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Old 15.10.2016, 23:01
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Re: US-CH citizen: tax compliance and renounce vs. relinquish US citizenship

No, dual from birth doesn't count as a relinquishment. There has to be intention to lose citizenship. You can't do that if you're dual from birth.

Here are the ways you can relinquish/renounce your citizenship:

Potentially Expatriating Acts

Section 349 of the INA (8 U.S.C. 1481), as amended, states that U.S. nationals are subject to loss of nationality if they perform certain specified acts voluntarily and with the intention to relinquish U.S. nationality. Briefly stated, these acts include:
1.obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon one's own application after the age of 18 (Sec. 349 (a) (1) INA);
2.taking an oath, affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or its political subdivisions after the age of 18 (Sec. 349 (a) (2) INA);
3.entering or serving in the armed forces of a foreign state engaged in hostilities against the United States or serving as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer in the armed forces of a foreign state (Sec. 349 (a) (3) INA);
4.accepting employment with a foreign government after the age of 18 if (a) one has the nationality of that foreign state or (b) an oath or declaration of allegiance is required in accepting the position (Sec. 349 (a) (4) INA);
5.formally renouncing U.S. nationality before a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer outside the United States (sec. 349 (a) (5) INA);
6.formally renouncing U.S. nationality within the United States (The Department of Homeland Security is responsible for implementing this section of the law) (Sec. 349 (a) (6) INA);
7.conviction for an act of treason against the Government of the United States or for attempting to force to overthrow the Government of the United States (Sec. 349 (a) (7) INA).

https://travel.state.gov/content/tra...tionality.html

Number 5 is the renunciation, the rest are considered relinqishments. If done without the intent to lose citizenship then it isn't lost, but if you do it with intent then that is grounds for applying for a relinquishment. Some people, when applying for a second citizenship will prepare a document for the person overseeing their oath taking to sign to say they did it with the intent to lose their US citizenship.

For a relinquishment you'd be asked to fill in the following form to help the embassy/consulate staff decide whether or not you have done so. Unfortunately, it's more designed to help those people who may have committed an expatriating act without intending to lose their citizenship rather than for those who do intend to so.

https://eforms.state.gov/editdocumen...documentid=240

Here is an example from Isaac Brock Society's website of the intent to relinquish by gaining another citizenship:

http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2011/12/...ce-if-you-can/

But unless you've done one or more of the other 6 possibilities you can't relinquish, you can only renounce.
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Old 16.10.2016, 09:27
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Re: US-CH citizen: tax compliance and renounce vs. relinquish US citizenship

Quote:
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No, dual from birth doesn't count as a relinquishment. There has to be intention to lose citizenship. You can't do that if you're dual from birth.

Here are the ways you can relinquish/renounce your citizenship:

Potentially Expatriating Acts

Section 349 of the INA (8 U.S.C. 1481), as amended, states that U.S. nationals are subject to loss of nationality if they perform certain specified acts voluntarily and with the intention to relinquish U.S. nationality. Briefly stated, these acts include:
1.obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon one's own application after the age of 18 (Sec. 349 (a) (1) INA);
2.taking an oath, affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or its political subdivisions after the age of 18 (Sec. 349 (a) (2) INA);
3.entering or serving in the armed forces of a foreign state engaged in hostilities against the United States or serving as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer in the armed forces of a foreign state (Sec. 349 (a) (3) INA);
4.accepting employment with a foreign government after the age of 18 if (a) one has the nationality of that foreign state or (b) an oath or declaration of allegiance is required in accepting the position (Sec. 349 (a) (4) INA);
5.formally renouncing U.S. nationality before a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer outside the United States (sec. 349 (a) (5) INA);
6.formally renouncing U.S. nationality within the United States (The Department of Homeland Security is responsible for implementing this section of the law) (Sec. 349 (a) (6) INA);
7.conviction for an act of treason against the Government of the United States or for attempting to force to overthrow the Government of the United States (Sec. 349 (a) (7) INA).

https://travel.state.gov/content/tra...tionality.html

Number 5 is the renunciation, the rest are considered relinqishments. If done without the intent to lose citizenship then it isn't lost, but if you do it with intent then that is grounds for applying for a relinquishment. Some people, when applying for a second citizenship will prepare a document for the person overseeing their oath taking to sign to say they did it with the intent to lose their US citizenship.

For a relinquishment you'd be asked to fill in the following form to help the embassy/consulate staff decide whether or not you have done so. Unfortunately, it's more designed to help those people who may have committed an expatriating act without intending to lose their citizenship rather than for those who do intend to so.

https://eforms.state.gov/editdocumen...documentid=240

Here is an example from Isaac Brock Society's website of the intent to relinquish by gaining another citizenship:

http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2011/12/...ce-if-you-can/

But unless you've done one or more of the other 6 possibilities you can't relinquish, you can only renounce.
Thank you Medea! (where is the thank you button ?? Newbie..)
- Would marrying a Swiss citizen (one year ago) and completing a Swiss citizenship class count as "intent"? I have a document proving I attended the class but have not yet started the process of citizenship request, although I do qualify (Permit C). I was hoping to ask for it after three years of marriage, which is a simpler and cheaper process.
- Also: I've read somewhere that renouncing would "raise flags" ask to one's motives (although I would be filing before to catch up; and after to exit the system)... Just rumors?
- Any idea what the renounciation waiting time is in Bern?
Thank you and have a lovely Sunday!
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  #83  
Old 16.10.2016, 10:30
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
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Re: US-CH citizen: tax compliance and renounce vs. relinquish US citizenship

Gaining Swiss citizenship will, marriage and the class don't. Under 1 in the list you have to obtain a new citizenship, that is the expatriating act.

So you have two choices: start filing tax returns while you wait to enter the process to gain Swiss citizenship and then relinquish when you're able to or renounce now and do the necessary filing. If you wait to relinquish then that means you'd be up to date with your filings if you use Streamlined when you do get an appointment at the embassy, but it also means you'll be in the system for at least 3 years - 2 while you wait to apply for the citizenship and probably another year while the process is completed then you apply for the relinquishment. So it depends on how quickly you want to shed your citizenship. Also be careful about joint accounts, if you have these your spouse is going to have to file too. Keep everything separate until you shed the US citizenship.

Renouncing needs no reasons to be given (well relinquishment doesn't either really, but they sometimes ask - just say you want to simplify your life). It's your right under the US Constitution to renounce and you don't have to tell anyone why you're doing it. The page from the Bern embassy has more info:

https://bern.usembassy.gov/service/renunciation.html

There is also a PDF link which contains more info and also the various forms for a renunciation/relinquishment. They say they are scheduling appointments approximately 2 weeks in advance on a first come, first served basis.

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  #84  
Old 16.10.2016, 17:05
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Re: US-CH citizen: tax compliance and renounce vs. relinquish US citizenship

Thank you Medea, your comments are very useful and have helped me finalize my decision. I see others on the blog have thanked you for me
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  #85  
Old 16.10.2016, 17:32
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
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Re: US-CH citizen: tax compliance and renounce vs. relinquish US citizenship

You're welcome and let us know how it goes. Reports of how long it takes to get an appointment, attitude of the consular staff, etc, all help for those who may follow you down the path of renunciation/relinquishment. I found the staff at Bern very helpful when I was going through the process.
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