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Old 26.01.2015, 15:25
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Investments? Instead of Savings - Ideas

I was wondering what people do with their "money" on this forum.

For example I have a portion of my salary I always put into savings every month. It's a good amount now and I don't want that amount of money to just stay there and no growth on it.

I would like to invest it so at least, even if slowly it grows.

Of course the typical thing is investing in a property.

I was wondering what others do on this forum, maybe "smaller" type of investments you do with your money that works for you.

I don't want my money just to stay in a savings account every month only growing whenever I put my portion of my salary there every month.

Any thoughts would be appreciated -

Thanks
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Old 26.01.2015, 15:44
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Re: Investments? Instead of Savings - Ideas

- put part of it in pillar 3. that will get rid of ~6k of it each year
- invest a regular amount in the stock market
- spend part of it
- put part of it into savings
- donate part of it
- invest in property (that should get rid of all of it for several years)
- invest in high-risk ventures (you should permanently lose a large chunk of it)
- get a (second) girlfriend
- have kids
- have an acrimonious divorce and hire lawyers

with the cap removed, now is probably a good time to invest overseas (e.g. the US).
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Old 26.01.2015, 18:09
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Re: Investments? Instead of Savings - Ideas

I have been wondering the same thing. So I have started investing in the stock market for the last 6 months. Not single stocks, but index and mutual funds.

But it is not for the faint of heart, what you think you are getting now, might be gone next week.

Now I think I have a better grasp, but I have to be honest I just follow the flow. If the stock market is on the up (and I hope it still is), almost everything goes up, from the health sector, to emergent market. So I bet for the ones with the highest return. But so far so good. I cannot complain.

The problem that I was facing was that although the value of your investment gets higher, it is just a number. It is not real, until you sell it. But once you sell, what do you do? Ideally, you would like to get advantage of compounding interest, so I invested it again. The problem with this is that I might end up losing all. It is the risks one takes.
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Old 26.01.2015, 18:44
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Re: Investments? Instead of Savings - Ideas

Take advise from Warren Buffet and invest in ETF or index trackers. It is low cost and you have a good diversity of stock. Do that each quarter or half year and do not look too much to timing. As you buy frequently look for low cost brokers.
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Old 26.01.2015, 21:19
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Re: Investments? Instead of Savings - Ideas

Well the first question to answer it your time period, anything less than five years and the answer is simple - leave it in the bank.

The reason for the five year marker is simple - most other types of investment go up and down, not just up and you need to have time on your side to allow it to right itself before you need it.

When it comes to investing the obvious choice, assuming you're not in your 50s, is equities not property. For most people the best choice is a well balanced portfolio of ETFs, that way even when something like what happened last comes along it will not hit you too bad.
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Old 26.01.2015, 21:51
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Re: Investments? Instead of Savings - Ideas

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Well the first question to answer it your time period, anything less than five years and the answer is simple - leave it in the bank.

The reason for the five year marker is simple - most other types of investment go up and down, not just up and you need to have time on your side to allow it to right itself before you need it.
This 5 year business is standard advice but I don't agree with it. Of course there is volatility in equities, and certainly in single stocks. I've had a number of stocks diminish by 30 or 40% in the last year or two through unforeseen circumstances e.g. the oil price drop, political unrest etc. It happens.

Fortunately most of my investments are in low-cost trackers, high yield funds, Vanguard-style self-rebalancing funds, and a couple of active funds run by people I like and trust, and the net result is to remain in the black. I'm now moving out of single stocks completely and into funds and trackers. My horizon is probably less than 5 years but I'm confident that to continue monthly drip-feeding into a broad range of diversified funds will keep me afloat. If there are dips I'll be buying-while-cheap. Diversification is the key. Looking back at the last 10 years or so, every sector has had dips while others motor ahead.

Maybe this isn't the advice of the cautious financial adviser or pension fund manager but I need to expand my pension fund and 1% interest, or whatever I could get at the bank, is no good to me. I'm sticking with investing, though as I inch towards pension age I'll no doubt start to shift the balance between equities and bonds.
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Old 26.01.2015, 23:16
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Re: Investments? Instead of Savings - Ideas

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Take advise from Warren Buffet and invest in ETF or index trackers. It is low cost and you have a good diversity of stock. Do that each quarter or half year and do not look too much to timing. As you buy frequently look for low cost brokers.
As much as I can skim through (http://www.investopedia.com/articles.../05/060605.asp), ETFs would require quite of an "active" approach to the market, i.e. if you want to make money, you'd have to follow the flows daily.

Anything more "layback and wait" style for us lazy-mofos?
I guess mutual funds are the answer?
Any advice on those in CH?

If you have any "investing for dummies" sources, which don't span 100 pages, feel free to share.

Myself too has set aside (and looking to set aside more) a fair amount and am looking how to best "enrich" the funds.

Thanks.
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Old 27.01.2015, 09:41
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Re: Investments? Instead of Savings - Ideas

I would say... invest in mutual funds / ETFs as has been mentioned... but putting a regular amount into the fund each month gives you a cost average and then you have less discomfort - if the price goes down then you'll buy more units, and it's also automatic.

Or a Porsche?
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Old 27.01.2015, 09:46
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Re: Investments? Instead of Savings - Ideas

I started reading investopedia's "tutorials" (a very informational site, btw, at least for me), and yes, I believe for starters a mutual fund, or even an index fund for a more "laid back" and lower cost, would be a good slow start for investing newbies.

Do I ask about mutual/index funds/ETFs with my bank or there are places online where one can handle it personally?
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Old 27.01.2015, 11:10
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Re: Investments? Instead of Savings - Ideas

I find investopedia very good aswell, I believe they have video tutorials of investing terminology etc.?

I also like the motley fool (fool.co.uk for UK) - they have investing guides and also analysis of companies etc. - obvs. take any company analysis with a pinch of salt.

I use Hargreaves lansdown (UK trader) for my investments. I find it excellent, it's very easy to invest, the interface is easy to use (including on mobile app) and the fees are low (for trading stocks or for buying/selling funds). They have 'fund picker' tools aswell to find a fund that meets your criteria.

I also have a Fidelity account for an investment ISA (which I can't add to while in Switzerland) but I will be transferring this over to HL so that everything is in one place. Fidelity is only for funds, not individual stocks.
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Old 27.01.2015, 11:11
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Re: Investments? Instead of Savings - Ideas

Yes, index funds for the low costs is the way to go. In the long run, you will pay less money due to their lower fees.
I will move to Zurich soon, so I do not know how it works over there. In Norway at least, you do not pay any fees to buy or sell for any index or mutual funds, you just pay the annual fee, nothing else. And you can buy and sell at any time.
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Old 27.01.2015, 11:38
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Re: Investments? Instead of Savings - Ideas

I was told you should take your age from 100.

Your age is the % you should put in secure investments
The other % should be put in more risky investments like stock market.

The younger you are the more risk you can take.
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Old 27.01.2015, 11:42
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Re: Investments? Instead of Savings - Ideas

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Or a Porsche?
Take the Porsche!
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Old 27.01.2015, 12:03
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Re: Investments? Instead of Savings - Ideas

Here, buy it on EF.

How to sell a 996 Porsche 911 C4 1999
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Old 27.01.2015, 13:04
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Re: Investments? Instead of Savings - Ideas

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I was told you should take your age from 100.

Your age is the % you should put in secure investments
The other % should be put in more risky investments like stock market.

The younger you are the more risk you can take.
I was thinking of putting a certain amount, say 50% in an index fund, and then the rest into a mutual fund having cca 25-35% bonds and the rest equities.
The mutual fund ratio maps to my age.

I also already have in place a savings account back home (I basically repeat a yearly contract with fair interest rates, 3.5-5%), to at least cover for inflation. So this is kind of a "cash basis" of the investment pyramid.

Once I get up to speed with the inv. funds, I might attempt some smaller stock trades myself (I doubt I can outperform the funds however, but just for the kicks).

The Porsche is going to have to wait, I'm going for Tesla first. :P


Now my question is: can I invest into those funds through e.g. UBS eBanking, or I need to setup another channel for that?
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Old 27.01.2015, 14:15
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Re: Investments? Instead of Savings - Ideas

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I was thinking of putting a certain amount, say 50% in an index fund, and then the rest into a mutual fund having cca 25-35% bonds and the rest equities.
The mutual fund ratio maps to my age.

I also already have in place a savings account back home (I basically repeat a yearly contract with fair interest rates, 3.5-5%), to at least cover for inflation. So this is kind of a "cash basis" of the investment pyramid.

Once I get up to speed with the inv. funds, I might attempt some smaller stock trades myself (I doubt I can outperform the funds however, but just for the kicks).

The Porsche is going to have to wait, I'm going for Tesla first. :P


Now my question is: can I invest into those funds through e.g. UBS eBanking, or I need to setup another channel for that?
I believe you can invest through UBS but I couldn't find a way of directly doing it on the website. I only see the option 'Arrange a consulation' - like here: http://www.ubs.com/ch/en/swissbank/p...ent-funds.html

I think you would have more freedom and potentially lower fees by going to an investment dealing company. Personally, I transfer my CHF to GBP using transferwise and then invest using http://www.hl.co.uk/. There will be some similar alternatives here in CH.
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Old 04.02.2015, 12:07
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Re: Investments? Instead of Savings - Ideas

So I went for some consultations at UBS, and here are some numbers about fees:
- 2.2% on each transfer from the fund account to the custody/"depo" account (the one where the stocks etc. are) - this occurs each time > 100 CHF are present on the fund account
- 0.3% per year for maintaining a custody account

(*(from a leaflet) 0.14% administration fee for management of the two accounts - not sure if this is included in the above 0.3%)

In total ~2.5%/year fees I am currently aware of.

One other "issue" might be the length of my stay here - I don't believe it's worth investing in such manner if it's for less than 5-10 years.
I am on an L permit with a contract ending 4/2016. Not sure if I will stay in CH after that.
And there is 30CHF/month fee to maintain an account (if you have <50000CHF on it) when you leave (except for surrounding DE, FR, IT, AT).
Some other banks (e.g. PostFinance) might have better conditions on that.


@Enohzee - I'm guessing one would need to be a UK resident / own a UK account to use HL?
edit: probably - "Any UK resident aged 18 or over (16 for Cash ISAs) can invest..."

Does anyone know of some EU online platforms for funds and such, not related to the country of residence?
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Old 04.02.2015, 14:09
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Re: Investments? Instead of Savings - Ideas

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So I went for some consultations at UBS, and here are some numbers about fees:
- 2.2% on each transfer from the fund account to the custody/"depo" account (the one where the stocks etc. are) - this occurs each time > 100 CHF are present on the fund account
- 0.3% per year for maintaining a custody account

(*(from a leaflet) 0.14% administration fee for management of the two accounts - not sure if this is included in the above 0.3%)

In total ~2.5%/year fees I am currently aware of.

One other "issue" might be the length of my stay here - I don't believe it's worth investing in such manner if it's for less than 5-10 years.
I am on an L permit with a contract ending 4/2016. Not sure if I will stay in CH after that.
And there is 30CHF/month fee to maintain an account (if you have <50000CHF on it) when you leave (except for surrounding DE, FR, IT, AT).
Some other banks (e.g. PostFinance) might have better conditions on that.


@Enohzee - I'm guessing one would need to be a UK resident / own a UK account to use HL?
edit: probably - "Any UK resident aged 18 or over (16 for Cash ISAs) can invest..."

Does anyone know of some EU online platforms for funds and such, not related to the country of residence?
You can't open or add to an ISA when you are overseas but you can have a trading account, no problem. Switzerland doesn't recognise ISAs as tax-free anyway so you would only benefit if you move back to the UK.

Those fees on UBS sound a bit high but I've not looked at them in detail. With hl.co.uk I pay 0.45% per year in any funds plus the 0.7% or whatever annual management fee for the fund (this depends on the fund). No initial charge, exit fee or whatnot. These charges are similar to other platforms.

I just transfer CHF back to the UK and invest from there...it sounds like it'd be a good suggestion for you aswell.

http://www.hl.co.uk/investment-servi...oving-overseas
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Old 04.02.2015, 14:16
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Re: Investments? Instead of Savings - Ideas

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You can't open or add to an ISA when you are overseas but you can have a trading account, no problem. Switzerland doesn't recognise ISAs as tax-free anyway so you would only benefit if you move back to the UK.

Those fees on UBS sound a bit high but I've not looked at them in detail. With hl.co.uk I pay 0.45% per year in any funds plus the 0.7% or whatever annual management fee for the fund (this depends on the fund). No initial charge, exit fee or whatnot. These charges are similar to other platforms.

I just transfer CHF back to the UK and invest from there...it sounds like it'd be a good suggestion for you aswell.

http://www.hl.co.uk/investment-servi...oving-overseas
All good points, but I'm not from UK.
That's why I ask if there is anything similar to HL, independent of the residence (e.g. EU-wide; but of course different tax rules etc. apply depending on the country)
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Old 05.02.2015, 10:47
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Re: Investments? Instead of Savings - Ideas

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All good points, but I'm not from UK.
That's why I ask if there is anything similar to HL, independent of the residence (e.g. EU-wide; but of course different tax rules etc. apply depending on the country)
Good point :P.

That situation is a bit trickier, and to be honest I'm not the best person to ask... You could find a brokerage here in Switzerland to carry out the trades and then manage it from abroad, but not sure how that works without a CH address etc.. but it's not something I've personally done.

I'd say contact a few brokers and see what they can offer for your situation

Based on this http://www.hl.co.uk/investment-servi...go.x=8&go.y=11 you may be able to open an account with a UK provider and manage it from overseas... but best contacting any providers you are interested in
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