Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Finance/banking/taxation
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 27.03.2015, 16:22
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 18,147
Groaned at 926 Times in 722 Posts
Thanked 19,740 Times in 9,484 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Withdraw money from Pension for Property Investment

Quote:
View Post
Both of us are Swiss...
I know that, I didn't mean 'one' numerically.

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user groans at st2lemans for this post:
  #22  
Old 27.03.2015, 17:48
Kamarate's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 1,915
Groaned at 57 Times in 38 Posts
Thanked 1,619 Times in 685 Posts
Kamarate has a reputation beyond reputeKamarate has a reputation beyond reputeKamarate has a reputation beyond reputeKamarate has a reputation beyond reputeKamarate has a reputation beyond reputeKamarate has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Withdraw money from Pension for Property Investment

Quote:
View Post
Oh, we're never coming back. That's certain (or as certain as I can be at this point)!
The only difference between the amount you can use to finance a home if you stayed here and if you move to the US is the tax that will be retained at source. Usually, your permitted amount to use to finance the purchase of a property is the same as your vested benefit amount (minus any benefits purchased voluntarily in the three preceding years and various other, but rarer, factors). If you are moving outside the EU, you are allowed to take your entire vested benefit amount (as opposed to just the part supplementary to the BVG/LPP). However, if moving to the US you will lose whatever is taxed at source (not sure if the percentage depends on your canton or on the country you're moving to).

I'm not sure I explained very well, but I hope I helped...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Kamarate for this useful post:
  #23  
Old 27.03.2015, 18:01
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 19,400
Groaned at 369 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 22,400 Times in 10,081 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Withdraw money from Pension for Property Investment

Quote:
View Post
If you say that you will "never" come back to CH, you might be able to cash the pension. No matter if its for a house or lollipops..

but check that with pension.

Good luck
I know a Swiss who did just that- took all his money to the Domenican Republic- saying he would never return. He then came back destitute 8 years later and has been on the social ever since- and now drawing Swiss AVS so authorities know that just saying you'll never come back may well turn out very different for a %.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Odile for this useful post:
  #24  
Old 27.03.2015, 18:11
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 13,781
Groaned at 209 Times in 181 Posts
Thanked 11,094 Times in 6,293 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Withdraw money from Pension for Property Investment

Quote:
View Post
Even if one is Swiss?

Tom
If you leave CH & take up residence abroad yes.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #25  
Old 27.03.2015, 18:15
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 13,781
Groaned at 209 Times in 181 Posts
Thanked 11,094 Times in 6,293 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Withdraw money from Pension for Property Investment

Quote:
View Post
The only difference between the amount you can use to finance a home if you stayed here and if you move to the US is the tax that will be retained at source. Usually, your permitted amount to use to finance the purchase of a property is the same as your vested benefit amount (minus any benefits purchased voluntarily in the three preceding years and various other, but rarer, factors). If you are moving outside the EU, you are allowed to take your entire vested benefit amount (as opposed to just the part supplementary to the BVG/LPP). However, if moving to the US you will lose whatever is taxed at source (not sure if the percentage depends on your canton or on the country you're moving to).

I'm not sure I explained very well, but I hope I helped...
Even people leaving for the EU may be able to take 100% of the fund in cash, it depends if the new country requires compulsory insurance for OAP, the UK for one does not, same is true for Malta & many others.

Withholding Tax will always be deducted, however further tax may be payable in the new country. The UK does not have a further tax, Malta does if the money is remitted to Malta.

Quote:
View Post
I know a Swiss who did just that- took all his money to the Domenican Republic- saying he would never return. He then came back destitute 8 years later and has been on the social ever since- and now drawing Swiss AVS so authorities know that just saying you'll never come back may well turn out very different for a %.
The requirement is to have the intention to leave 'permanently', which is not the same as never coming back
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #26  
Old 27.03.2015, 18:31
Kamarate's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 1,915
Groaned at 57 Times in 38 Posts
Thanked 1,619 Times in 685 Posts
Kamarate has a reputation beyond reputeKamarate has a reputation beyond reputeKamarate has a reputation beyond reputeKamarate has a reputation beyond reputeKamarate has a reputation beyond reputeKamarate has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Withdraw money from Pension for Property Investment

Quote:
View Post
Even people leaving for the EU may be able to take 100% of the fund in cash, it depends if the new country requires compulsory insurance for OAP, the UK for one does not, same is true for Malta & many others.

Withholding Tax will always be deducted, however further tax may be payable in the new country. The UK does not have a further tax, Malta does if the money is remitted to Malta.
Indeed, I was trying to be concise for OP's cas but yes, if you can prove that you will never need compulsary insurance for old-age, disability or death then you can write to the Fonds de garantie and they decide if you are allowed to take the LPP part too.

Certain countries have agreements with Switzerland whereby the insured member fills in a form in order to claim the withholding tax back. Off the top of my head, I don't know which countries (which is exactly why I have a lovely sheet at work outlining them all!).
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Kamarate for this useful post:
  #27  
Old 27.03.2015, 20:02
jaudi's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: zurich
Posts: 494
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 412 Times in 193 Posts
jaudi has an excellent reputationjaudi has an excellent reputationjaudi has an excellent reputationjaudi has an excellent reputation
Re: Withdraw money from Pension for Property Investment

Quote:
View Post
...it depends if the new country requires compulsory insurance for OAP, the UK for one does not...
You've asserted this before - do you have a reference please ? I understand there may be exceptions (e.g. retired, severely disabled etc.), but I assume the norm for people of employment age is that it is compulsory.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 27.03.2015, 20:27
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Misery-Courtion
Posts: 13,555
Groaned at 171 Times in 135 Posts
Thanked 9,676 Times in 5,522 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Withdraw money from Pension for Property Investment

Quote:
View Post
You've asserted this before - do you have a reference please ? I understand there may be exceptions (e.g. retired, severely disabled etc.), but I assume the norm for people of employment age is that it is compulsory.
Permanent departure from Switzerland
You may draw on your pension if you can prove that you are leaving Switzerland permanently to settle abroad.

Payout of the pension fund to persons moving to an EU / EFTA member state

Anyone leaving Switzerland to settle in an EU/EFTA member state, may generally not cash in their pension from the compulsory pension plan as persons in the new country of domicile are insured by law to receive old age, survivors' and invalidity benefits. The mandatory portion of your pension assets must therefore remain in a blocked account (vested benefits account or policy) in Switzerland and can only be paid out when you reach retirement age. The extra-mandatory portion of your pension, however, may be paid out in cash. The mandatory and extra-mandatory portions of your pension are listed on the personal insurance certificate under the heading ‘Retirement provision information’.

What you need to do

Contact the pension fund you paid into with your last employer or the vested benefits institution where you have an account or a policy. Notify them of your departure from Switzerland and provide them with the necessary documents.

https://www.ch.ch/en/withdraw-pension-early
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 27.03.2015, 21:25
jaudi's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: zurich
Posts: 494
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 412 Times in 193 Posts
jaudi has an excellent reputationjaudi has an excellent reputationjaudi has an excellent reputationjaudi has an excellent reputation
Re: Withdraw money from Pension for Property Investment

I'll try again....the bit I quoted was

"...it depends if the new country requires compulsory insurance for OAP, the UK for one does not..."

That's the bit I wanted a reference for.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 29.03.2015, 12:41
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 13,781
Groaned at 209 Times in 181 Posts
Thanked 11,094 Times in 6,293 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Withdraw money from Pension for Property Investment

Quote:
View Post
You've asserted this before - do you have a reference please ? I understand there may be exceptions (e.g. retired, severely disabled etc.), but I assume the norm for people of employment age is that it is compulsory.
Well if you ever worked in the UK you might remember it was not a compulsory to pay a percentage of your income into a pension scheme..........unlike in CH.

Google Swiss LOB guarantee fund & you will even see the form for the UK.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 29.03.2015, 15:59
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SZ
Posts: 7,618
Groaned at 18 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 15,927 Times in 5,234 Posts
meloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Withdraw money from Pension for Property Investment

Quote:
View Post
However, if moving to the US you will lose whatever is taxed at source (not sure if the percentage depends on your canton or on the country you're moving to).
Now I'm even more confused. (As I often am...)

We have already paid US income tax on Pillars 2 and 3 - it's taxed as income each year. We plan to cash out those accounts when we leave, and will never return to Switzerland. (We are not Swiss citizens.) Are we subject to additional withholding tax on those accounts when we leave?

Many thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 29.03.2015, 16:07
Kamarate's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 1,915
Groaned at 57 Times in 38 Posts
Thanked 1,619 Times in 685 Posts
Kamarate has a reputation beyond reputeKamarate has a reputation beyond reputeKamarate has a reputation beyond reputeKamarate has a reputation beyond reputeKamarate has a reputation beyond reputeKamarate has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Withdraw money from Pension for Property Investment

3rd pillar I have no idea. I know I prepared a vested benefits transfer to the States the other day and there was quite a large chunk which was paid to the tax authorities. As I say, I don't know off the top of my head if there is an agreement in place for the US whereby you can claim this back. I can have a look at work tomorrow if you like.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Kamarate for this useful post:
  #33  
Old 29.03.2015, 16:08
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 13,781
Groaned at 209 Times in 181 Posts
Thanked 11,094 Times in 6,293 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Withdraw money from Pension for Property Investment

Quote:
View Post
Now I'm even more confused. (As I often am...)

We have already paid US income tax on Pillars 2 and 3 - it's taxed as income each year. We plan to cash out those accounts when we leave, and will never return to Switzerland. (We are not Swiss citizens.) Are we subject to additional withholding tax on those accounts when we leave?

Many thanks.
Of course you will have to pay Swiss withholding tax when you cash out your Swiss pensions. The Swiss don't care (or benefit) that your a US person & subject to US taxation.

No idea why you did a Pillar 3......as it's tax deferred in CH & taxable if full in the US.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #34  
Old 29.03.2015, 16:18
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SZ
Posts: 7,618
Groaned at 18 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 15,927 Times in 5,234 Posts
meloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Withdraw money from Pension for Property Investment

Quote:
View Post
Of course you will have to pay Swiss withholding tax when you cash out your Swiss pensions. The Swiss don't care (or benefit) that your a US person & subject to US taxation.

No idea why you did a Pillar 3......as it's tax deferred in CH & taxable if full in the US.
Ah, now I'm less confused. I knew we would need to pay Swiss taxes on that money, but thought the post was referring to yet more US tax.

No idea why we did Pillar 3 either. But our bank did us a favor and kicked us out, so at least that one is done and dusted.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank meloncollie for this useful post:
  #35  
Old 29.03.2015, 19:27
swiss_in_training's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,350
Groaned at 19 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 1,390 Times in 605 Posts
swiss_in_training has a reputation beyond reputeswiss_in_training has a reputation beyond reputeswiss_in_training has a reputation beyond reputeswiss_in_training has a reputation beyond reputeswiss_in_training has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Withdraw money from Pension for Property Investment

Quote:
View Post
I know a Swiss who did just that- took all his money to the Domenican Republic- saying he would never return. He then came back destitute 8 years later and has been on the social ever since- and now drawing Swiss AVS so authorities know that just saying you'll never come back may well turn out very different for a %.
In our case, we don't actually have a choice. My husband is "too old" to do his profession here (and he's actually Swiss). Fortunately, his line of work has very nice benefits IF you stay at the same institution, so we're pretty much stuck living wherever we go next.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bet365 !!! can deposit but cannot withdraw money TradeTicker Complaints corner 30 06.07.2014 17:00
How to apply to withdraw pension fund (social security) Dino71 Leaving Switzerland 4 18.01.2012 07:50
leaving country- how to withdraw pension money? landmark77 Finance/banking/taxation 1 21.11.2010 16:32
Withdrawing pension for property - split residence Sorensen Finance/banking/taxation 2 21.09.2010 10:13
Property Investment Swiss Cheddar Housing in general 4 04.08.2008 20:25


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:14.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0