Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Finance/banking/taxation
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 20.04.2015, 11:55
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 13,782
Groaned at 209 Times in 181 Posts
Thanked 11,097 Times in 6,294 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SNB introduces negative interest to weaken the franc

Quote:
View Post
I believe these negative interest rates are actually a 'punishment' for savers.. bonds and interest rate swaps are in negative zone for 10 year period...

given the current situation, do you think that a return of 1% p.a. on CHF deposits after tax for the next 5 years, makes a good deal??
No, equities will be a better deal.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 20.04.2015, 12:13
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Geneva
Posts: 44
Groaned at 2 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 14 Times in 10 Posts
topswit has no particular reputation at present
Re: SNB introduces negative interest to weaken the franc

Quote:
View Post
No, equities will be a better deal.
equities.. i know the risk, but after the commissions for buying, selling and taxes, what is the avg return %?, 3% - 5% or more?
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 20.04.2015, 13:19
Village Idiot's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 3,344
Groaned at 35 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 6,258 Times in 2,000 Posts
Village Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SNB introduces negative interest to weaken the franc

Quote:
View Post
equities.. i know the risk, but after the commissions for buying, selling and taxes, what is the avg return %?, 3% - 5% or more?
Well, it clearly depends on which equity you buy!

Buy a tracker ETF for one of the major indexes and you'll get around 5%, if the past ten years are anything to go on.

Commissions with someone like Interactivebrokers are so low ($1 per trade) that they don't materially affect the calculated returns.

Taxes? You'll pay your income rate on dividends...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Village Idiot for this useful post:
  #44  
Old 20.04.2015, 16:59
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 13,782
Groaned at 209 Times in 181 Posts
Thanked 11,097 Times in 6,294 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SNB introduces negative interest to weaken the franc

Quote:
View Post
equities.. i know the risk, but after the commissions for buying, selling and taxes, what is the avg return %?, 3% - 5% or more?

I have been recommending this fund on the forum for the past 2.5 years, I am very happy, below average risk IMHO.

Www.fundsmith.co..UK you can invest in gbp or euros
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 20.04.2015, 17:42
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 324
Groaned at 12 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 145 Times in 83 Posts
poot is considered knowledgeablepoot is considered knowledgeablepoot is considered knowledgeable
Re: SNB introduces negative interest to weaken the franc

Quote:
View Post
I have been recommending this fund on the forum for the past 2.5 years, I am very happy, below average risk IMHO.

Www.fundsmith.co..UK you can invest in gbp or euros
Seconded!
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 20.04.2015, 22:39
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 7,523
Groaned at 164 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 8,554 Times in 4,686 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SNB introduces negative interest to weaken the franc

Quote:
View Post
I have been recommending this fund on the forum for the past 2.5 years, I am very happy, below average risk IMHO.

Www.fundsmith.co..UK you can invest in gbp or euros
But then you carry the CHF exchange risk yourself unless, like you, you do not live in CHF land.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 20.04.2015, 23:35
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 13,782
Groaned at 209 Times in 181 Posts
Thanked 11,097 Times in 6,294 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SNB introduces negative interest to weaken the franc

Quote:
View Post
But then you carry the CHF exchange risk yourself unless, like you, you do not live in CHF land.
People make too much of exchange rate risk with equities, Nestle is a holding, however only 2% of profits come from CH but many people would foolishly believe the value of the CHF was a risk with holding Nestle.

In CHF terms the fund has still done very well. Remember 65% of the SMI is just 3 stocks, buying an SMI index is really quite risky.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #48  
Old 21.04.2015, 11:30
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: geneve
Posts: 32
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 11 Times in 5 Posts
jim1 has no particular reputation at present
Re: SNB introduces negative interest to weaken the franc

You can also make your investments in Fundsmith in CHF which avoids you the transaction costs of having to convert CHF to GBP or Euros to buy it:
http://www.fundsmith.eu/
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 21.04.2015, 12:40
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 11,485
Groaned at 246 Times in 157 Posts
Thanked 13,338 Times in 5,682 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SNB introduces negative interest to weaken the franc

Those that invested, did you go for the GBP one, or the CHF one? What's the difference?

I noticed that the CHF one has higher charges, but I'm not sure whether it just invests into the UK OEIC or whether it holds investments directly itself.

Last edited by Phil_MCR; 21.04.2015 at 14:20.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 21.04.2015, 14:17
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: geneve
Posts: 32
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 11 Times in 5 Posts
jim1 has no particular reputation at present
Re: SNB introduces negative interest to weaken the franc

I think the "I" class share is only available to buy via a broker but I am not 100% sure - I would drop them an email.

Because I have GBP in my UK current account I'm currently making a regular monthly investment via their UK website to buy their T class, GBP Accumulating dividend share which is available on the UK website.
https://www.fundsmith.co.uk/TheFund.aspx

Once my GBP have been used up I plan to buy the CHF share which is only available via their EU (Lux) site. I don't want to have to covert GBP to CHF.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank jim1 for this useful post:
  #51  
Old 21.04.2015, 15:05
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 13,782
Groaned at 209 Times in 181 Posts
Thanked 11,097 Times in 6,294 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SNB introduces negative interest to weaken the franc

Quote:
View Post
I think the "I" class share is only available to buy via a broker but I am not 100% sure - I would drop them an email.

Because I have GBP in my UK current account I'm currently making a regular monthly investment via their UK website to buy their T class, GBP Accumulating dividend share which is available on the UK website.
https://www.fundsmith.co.uk/TheFund.aspx

Once my GBP have been used up I plan to buy the CHF share which is only available via their EU (Lux) site. I don't want to have to covert GBP to CHF.
Well the minimum subscription for CHF is 6 million, which is why I have invested in both Euro & GBP. It's all invested in the UK fund.

I have a UK pension invested through Hargreaves Lansdown, you get the I units however HL has a management charge. Going Direct to FS in the UK is the cheapest option, the Euro feeder fund has a small extra fee. They only have a couple of hundred clients in Luxembourg so you will always talk to the same person.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #52  
Old 22.04.2015, 16:55
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: geneve
Posts: 32
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 11 Times in 5 Posts
jim1 has no particular reputation at present
Re: SNB introduces negative interest to weaken the franc

I emailed Fundsmith Luxembourg fundsmith.eu who manage the the CHF "I" class fund. The "I" class means that it is an Institutional share class: you have to purchase the fund through a bank or intermediary.

On the other hand possibly if you invest 6MM CHF they will let you buy directly

I asked them who distributes their CHF fund in Switzerland. They told me that UBS do and so it should be possible to buy the CHF fund via UBS' platform (and then pay any UBS safe custody fees, which I think are in the region of 0.14% p.a.; I Don't know if UBS will charge an issuing fee on top).

Fundsmith do not currently distribute the fund through Swissquote, but based on my mail they have contacted Swissquote about getting it listed. The advantage of Swissquote is that their security holding fees are capped at 200chf per p.a.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank jim1 for this useful post:
  #53  
Old 22.04.2015, 17:07
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 11,485
Groaned at 246 Times in 157 Posts
Thanked 13,338 Times in 5,682 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SNB introduces negative interest to weaken the franc

Quote:
View Post
Well the minimum subscription for CHF is 6 million
Damn. I only had 5.999m to invest. I guess I will have to spend it instead.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 22.02.2016, 20:24
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Aargau
Posts: 1,560
Groaned at 12 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 1,810 Times in 881 Posts
Mullhollander has a reputation beyond reputeMullhollander has a reputation beyond reputeMullhollander has a reputation beyond reputeMullhollander has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SNB introduces negative interest to weaken the franc

Negative interest rates caused an increase of CHF 1'000 notes in circulation in 2015:

"Circulation of Switzerland's 1,000 Franc Note Jumps -- Update
02/22/16 07:42 AM EST
By John Letzing
ZURICH--Circulation of Switzerland's 1,000 franc note ($1,010), among the largest denomination bills in the world, rose sharply last year after the country's central bank cut interest rates deeply into negative territory.

According to data published by the Swiss National Bank on Monday, there was 45.2 billion Swiss francs worth of 1,000 franc notes in circulation in December, up from 40.5 billion francs in December 2014. It marked a 17% increase since November 2014, the month before the central bank began implementing its negative interest rate policy.

The connection between the increasing circulation of the big Swiss bill and the central bank policy is "obvious," said Karsten Junius, chief economist at Bank J. Safra Sarasin. "

http://www.morningstar.com/news/dow-...ps-update.html
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 22.02.2016, 21:14
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,465
Groaned at 50 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 2,237 Times in 1,228 Posts
rainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SNB introduces negative interest to weaken the franc

NZZ article about this issue:

http://www.nzz.ch/wirtschaft/wirtsch...messen-ld.4911

The Swiss Franc is very efficient :-)
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank rainer_d for this useful post:
  #56  
Old 22.02.2016, 22:35
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Baselland
Posts: 581
Groaned at 9 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 390 Times in 244 Posts
spalebärg has a reputation beyond reputespalebärg has a reputation beyond reputespalebärg has a reputation beyond reputespalebärg has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SNB introduces negative interest to weaken the franc

Quote:
View Post
NZZ article about this issue:

http://www.nzz.ch/wirtschaft/wirtsch...messen-ld.4911

The Swiss Franc is very efficient :-)
As good as gold.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank spalebärg for this useful post:
  #57  
Old 05.03.2016, 18:41
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Baselland
Posts: 581
Groaned at 9 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 390 Times in 244 Posts
spalebärg has a reputation beyond reputespalebärg has a reputation beyond reputespalebärg has a reputation beyond reputespalebärg has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SNB introduces negative interest to weaken the franc

To successfully enforce negative interest rates apparently the cleaver ones are deciding we must go to a cashless society.

Sweden Begins 5 Year Countdown Until It Eliminates All Cash
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank spalebärg for this useful post:
  #58  
Old 06.03.2016, 01:55
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Zürich
Posts: 781
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 408 Times in 250 Posts
ChrisNeedsToKnow has a reputation beyond reputeChrisNeedsToKnow has a reputation beyond reputeChrisNeedsToKnow has a reputation beyond reputeChrisNeedsToKnow has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SNB introduces negative interest to weaken the franc

The "Bavarian Sparkassen" are evaluating the costs of keeping their surplus funds as cash rather than parking it with the ECB.

http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/unt...a-1080523.html

While I understand their efforts, I find negative interest inherently illogical. I think this all has to lead to a "big reset". The question can't be "if", it's more "when" and "how". Or what am I not getting here?
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 06.03.2016, 02:11
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 11,485
Groaned at 246 Times in 157 Posts
Thanked 13,338 Times in 5,682 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SNB introduces negative interest to weaken the franc

Quote:
View Post
The "Bavarian Sparkassen" are evaluating the costs of keeping their surplus funds as cash rather than parking it with the ECB.

http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/unt...a-1080523.html

While I understand their efforts, I find negative interest inherently illogical. I think this all has to lead to a "big reset". The question can't be "if", it's more "when" and "how". Or what am I not getting here?
Crazy policies. Maybe they should just get the banks to crystallise their losses. That would soak up a lot of "excess cash"...
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 06.03.2016, 02:14
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,465
Groaned at 50 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 2,237 Times in 1,228 Posts
rainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SNB introduces negative interest to weaken the franc

Quote:
View Post
The "Bavarian Sparkassen" are evaluating the costs of keeping their surplus funds as cash rather than parking it with the ECB.

http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/unt...a-1080523.html

While I understand their efforts, I find negative interest inherently illogical. I think this all has to lead to a "big reset". The question can't be "if", it's more "when" and "how". Or what am I not getting here?
Probably.
Politicians are just looking for a smart way to make the little guy pay again, without making said fact too obvious.
Another "We have to save the banks, or else: doom. Here's your 200 billion"-bailout wouldn't go down with voters too well. People might wake up to the fact that nobody was at fault, nobody went to prison...

And another election is looming in the distance (2017, Germany).
So, my prediction is: it's "kicking the can down the road"-time again.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank rainer_d for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
banks, interest rate, money, snb




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
SNB Pegs CHF to the EUR!!! [and the aftermath of the removal of the cap] Zuger Swiss politics/news 1357 05.12.2016 23:43
Does high inflation (as a result of SNB) mean a hike in interest rates. irish_marmot Finance/banking/taxation 23 15.09.2011 14:25
Gold's status boosted as Swiss weaken franc The Local Swiss news via The Local 1 07.09.2011 20:36
Negative Interest rates on CHF ... markalex Finance/banking/taxation 0 22.07.2010 08:18
SNB does not want the franc to appreciate Verbier Finance/banking/taxation 16 25.01.2009 11:43


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 15:56.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0