out?

D) How long does it stay on under your name?

E) What are my best options (if any) to sort this out in the best possible way?

I hate owing anything to anyone & have always paid my way, but I have been left ruined by my divorce. No matter how I have tried to get on top of it clearly I have failed. Any help on the above would be really appreciated so I at least have some idea of what I have to deal with ahead of me.
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Old 02.10.2014, 11:52
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Re: Anyone know about bankruptcy in CH?

Bankruptcy does not really exist in ch, your still liable for any debts for about 20 years from now .

The UK has a lot of bankruptcy tourism as its over in 1 year in most cases.
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Old 02.10.2014, 12:45
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Re: Anyone know about bankruptcy in CH?

Thanks.

Was hoping for some details on the actual process etc. If anyone has any hands on experience/knowledge it would be great.
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Old 02.10.2014, 13:31
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Re: Anyone know about bankruptcy in CH?

You get debts registered against you, a loss certificate is registered. Every 2 years they will come back and ask for money again.! Your screwed basically
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Old 02.10.2014, 13:43
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Re: Anyone know about bankruptcy in CH?

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Hi,

I haven't found any recent posts on this topic.

In a sticky situation. Been thru long lengthy divorce...needless to say ended up with large debts due to it all. I was working until my contract finished recently so currently looking for work. All the money I have earned until end of contract has gone to providing for my child (father choose what & when he wants to pay - I can't afford a lawyer to even get this sorted out). I have nothing left & still a large anount of debt to pay off.

I was advised the debt collectors would come on Monday (coming) to take whatever possessions they could towards the debt. I couldn't let this happen as I live my new partner (of a few yrs) so they would have taken his stuff too probably?? His job is now "underpressure" so I couldn't tell him they would come to take belongings away. He would kick my son & I out. He knew I had financial issues, but even I didn't know it would go this far. So my only option was to apply for bankruptcy. Not a happy moment in my life I can tell you.

I have contacted free legal advice service but you can't make an appointment & they can't garantee that the person will speak any English...I only speak English & I don't have anyone that can go with me to translate, hence my post.

Firstly, they require 3,500CHF which I obviously DON'T have to even start proceedings - What happens if I don't have this money to pay for it? If I CAN even borrow this amount it is just adding to the huge debt I already have.

Secondly, has anyone been through this process & can explain to me how it works please?

A) I don't have a job right now so how can I pay anything back? How does this work? Will I have to go to jail if I can't pay? What about my child?

B) Can this whole procedure cost more than the 3,500CHF? Is this just a 'base' fee?

C) What are the full implications now & future? Renting appartments, buying a car etc? Will it affect my current partner buying a house should he ever want to/hasn't kicked us out?

D) How long does it stay on under your name?

E) What are my best options (if any) to sort this out in the best possible way?

I hate owing anything to anyone & have always paid my way, but I have been left ruined by my divorce. No matter how I have tried to get on top of it clearly I have failed. Any help on the above would be really appreciated so I at least have some idea of what I have to deal with ahead of me.
If you are British, get back to the UK, temporarily. If you arrive with no shelter in England as single mother with a child you will be given some kind of accomodation and go to the top of the housing list, once your in a house you will be back on your feet as the council will pay the basic needs and you can declare bankruptcy in the meantime. Upon clearance of the bankruptcy you could return to CH.

Its not pretty, but it sounds like a pretty desperate situation and I imagine it must be extremely stressful with a child to look after.

If you are not english I cannot offer any more advice except to say I feel sorry for you with a child to support under such pressure.
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Old 02.10.2014, 13:48
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Re: Anyone know about bankruptcy in CH?

To get this far it seems to me you have ignored the official proceedings. If you had offered to pay back your debts over 10 years,
there would not be bailiffs at your door.

1. you can go to your Office des Poursuites and try and sort something out

http://ge.ch/opf/contact

2. you can go to a cheaper lawyer and get legal aid (Which you will have to repay)
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Old 02.10.2014, 14:04
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Re: Anyone know about bankruptcy in CH?

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I was advised the debt collectors would come on Monday (coming) to take whatever possessions they could towards the debt. I couldn't let this happen as I live my new partner (of a few yrs) so they would have taken his stuff too probably?? His job is now "underpressure" so I couldn't tell him they would come to take belongings away. He would kick my son & I out. He knew I had financial issues, but even I didn't know it would go this far. So my only option was to apply for bankruptcy. Not a happy moment in my life I can tell you.
Not sure they can take his belongings it's not his debt?

Sounds like a nice guy? I'd ditch him too.

You should be able to be honest with him about this and he should support you and deal with the issues together.
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Old 02.10.2014, 14:14
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Re: Anyone know about bankruptcy in CH?

I'm sorry you find yourself in such a mess. Before I can offer advice, I need to first understand exactly which stage of the bankruptcy proceedings you are in and what has happened so far.

Firstly you speak of great debts. Did you have a repayment schedule with any of the people you owe money to? Did they initiate a " procédure de recouvrement" or collection procedure? You would know, because it's handeld by the debt office of your local commune and you would have received a registered letter stating who is claiming and how much. On the back of such a letter you have the option to file an objection (tick the relevant box, sign and bring it back to the debt office) within 10 days of receipt. Did you do this?

I assume you did not and have now been informed that the relevant officer (not quite a bailiff) will come round to your home. At this point the make an inventory of anything that could potentially be sold to pay off some of your debt. They will not take or sell off essential items necessary to live NOR will your partners possessions be listed. You must however make sure you tell them what belongs to you and what doesn't. They may also want some form of evidence and that means receipts of purchase from your partner.. Any real valuables are listed and you will not be able to sell them etc... They will eventually (a long way down the road) sell them for you though.

There is then a calculation done of the minimum amount you need to live (there are strict guidelines for this and of course they take into account your child.) Should you have a job, everything above the minimum existance amount that you earn will be deducted directly at source. This means your employer will be informed...

But currently you have no job, so there is no money to take. So what happens? Nothing. The person or persons you owe the money to, who initiated the proceedings will then have to request your valuables are sold.. Chances are they won't do this as it doesn't sound like it would ever come close to covering your debt.

As soon as you have gainful employement again, you will have to notify them (I think) and then they will deduct the excess as described above, directly from the salary.

So, as you can see, right now there is no benefit for you to file for bankruptcy. The debt office will advice it if they think it makes sense in your situation. Work with the authorities on this.. it will save you a lot of misery..
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Old 02.10.2014, 14:16
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Re: Anyone know about bankruptcy in CH?

Declaring bankruptcy is useful if you have some kind of income they are taking for themselves (leaving only a part for survival), but the result is always a certificate that states you don't have sufficient belongings to extinguish the debt, this is given to your creditors, they will get this after monday should your property not be enough to extinguish the debt. It gives you some air because it suspends any procedure for some time. The certificate is valid 20 years, should your situation get better they will come back and claim again, if you still don't have enough another one will be issued and is valid for 20 years.
Since you're probably not swiss you risk losing your permit if you go on welfare, this english thing seems interesting but there's a child in the middle so i guess your ex should be ok with him moving back to the uk for a while.
It's a bit late now to do much, you should have been honest with your partner and got in front of this with his help since you don't speak french, the whole procedure takes a year usually i think, anyway contact the office and ask them what to do.
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Old 02.10.2014, 14:29
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Re: Anyone know about bankruptcy in CH?

Sorry to hear this Grapefruit1 and hope you can get a handle on it soon. Here's some more info which may help.

https://www.ch.ch/en/debt-enforcement-bankruptcy/
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Old 04.03.2015, 18:34
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Re: Anyone know about bankruptcy in CH?

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Bankruptcy does not really exist in ch, your still liable for any debts for about 20 years from now .

The UK has a lot of bankruptcy tourism as its over in 1 year in most cases.
Errm, just wondering quite how declaring bankruptcy in the UK can help with a Swiss debt?
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Old 04.03.2015, 18:54
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Re: Anyone know about bankruptcy in CH?

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Errm, just wondering quite how declaring bankruptcy in the UK can help with a Swiss debt?
Swiss courts accept that your already bankrupt in another country & accept the law of the country you went bankrupt in.
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Old 04.03.2015, 18:57
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Re: Anyone know about bankruptcy in CH?

Bankruptcy in the UK is the new badge of honour and far too easy
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Old 05.03.2015, 10:21
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Re: Anyone know about bankruptcy in CH?

I can't offer any advice but please accept my wishes for a painless resolution, hope you find a way.
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Old 05.03.2015, 11:05
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Re: Anyone know about bankruptcy in CH?

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Bankruptcy in the UK is the new badge of honour and far too easy
Allowing people to take risks & innovate, which is hardly a Swiss thing so it's not surprising you don't get it.
The USA is the same & has done rather well over the last 250 years, Switzerland success is rather shorter & much was based on bank secrecy which is now a thing of the past. Interesting to see how successful CH will be over the next 50 years.
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Old 05.03.2015, 12:11
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Re: Anyone know about bankruptcy in CH?

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Allowing people to take risks & innovate, which is hardly a Swiss thing so it's not surprising you don't get it.
The USA is the same & has done rather well over the last 250 years, Switzerland success is rather shorter & much was based on bank secrecy which is now a thing of the past. Interesting to see how successful CH will be over the next 50 years.
If limited liability companies did not exist here then I would agree that the legal framework would actively suppress innovation since people would have no means of taking calculated risks and protecting themselves against undue loss. This is not the case however. Anyone can open up a GmbH with very little startup capital (which can actually be immediately utilized for business), so the fact that personal bankruptcies do not exist here is rather secondary to the fact that anyone doing business can easily prevent such issues to begin with...

Ninja edit: not that a GmbH would've helped OP's case unfortunately, but then she is hardly in such a bad place because of taking business risks.
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Old 05.03.2015, 12:34
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Re: Anyone know about bankruptcy in CH?

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If limited liability companies did not exist here then I would agree that the legal framework would actively suppress innovation since people would have no means of taking calculated risks and protecting themselves against undue loss. This is not the case however. Anyone can open up a GmbH with very little startup capital (which can actually be immediately utilized for business), so the fact that personal bankruptcies do not exist here is rather secondary to the fact that anyone doing business can easily prevent such issues to begin with...

Ninja edit: not that a GmbH would've helped OP's case unfortunately, but then she is hardly in such a bad place because of taking business risks.
Generally co directors will have to make unlimited personal guarantees for any bank borrowings in any new business without significant assets so it's a rather moot point TBH. The same is also true for some suppliers, LTD, GmbH, AG etc is a WARNING to people who do business with a company. Of course in the UK if you sign a lease for a company property it will likely be 21 years on a full repairing basis with upwards only rent reviews every 4 years.

Edit
You will remain responsible for any defaults for the full term even if you assigned the lease 15 years ago. I signed a lease that was £5,000 a year in 1983, rent was £35,000 in 1991 & exceeded £100k a year before the 21 years expired.

Last edited by fatmanfilms; 05.03.2015 at 12:51.
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Old 05.03.2015, 14:38
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Re: Anyone know about bankruptcy in CH?

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Generally co directors will have to make unlimited personal guarantees for any bank borrowings in any new business without significant assets so it's a rather moot point TBH.
Yes but this will be more or less the same in every country. I was not saying that a limited liability company is a silver bullet, rather, that the barrier to innovation is unlikely to be the bankruptcy law (or lack of).
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Old 05.03.2015, 16:25
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Re: Anyone know about bankruptcy in CH?

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Yes but this will be more or less the same in every country. I was not saying that a limited liability company is a silver bullet, rather, that the barrier to innovation is unlikely to be the bankruptcy law (or lack of).
I think you can get out of leases in CH rather easily, social help is 3k a month for a single person, rather different the the UK me thinks.
Anyway never been bankrupt but ran a business in the UK, when you sign a lease you don't expect the cost to increase more than 20 fold in 20 years & be personally responsible for the full term with no get out. Employees don't have a clue of the risks that are taken by just renting an 80m2 office.
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Old 05.03.2015, 17:04
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Re: Anyone know about bankruptcy in CH?

If your EX owes your money , send the collector to him !!
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