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  #21  
Old 19.02.2015, 21:46
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Re: Budget For Family of 4 in Basel

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Oh... Well, now that we know you're not a Brit but are instead from the US.... Just wait. Someone will be around to tell you how you'll never get a bank account.

You might want to preempt that and start reading the finance forum.
Thanks. I must admit that I am worried about this. I have a UK bank account but I started that ten years ago. In truth, I haven't lived in the states since 2004. A friend of mine from the states relocated to Switzerland a few years ago (possibly before FATCA) and started an account with PostFinance. I was going to try with them.
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  #22  
Old 19.02.2015, 21:52
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Re: Budget For Family of 4 in Basel

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Hello,

This is my first post on this forum. I would like to say thank you as the forum has been very helpful in finding information about life for expats in Switzerland. I have a verbal offer for a job in pharma in Basel (waiting on paperwork) and I am trying to calculate a budget for a family of 4 for the area. I have based this on internet searching and this forum, but I would like anyone's opinion if it is roughly accurate or way off, am I forgetting something unique to Basel? We would not own a car, and living in SE England for 10 years we are used to a small house. We would be planning on sending our son (7) to local school and our daughter (2) might go to nursery 1 day a week.
  • Annual Salary: 120K CHF
  • Monthly Salary after deductions (13M) CHF 7,938.00
  • Insurance CHF 1,100.00
  • Groceries CHF 1,200.00
  • Transport CHF 250.00
  • Rent CHF 3,000.00
  • M Phones CHF 100.00
  • Internet+ Landline CHF 160.00
  • Utilities CHF 100.00
  • Clothing CHF 100.00
  • Entertainment CHF 200.00

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Dave
Not that you'd need it, but FYI
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  #23  
Old 19.02.2015, 21:56
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Re: Budget For Family of 4 in Basel

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Not that you'd need it, but FYI
That is brilliant! One thing I've learned as an expat is try to save money. Until you're a permanent resident you never know if you're going to have an expensive relocation in your future.
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  #24  
Old 19.02.2015, 22:05
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Re: Budget For Family of 4 in Basel

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Again, thank you guys. Your advice has given my wife and I some things to discuss, especially regarding having a car and cross border shopping. I was also unaware that there is a child allowance. Is that like child tax credit in the UK?

It is also really comforting to know that there is a friendly forum for expats. I wish there was something like this when I relocated to the UK ten years ago!
Child allowance is just that.. Number various from canton to canton .. For me in VD, 300 per child straight in the bank, nothing complex..

It's back dated to when you arrive in CH.. Your employer here may help with it but you will need documents from UK, proof that you are no longer being paid same in UK. Took months for me a couple of years ago but i got a nice 6k lump sum
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Old 19.02.2015, 22:21
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Re: Budget For Family of 4 in Basel

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Child allowance is just that.. Number various from canton to canton .. For me in VD, 300 per child straight in the bank, nothing complex..

It's back dated to when you arrive in CH.. Your employer here may help with it but you will need documents from UK, proof that you are no longer being paid same in UK. Took months for me a couple of years ago but i got a nice 6k lump sum
OP:

Child allowance BS

Child allowance BL

Call the responsible offices (numbers are on the websites) to get further info also regarding application etc.
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  #26  
Old 19.02.2015, 23:16
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Re: Budget For Family of 4 in Basel

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Child allowance is just that.. Number various from canton to canton .. For me in VD, 300 per child straight in the bank, nothing complex..

It's back dated to when you arrive in CH.. Your employer here may help with it but you will need documents from UK, proof that you are no longer being paid same in UK. Took months for me a couple of years ago but i got a nice 6k lump sum
Chf 230.-- i think you'll find in Vaud
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  #27  
Old 20.02.2015, 01:27
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Re: Budget For Family of 4 in Basel

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Chf 230.-- i think you'll find in Vaud
Ooops .. Figure is based on place of employment, because employer sort of pays, after being paid by state..

I work in GE and live in VD
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  #28  
Old 20.02.2015, 01:54
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Re: Budget For Family of 4 in Basel

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Most Swiss people have cars, and there's a reason for this.


OP, you've been given a lot of pro and con tips about cars and public transport


I think a lot about public tansport depends on the physical constitution of the four of you. If you are generally into being outdoors, you're probably used to walking, already. Good! The children can - step by step, appropriate to their ages - be taught to be responsible for their own luggage (small backpack, coat, hat, gloves) and always to look back before they disembark.


For most of the people I know, what Jern writes is not the case. Many I know do fine with public transport, including all their shopping, for which they either use a granny-trolley to pull home, or they do their shopping online (usually a bit more expensive than the deals you could find if physically in the Shops) at www.leshop.ch or www.coopathome.ch.


The public transport year-card can be combined with an considerably reduced annual membership to the national car-share network called Mobility. Mobility cars are dotted all over the urban parts of the country, and you can hire a car for a matter or hours, or for a day, just on occasion, and this works out to much less money, and much, much less trouble, than bothering to own a car oneself.
https://www.mobility.ch/en/private-c...s/appropriate/
I'm not sure, however, if you are permitted to take a Mobility car over the border.


To buy, or not to buy, a car is not something you need decide within the first month, is it? My tip would be to get here, and crack the code of the public transport system right away. Learn to read the timetables, understand that things are so punctual in Switzerland that the 13h29 trail will be GONE by 13h30, and Get Out There exploring a new area every weekend. Try it out for a month or two, travelling separately and together, with and without children. And then see...

Last edited by doropfiz; 20.02.2015 at 02:16.
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  #29  
Old 20.02.2015, 02:04
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Re: Budget For Family of 4 in Basel

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your clothing budget is extremely tight, unless you have already stocked up for the next few years.

I think this is one of those how-long-is-a-piece-of-string items.



If you (pl.) are prepared to use second-hand clothing, you can definitely manage. Many local cultural or community centres, some schools, some churches, run swap circles or flea-market type sales, particularly of children's clothing, toys and other gear. If you get into the hang of this, you can not only buy your children's clothing there, but also sell things they no longer need.

Depending on your past experience, going for second-hand sound a bit strange, on an income which you do understand is much more than many families have, but hey, why not learn how to practice this kind of economy, so as to be able to pay for ski-passes and the zoo entrance fee.
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Not sure whether your general clothing allowance is enough. Winter boots etc for growing kids can wipe out 100 CHF in one hit.
Up until a decade or so ago, buying in a second-hand shop still had, at least for some, a stigma. Now, however, many people shop in the Brockenhaus (also called Brocki), which, like charity Shops in the UK, can vary considerably in content, quality, etc. Some are even laid out like a smallish department store, and run professionally.

If you and family like to own designer brands, and to own a wider range of clothing specially suitable for each different season or weather condition, for each different formal or informal setting, or even just mood, if you love fashion and take particular pleasure in having the latest, then yes, I agree with ullainga.

Last edited by doropfiz; 20.02.2015 at 02:11. Reason: adding quote from Tom
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  #30  
Old 20.02.2015, 02:26
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Re: Budget For Family of 4 in Basel

If you want to save loads of money on clothes - shop in January and August during the huge sales - and cross the border to do it. As clothes are cheaper outside of CH even outside of sales, you save quite a chunk when shopping during sales. Add the VAT which you can claim if you cross the border again after having bought the clothes, that makes for quite a lot of savings.

You also might want to budget a fixed amount for childcare emergencies.

Do you have pets? If so, also budget an amount for them.

Also, it seems that you forgot to include taxes. As they are pretty high in BS (I don't think it's as bad in BL) you might want to include them into your calculation so as not to be in for a nasty surprise once a year. Tax calculator

IMO even with all expenses included there is no need to worry about not making it financially, you'll be just fine - some people manage with way less.
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  #31  
Old 20.02.2015, 02:29
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Re: Budget For Family of 4 in Basel

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Also ask if you employer has any added goodies like lunch or SBB ticket subsidies, REKA checks, etc.
Also ask your employer about paying for German lessons, for you and (depending on how importantly that employer views spouses and family) perhaps also for them.


I've heard of some employers offering to pay for language courses only once they see the proof. The employee pays the fee to the school, does the homework, practices the language and when the course is over and the improvement in language skills is indisputable to all, then the employer, feeling that it was worthwhile, reimburses the fees to the employee.


Of course, such a thing would need to be put in writing, in advance. And: it could be something you suggest if, at first, you get a flat "no" when you ask for tuition fees.


Some employers have in-house lessons, or access to a sports club which is run in the local language.


If there is no chance at all that your employer will help with this, then it definitely needs to be an item in your budget. I go on and on about this to newcomers in general: every aspect of my integration into Switzerland and everyday life here improved in proportion to the level of competence I'd acquired in German.


Though this Forum is an excellent source of information, and well done for asking your questions here, it'd be a great pity if you and family came over here, and then found your social contacts only with others who speak English (for example, only other English Forum members).


It's a very good decision to put your children in local goverment German-speaking schools! Since I feel I'm now writing not just to you but to your wife, too, as you're discussing things, I'd like to encourage you both to try to offer yourselves, as you do your children, the same good chance at integrating, so that you can, as time passes, easily manage to spend parts of your social lives not just in an ex-pat bubble, but with local people.
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  #32  
Old 20.02.2015, 09:47
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Re: Budget For Family of 4 in Basel

Hi OP
As others have said you have made a fairly reasonable assessment of your potential outgoings.

Transport will definitely cost more. I am sure you will occasionally end up using car rental or Mobility car sharing.

Not sure you got the tax and other deductions (social security etc.) quite right.
This site gives a reasonable estimate of the deductions from your payslip.

Creche for one day a week will be upto about 400 CHF per month.
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  #33  
Old 20.02.2015, 10:31
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Re: Budget For Family of 4 in Basel

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What @dodgyken said. Public transport is very good, but it does start to become offputtingly expensive if there is more than one of you. A day in the mountains can set you back over CHF100 in train tickets, and that's before you've paid for the cable car etc.

Most Swiss people have cars, and there's a reason for this.
Indeed, but it depends on where you live and where you need to go.

If you don't live in or near a city, then you would be better off with a car or two. We have two (but only one plate), my daughter and her boyfriend have two (they live in the boonies near Grenchen).

When I lived in ZH I didn't have one (but I had a motorcycle, and rented a car a few times a year).

Tom
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  #34  
Old 20.02.2015, 10:39
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Re: Budget For Family of 4 in Basel

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Indeed, but it depends on where you live and where you need to go.

If you don't live in or near a city, then you would be better off with a car or two. We have two (but only one plate), my daughter and her boyfriend have two (they live in the boonies near Grenchen).

When I lived in ZH I didn't have one (but I had a motorcycle, and rented a car a few times a year).

Tom
Absolutely and I certainly wouldn't recommend one if you believe the vast majority of your travel will be on public transport and you are comfortable with "local" shopping.

The major advantage I see for now owning a car (especially near Basel) - is the ability to live in a cheaper location and shop more easily in France and Germany.
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  #35  
Old 20.02.2015, 10:45
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Re: Budget For Family of 4 in Basel

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Indeed, but it depends on where you live and where you need to go.

If you don't live in or near a city, then you would be better off with a car or two. We have two (but only one plate), my daughter and her boyfriend have two (they live in the boonies near Grenchen).

When I lived in ZH I didn't have one (but I had a motorcycle, and rented a car a few times a year).

Tom
I agree. We have two because although there is public transport here it's not always convenient time wise. OH would need to take two buses and a tram to get to and from work and would take about 45 minutes compared to 10 minutes in the car.
I need a car because I have irregular hours and need to be in different places at different times of the day.

We chose to live outside the city and the benefits by far outweigh the disadvantages IMO. If we lived in Zurich or Geneva then we would probably use public transport much more and would only have one car. I'm not sure we would ever have chosen not to have a car as we like the freedom it brings for holidays, weekends away, day trips etc with a family. I'd say a car is less important for young couples or single people.

Last edited by Belgianmum; 20.02.2015 at 11:55.
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  #36  
Old 20.02.2015, 11:27
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Re: Budget For Family of 4 in Basel

I cycle nearly everywhere - even take the trailer for the big family shop. But then it is nice and flat round here, so cycling is actually a pleasure. Meanwhile, the roadworthy car just sits and ponders most of the time. The other car is waiting for an engine overhaul, but it may have to wait a little longer until I can find time.
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  #37  
Old 20.02.2015, 12:07
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Re: Budget For Family of 4 in Basel

Oh, yes, a bicycle is good. Many people here use bicycles not just for sport but as serious transport, as Jern says, with a trailer, for shopping and the kind for transporting the children, until they can cycle themselves.

Some commuters have two junky bikes, the kind they wouldn't weep about if they got stolen, locked at either end of their public transport route. Cycle from home to the nearest stop or station, lock up bike. Take train/tram/bus to nearest stop or station to work. Unlock your own waiting bike. Cycle to work. I know an executive who lives in Zurich and works in Basel, and he has such an old bike parked in each city. For his own cycling sport, though, he does have the real deal, with proper gearing, comfortable saddle, etc.

Such bikes are known as "Bahnhofvelo" which means "station bicycle" and are typically - and need to be, so they are less likely to get stolen - old, rattly, no fancy gears or brakes, but they shorten the commute by those extra minutes on either end of the public transport commute. It seems to me that the old-fashioned "lady's bicycle" counts as particularly unattractive and is especially unlikely to ever get stolen.
https://www.google.ch/search?q=bahnh...ih=628&dpr=1.3
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  #38  
Old 20.02.2015, 13:07
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Re: Budget For Family of 4 in Basel

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Hi OP

Not sure you got the tax and other deductions (social security etc.) quite right.
This site gives a reasonable estimate of the deductions from your payslip.

Creche for one day a week will be upto about 400 CHF per month.
I made the monthly take home calculation from this site
https://www.ethz.ch/en/the-eth-zuric...alculator.html

I tried the Lohncomputer calculator and it seemed to make automatic deductions for health insurance.

Based on all of your input (which again, is greatly appreciated), I have updated the budget as follows

The following assumptions are made.
  1. We will live in Basel-stadt
  2. we will not own a car at first
  3. we will purchase expensive food stuffs and non perishable items over the border - First purchase may be a decent sized freezer.
  • Monthly Salary after deductions CHF 7,938.00
  • Child Allowance CHF 400.00
  • Insurance CHF 900.00
  • Groceries CHF 1,500.00
  • Daily Commute (public transport to Work) CHF 125.00
  • Family Transport CHF 400.00
  • Billag CHF 40.00
  • Rent CHF 3,000.00
  • Phones CHF 100.00
  • Internet CHF 160.00
  • Utilities CHF 100.00
  • Clothing CHF 200.00
  • Entertainment CHF 300.00

This budget still leaves a considerable amount at the end of the month, so I think even once the variables (language courses, creche) are finalized we will be pretty comfortable.

Again, I can not thank you all enough for your advice. I think we have a much better grasp on the situation. Regarding integrating, the company does provide in house language lessons and I will pay for private tuition for my wife (not included in budget as not sure of cost yet). The big driver for this move is the job and the opportunity to expose our kids (and us) to a different culture and language. Integration is one of our first priorities. It does take time though, so it is good to know that there is also a healthy expat community that should allow us to have a good mix of local and expat friends.

Thank you all again, and I hope this thread can be of some help to others as I think my family/compensation situation is not uncommon for expats in Basel.
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Old 20.02.2015, 13:33
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Re: Budget For Family of 4 in Basel

One other small question. In England we have village/town markets that often offer good quality fruit and veg at lower prices than the super market. Do they have those in Basel or are the markets over-priced?
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Old 20.02.2015, 13:41
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Re: Budget For Family of 4 in Basel

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One other small question. In England we have village/town markets that often offer good quality fruit and veg at lower prices than the super market. Do they have those in Basel or are the markets over-priced?
I don't know about Basel but the ones around here are good quality, good value for money really nice fresh produce. Not overpriced at all.
I believe there is a very good market over the border in St Louis ( France) on Saturday mornings.
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